General Anti-Camping Mechanic
I was thinking about how true camping in general could be addressed without depriving certain killers of their defining features.
One thing that came to mind (apologies if others have thought of this before, it seems pretty logical) would be to increase gen speeds if a killer remains to close to a hooked survivor beyond a certain time limit.
I know that the basic mechanic is already employed with Pyramid Head's cages; if you camp a cage, it moves, so we know that the game can at least recognize this.
The issue then becomes the sophistication of it - what is the radius? If it's too large, killers will be punished for chasing other survs in the area, or for defending against hook bombing. Id the gen speed buffs are too high, this could be really punitive for killers. My proposal would be something like this (not stressing the numbers/details, just the basic mechanics):
If the killer remains within 5 meters of a hooked survivor for more than 5 seconds, repair speeds increase to 200% for as long as the killer remains within that radius.
For 10 secs or more within 10 meters, 150%. 20 secs or more within 20 meters, 125%. Something like that. Again, the speed buffs would revert to base (or the designated rate) at or within a couple seconds of the killer leaving each radius.
This may seem steep, but realistically speaking, the only non-camping reason a killer would have to remain that close to a hooked survivor is because one or more survivors have moved in for the save, in which case they aren't doing gens, and the repair speed buff isn't going to be as damaging, since they would revert when/if the chase moved the killer away.
But for a true camper, they can be made to pay a massive toll for face camping, and killers like Bubba can still make altruistic teams pay. And yeah, with Bubba you could still essential guarantee a 1K by face camping, but at 200% repair speed you'd know almost for certain that the other three could clear all the gens and leave while you do.
Like tunneling, I think if a killer is determined to do camp someone out, even if it means throwing the game, there really isn't anything in game that can be done to fully prevent it. But you can make it a virtual certainty (depending on the team's actions) that you will get ONLY 1K.
Not perfect, but maybe a framework for something workable?
Comments
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Sorry but a lot have thought of this before.
And it does not work because SWF are in the game.
A lot of things don´t work because SWF are in the game.
And not every killer wants to do it but sees no other choice. Also every killer can play the game like he wants to. And camping or tunneling is a part of the game.
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I get that, but discouraging camping isn't preventing anyone from camping, just making it a riskier strategy. A nice healthy disincentive wouldn't be the worst thing here.
I absolutely recognize the right of anyone who bought the game to play it in the way they see fit, but when you spend 10+ minutes in queue only to be face camped out in 5 or less, that isn't fun, or healthy for the game. There's that old old saying about the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few and all that. Basement/Camping Bubba, the most noteworthy exemplar here, is really bad for game health, especially at low MMR where new players are. It the ability to play that way shouldn't be removed, but it should come with an enhanced cost; some risk/reward balance should be maintained.
If I were in a SWF and were Bubba's campee, I would gladly tell my team to leave me, that I would hang on (no pun intended) for as long as I could, and to just pound out the gens and only let the killer get the 1K. And if everyone did that with campers, camping would almost certainly decline naturally, because only getting 1K and 10K BP every match would suck.
In solo, where most people play, camping really sucks, and there is really not much in the way of a disincentive for the killer, since they often don't know a camp is occurring until it is too late.
Maybe make Kindred basekit, as so many have suggested.
I also don't see how SWF would negate the above suggestion, but I may be missing something obvious here.
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SWF (can and often do) abuse everything which would be fine for solo players.
Therfore you can´t boost other things.
The queue times are a problem because a lot of killer players leave. And the needs of a few killer players matter much, as we are not in Star Trek and they just don´t play if they get constantly bullied by SWF groups or outplayed by Perks all the time. Not always of course but sometimes.
The balance problem is old but hard to solve at the moment.
Killers are too strong for newer players and weak for SWF or pros in general.
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Camping is riskier as is, if you are fine with one person dying, so is camping.
Punishing killers DOES NOT work because other side of players abuse everything they have to take advantage.
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Literally been tried before and didn't work, got abused from the moment it dropped. You're not going to fix camping with the stick, you gotta use the carrot. This means making killers better at finding survivors to chase and chasing them successfully. This means tweaks to the killer's basekit features, and tweaks for individual killer powers that are underperforming at the chase/patrol game.
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Just remove hook grabs. I agree that suggestions in the vein of OP’s are abuseable. Hook grabs incentivizes camping because two health states can be removed where survivors are at their most vulnerable.
Even Camping Cannibals go for hook grabs.
If it takes two hits to down, near a hook or not, killers will be more inclined to actually chase a player since the advantage is reduced.
The fun of this game is the chases. I think this is the move to bring it back to chases.
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20 meters is way too big of a radius.
If I’m defending a generator 20 meters from the hook that is actively being worked on/I’m pushing that player off the gen, am I really camping?
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Like I said, I wasn't caught up on the numbers in my proposal, but the mechanic itself. The distances/rates were placeholder variables in my model.
But since you mentioned it, a skilled high mobility killer might be able to proxy camp at 20 meters, but in my brain the penalty at that distance would be much smaller. 10 meters or less would be the pain point.
But many have pointed out that this has been tried and failed, so I am not really promoting it at this point.
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I don't think its so much about risk vs reward as much as it is to prevent it from being abusable. Adding 200% generator progression speed just makes strategy not viable. It might as well read as "I resign game as killer".
One of comments that developer said in 4th year anniversary when in regards to Keys and Mori is that they said they wanted to make mori's base-kit towards gameplay of the killer. Someone can find clip of this in 4th year anniversary stream but I vividly remember this remark.
A possible version of base-kit mori could be that survivors no longer have hook states and instead the killer gets a mori every time he hooks 3 survivors. It doesn't matter who it is, but on 4th down, the killer can mori a single survivor.
So for example
3 hooks = 1 mori token ->4th down is a mori
6 hooks = 2 mori tokens ->7th down is 2nd mori(The game effectively ends here)
When two survivors are alive, The killer gains ability to unlimited Mori and survivor that is hooked will immediately be sacrificed. In this version of the game, there are no hook timers and no hook states. This could be one way to fix camping hooks.
The killer would be more encouraged to for hooks because standing at hook yields no real rewards and the survivors do not really have any time pressure in regards to saving teammates off hooks. Survivors would have to focus more on winning the chases against killer and prevent themselves from getting hooked to avoid the mori
Obviously, all forms of mori offering would disappear as Mori have become base-kit to the killer.
They would need rework two perks though for this system to work namely these two perks:
Monstrous Shrine and Devour hope.
Monstrous shrine is probably the most useless perk in the entire game. Devour hope can still be gains speed boost after hooking and expose after 3 hooks. Just mori aspect would be redundant with this system.
The only con I can see in this system is that the game for survivor would become more team-based because your success and failure would rely a lot of your teammates to be good at the chase against the killer. This can be either really good or really bad depending on your view on team games.
If the team-aspect of the game is too frustrating for survivor, a possible modification to the system can be that you can only get mori if you've been hooked once, though this does promote the killer tunneling survivors that the killer has hooked.
This is just rough sketch Idea of a possible solution to make the less hook timer dependant and more chase-hook centered.
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Yeah that is camping. It's proxy camping but it's still camping. But that style of play is exactly why survivors run DS/BT and use flashy bois. So you can't get upset with them using a legit strategy to counter your legit strategy.
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Then remove coll down between hits or make it super short because without grabs there is nothing that stops them. From just running up to the hook unhook and DH away
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