Blight players are good, but they are all the same
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Well let me tell you from my experience I see that combo on basically every Blight I come across
It's either Vial/Crow, Vial/rat or double movement speed addon
I'll see the ring/the ultra rare from time to time but yeah
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It may just be that my MMR for survivor isn't high enough to run into those builds. I still stand by the statement that the Vial add-on has more counter-play than non-vial.
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Do you mind explaining the counterplay to a killer who moves so fast you barely have a window to react to them?
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The vial reduces the turn radius substantially. You can dodge the attack like you would dodge a hatchet throw or a Billy's chainsaw. This works best in an open area like a field. Alternatively you can hug objects like rocks where he can't navigate as easily. Again all of these are much easier to achieve with Adrenaline Vial than without.
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You aren't supposed to. You're supposed to mindgame it.
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"You aren't supposed to"
So you're saying it has no counterplay?
How do you mindgame something that moves that fast then?
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The counterplay IS mindgaming it. Make a read what the Blight is going to do and place yourself not in his way. You guess right, you dodge it. You don't, you get hit.
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A blight has to commit to an action, once he's committed than that Blight is limited in what he can do. (This is more true for the Vial and less true for a blight running the turning add-ons) The better the Blight the more confident they are in their reads, which is why good blights can run the vial and bad blights cannot. What SuzuKR is saying is to bait the Blight into rushing and committing to the wrong thing. This can be done by faking vaults, using dead hard, pretending to jump from a ledge, etc.
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Isn't this just a repeat of what people said about old spirit then?
I don't get it
A blight has to commit to an action, an action that he has multiple ways of making up for/correcting if he makes a mistake. Especially with the vial which gives him more tokens and makes them regenerate faster.
If the only legitimate counterplay to something moving this quickly is 'mindgame' then there's a problem.
You fake a vault, he corrects and hits you anyway because his hitbox is very generous
You use dead hard, congratulations - you're using one of the only perks that helps against the strongest killers in this game. You're also using the most universally complained about perk in the game
These are not actual ways to counterplay Blights, especially Blights that move so fast, can hit you around corners and so on.
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Don't misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the Blight is fair or balanced, I was answering the questions that you asked, which appear to be in bad faith. The reason that I run no slowdown on Blight is precisely because I don't feel he is balanced and to give the survivors some ability to win.
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There's no bad faith here, I'm just giving my perspective on your responses/what you consider to be counterplay to this and give you the reasons why I think these addons need to be changed. That's all
My intial point was the addons leave very little room for reaction
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No, cause you have all of the information about what the Blight is doing, which old Spirit didn't give. You had no clue if Spirit was phasing, when she was phasing, and where she was phasing. Blight gives multiple indicators of all actions, especially at ranges that close (eg, at a tile mid-chase). You can hear him slam, you can hear him if he decides to burn multiple Rushes to speed up his last 1-2 (if he's using speed add-ons), you can hear how many slams he already used up, you can hear where his Rushes take him, you can hear what side of a wall or surface the Blight is on, and if you have LOS on him, you can see him as well and deduce places he cannot reach from his current location with his left-over bounces based off the surrounding tile objects and environmental debris.
For instance, let's take an LT wall. You are running around the L. Your (main two) options are to either take the fast vault on the L, or veer off and head towards the T. If you think the Blight is going to go for a hug around the L, you turn the corner, break LOS, and then split off towards the T. If you think Blight will use bump logic to go for the T, you take the fast vault back around the L. If the Blight is using up multiple Rushes to accelerate himself, then you only have 1-2 potential Rushes to even have to dodge, and you can just put yourself in a position he can't comfortably access you from if he doesn't commit to a side. For example, if you've seen the Blight player consistently tries to go for the accelerated last 1-2 Rushes and you think this newest attempt isn't a feint, there's no reason to commit to a side for the first few slams. Just stay by the place you cut off his LOS and then veer off before he goes for his actual committed Rush. Him preparatory-slamming takes up time that you can use to reposition yourself if necessary as well, and if he misses, it means he's on a hefty 10-second downtime where he has literally zero power.
Mindgaming is the most skillful method of chase in this entire game, especially the closer it gets to a 50/50. Chases should be determined off player skill versus player skill, not the tile/mechanical limitations. Pay attention to your surroundings, learn how Blight bump logic works, get a grasp on how the Blight player tends to play, be unpredictable, cut off LOS, and make and fake mindgame reads. There are points on every standard non-junkloop (ie, random oval with pallet) tile you can force said mindgame. Eg, with the LT. To hit you in time if you do go for the fast vault on the L, he has to start the swing the moment he turns the corner. That drastically reduces his movespeed momentum since he's going from his Rush into a swing, and by extension, his attack range. Even if he flicks and adjusts, if you already pre-emptively left for the T wall instead, he is literally incapable of reaching you, distance-wise. Conversely, if he expected you to fake the vault and go for the T so he Rushes that way but you already vaulted, he is physically incapable of reaching you in time.
Using up slams at the start with speed add-ons is one of those high-risk high-reward gambles. You shorten the time window significantly, but in return, you are gambling with a 10s cooldown of having zero power which is major against good survivors, and that the entire gamble hinges on you landing the hit within only 1-2 Rushes actually used for navigation/to go for the swing.
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When I compared it to old spirit logic, I was referring to the whole "guess right you don't get hit" way you described it. That is essentially what people described old spirit as. A guessing game and a not very enjoyable one either
I appreciate the in-depth analysis of how you would ideally play against a Blight on a certain tile. It often feels like a lot of the time when you try to run tiles against movement speed addon Blights you're going to get hit regardless if you run the tile well or not due to how many rushes he has and how fast he moves.
I agree that mindgaming is a big part of skill in this game but I also find it difficult to mindgame a killer who is moving too fast to even react to. Like what you're saying about running the L wall T wall makes complete sense in theory but I would argue it is a lot harder than you make it seem to be in practice.
Nevertheless thank you for the detailed response, I'll try to keep it in mind the next time I'm up against a Blight and see if it is any help.
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Every single tile and loop outside of things like just big oval/pile of debris with pallet is mindgameable, and assuming both sides are fairly decent at the game (aka, know how to run any given tile correctly), the only way to shorten the chase is to mindgame. This isn't a Blight-specific thing. The reason Blight is good design is precisely because it's as close to 50-50 odds as possible. Weaker killers inherently hit a ceiling, because they have multiple mechanical limitations, meaning the mindgame starts incredibly slanted not in their favor for strong tiles. For instance, there is no good way to mindgame a long-wall jungle gym as a standard M1. Basically the only possible way to deal with that tile is to either give up the chase, or brute force it (which takes forever with how strong the tile is, especially if it's connected to others). You could argue that's not exactly enjoyable either. It doesn't matter what mindgames you make, basically none of them work there because there's too many options for the survivor and very few for the M1 to reduce their options with.
Conversely, someone like Blight has equally good odds of landing a hit as the survivor does of avoiding it. It's not "I lose this entire chase (or have to spend a huge amount of time to brute force it) because I'm at this tile and there is a glass ceiling to the extent of what this killer is mechanically capable of", it's "I win or lose this trade because I correctly or incorrectly mindgamed/read the opponent". Does that make sense? Same with the LT example. A standard M1 has options of double backing here and there to catch out the survivor, and survivor has to make the correct read in what the killer will try and do.
Obviously, it's easier said than done, but that's the gist of mindgames in the first place. You have to constantly adapt to how your opponent is playing. For instance, as the Blight player, if a player tends to fake vaults alot, I'd play with the idea they'd probably continue to do so. Likewise, as the survivor, if they try and go for sliding way more than bump logic, I know I can peel off most loops and be completely out of their range. So, as both, I switch up how I'd play as/against them, so they have no consistent basis to work off of. That is why it's skill-defining. What do you think the opponent will do? Can you bait/pressure them into making the wrong read? Can you guess how they will try and counter that read? So on and so forth.
For instance, if as the survivor, I'm super inconsistent about when I take/fake vaults, when I hold W/double back/etc whenever I cut off lines of sight, etc, the Blight is not going to have any guaranteed guess of what I do. But I can also use that against them. I set up a false queue, like a certain visual/movement/habit I'd do if I'm about to fake, and then do that when I actually commit later, when they're looking out for all those ways to make the correct read on me. For instance, if I want to commit to a vault, I'll usually be hugging a loop as tight as I can. I do that, I break LOS, and then I immediately split completely off from the loop. The Blight slides around it, and then realizes I'm not there. Stuff like that. Mindgames aren't about reaction, they're about prediction. For instance with Nurse, if a survivor is looking behind them, it is a cue they'll try and double back - maybe. But will they actually do so? Who knows, you'll have to guess and see. Likewise, running without looking back, and then doubling last second to throw off that same cue. So on and so forth.
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What? I faced Blight's that were actually good and that don't run meta perks, or even that only run two perks (Mostly being BBQ and NOED, wich I don't mind tbh) and when I see that they were playing like that Im like "oh, it didn't have speed addons? wow, he actually played so well that I though he had!" or "Well, at least he's not running slowdown perks...I respect that".
But you want me to be in the end game chat things like "oh my god, you played super well Mr.Blight player! <333"? No, I just say "ggwp" and then I left. I don't get those comments neither when I played with "bad" builds with no slowdown with killer, or when I don't run meta perks when Im a survivor, and I don't believe that a ton of people do same.
In fact, once when I played killer I asked the survivors if they were swf, and when all of them said no I then put "Oh! you all played so well that I though you were a swf!" and I recieve a "nah, we're all alone, you're just bad". So when Im even going out of my way to say positive things about the other side I just recieve insults, so don't talk when you literally know nothing
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