No Mither Rework
The perk is currently just unbreakable with a bad Iron Will. Of course it is possible to get up more often with soul guard (without being downed straight away) but no killer in the world will let you slug a second time afterwards. The perk's stealth ability from removing the pools of blood is useless due to the grunts of pain still present (other than that, it's called No Mither not a bit of mither).
On top of that, the status effect & the scratches in the HUD are already screaming for you to get to the first hook of the game.
I feel there are far too few benefits to this perk for the disadvantage to justify it. Especially in a meta where everyone uses Second Chance Perks.
No matter what you vote for, please leave a reason, I would love to see a discussion about this perk.
No Mither Rework 24 votes
16 votes
8 votes
Comments
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No, the perk is fine the way it is.
I think it's fine. It's supposed to be a high risk, high reward perk.
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Yes, I agree.
What is the high reward? The nonexistent pools of blood are useless without a complete reduction in grunts of pain and being able to recover (faster) from the dying state is also useless due to Unbreakable & Soul Guard. What high reward does one get from being downed in one-hit? I don't quite see it yet.
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Yes, I agree.
I've said this loads of times before, but I'll say it again:
"The hard mode" perk is really just an excuse to have a poorly designed perk. We called it out back then when the chapter was released, but the devs more or less ignored the community. Instead, the devs pushed the idea that it was a "hard mode perk" and nothing but for so long for years and years that players actually started to believe it, especially the new ones.
And let me be clear, I don't doubt that the idea of it providing a more challenging experience was a part of the conversation in the original design. It was probably at least in some part, a part of the design philosophy. I will say however, that I do think it was never meant to be a pure unadulterated hard-mode perk and absolutely nothing more. If that were true, why were any positive effects included at all to begin with?
If "hard mode" perks were a genuine thing, how come Killers don't have an equivalent? Something that absolutely neuters their overall gameplay and imposes a ridiculous challenge on them in exchange for little to no benefit. The fact is, it doesn't exist because it's just not popular in any shape or form.
No Mither comes from a time when the dev team were trying to make perks with interesting give-and-take mechanics a thing; but the truth is they were largely ignored and the overall community just didn't accept these versions of perks as anything good or worthwhile to run. Opting instead to favor alternatives which didn't suffer from any downsides, and so for the most part the devs stopped releasing perks of this vein and reworked a bunch of the previous ones they already had. Few exist today, especially by comparison to the number of perks that only provide a positive effect, and of the few that exist many still go unused today and could probably use reworks of their own. IE Sole Survivor, Self-Preservation, Left Behind, etc.
From the beginning No Mither should have always started you out at full health and hidden your Broken Status effect in the HUD from the killer. It still wouldn't be good, but at least you'd actually get to use the perk for what it was originally intended for. The idea of a high-risk high reward perk might actually be somewhat acceptable, because there'd actually be a realistically usable "reward" for running the perk.
Post edited by Seiko300 on4 -
Yes, I agree.
It should be deleted. Anti loop killers love this perk
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"If "hard mode" perks were a genuine thing, how come Killers don't have an equivalent? Something that absolutely neuters their overall gameplay and imposes a ridiculous challenge on them in exchange for little to no benefit. The fact is, it doesn't exist because it's just not popular in any shape or form."
They do. Most killers have one or more addons that are just straight downgrade to their power, or have such major downsides that completley outweigh the upsides. In fact, those are even worse since the Killer will keep on getting them in the bloodweb forever, while No Mither you just buy 3 times then it is gone.
Also, Hexes qualify to some extent. Hex are nowhere near strong enough to justify the gamble of them just being destroyed 15 seconds into the match because it spawned in a terrible spot in plain sight of survivors.
I agree that No Mither should start you off as healthy though. Hell, give the user bonus bloodpoints if you escape with it too.
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Yes, I agree.
I’m with Scott Jund on this and just make it to where you have to get hit for No Mither to be revealed
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Yes, I agree.
I agree with that.
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Yes, I agree.
I honestly don't know why this perk hasn't gotten looked at.
Not only does it not do much for the core experience of the game itself, but it fails to fulfill the niche that it initially sets out to accommodate.
One the meta hand, it's a perk that permanently steals an entire health state away from the player. At the very beginning of the match, the killer can mark them for death and focus them as an easy out. While other survivors can, on average, force the killer to pay for 6 health states (with the ability to go endlessly higher than this) - No Mither is locked at a hard 3 health states. It isn't simply non-viable. It's insanity to bring. If a survivor ever escapes with it, it's because the killer took pity on them - or they got incredibly lucky. There is no 'No Mither' player that outplays the killer at any point and runs them for several generators.
On the other hand, the developers themselves claim this to be 'hard mode'. But let's take a look at what it does. It marks you for death, limits your chasing potential, and makes you a primary hook priority. Some people misunderstand the 'get back up forever' benefit - thinking it is a failed concept, when it truly works as intended. No killer will ever slug you with the perk, they will always hook you. To understand what the devs meant by 'hard mode' - you have to ask yourself, what is so 'hard' about the game that separates the good players form the noobs? Back in 2016, the developers believed that this was STEALTH. Having reduced groans of pain and leaving no blood pools meant that stealth was a viable option. However, leaving scratch marks and taking chases was certain death. This means that No Mither is a stealth perk that is certain death if you are found out. However, in 2022 - we know things to be much different. The 'Good' players are able to take numerous hits and stretch out chases while efficiently trading health states to force the killer to pay for each and every ounce of momentum they earn. In this case - where No Mither used to be 'hard mode' in concept because it made the ideal stealth game a lot more challenging, now it is simply an albatross of destruction that has no true benefit. While stealth can be an option, it is simply not viable in the game at its current state.
While it can be argued that the poor design choices make No Mither a 'hard mode' perk due to its oppressively nature - ideally, it would still reward players for playing the game 'the hard way' and contribute to winning games by making bold plays and perhaps allowing players to consistently be at a greater disadvantage, while harboring benefits that allow them to play the meta better, which may put them into greater danger. The original concept was 'Hide better, die faster' - you can trade the 'hide better' and still have a perk.
The fact that the team hasn't rolled out a rework is disappointing because it has such great opportunity. Especially when it could be made to synergize with other perks as well.
Here are 4 suggestions off the top of my head; a simple Rework addition | A Major Rework | A Simple Overhaul |and an Major Overhaul:
Simple Rework:
While broken, taking a protection hit instead applies deep wounds.
(Pro - Very strong in very particular situations, which reward players for bringing high risk perks that afflict the broken status, while also providing counters to certain killer builds and items | Con - Potentially useless perk slot, 'Hard mode')
Major Rework:
You are constantly Exposed. While injured, recover from Exhaustion while running.
(Pro - Not marked from death at the onset and encourages players NOT to heal after being unhooked, or damaged through indirect means. Getting strong exhaustion perks back mid-chase while injured is a major tradeoff for never having the safety of a health state as a backup | Con - Never truly have 2 health states, each and every chase is to the death. Killers may complain about survivors starting chases with Exhaustion perks, and regaining them by the time Bloodlust III kicks in)
Simple Overhaul:
Press the active ability button while in the Dying state to instantly recover to the Injured state. This will inflict the Broken status for the remainder of the Trial. While Broken, leave no blood trail, Aura is hidden from the Killer, and all actions are completed 1/3/5% faster.
(Pro - This will make the perk have a strong early game with an in-born counter to certain killers to prevent redundancies where the Broken effect is considered. Gain a small buff and potentially turn the tables on the killer in a slugging situation. | Con - When triggered, marks the player for death just as the original No Mither. Is hard mode, but the player must be downed to activate it in the first place.)
Major Overhaul:
While in the Dying State: If the killer picks up or drops another survivor while within 12/18/24 meters, you are instantly restored to the Injured state and are Broken for 60 seconds if not already broken. While Broken, moving while in the Dying state activates this perk's secondary effect: Aura is concealed from the killer, leave no blood trail, and make no sound, can pick self up from Dying State without aid.
(Pro - Gives the player a free health state in exchange for becoming Broken for a minute, provided the killer does not play around it. Grants players the slugging benefits of No Mither without tipping off the killer to its presence. | Con - Marks the player for death when activated. Killers will not slug if they witness this perk in action. Very low probability of working ideally without coordination and circumstance)
All that said, these are simple ideas that approach the perk from different angles. Not that they are, by merit, phenomenal ideas themselves - however, I believe that if the perk was swapped out for any one of these TODAY, there would be NO community backlash for fans of the original, and there would likely be many interesting builds surrounding it.
Either way, they should probably change the description and flavor text:
Description: You can shake off even the roughest punishment when you’re pushed.
Flavor Text: ’He lamped me good before I could do so much as stand. Didn’t let up neither. Just kept throwin’ himself at me ‘til I was on the ground. Didn’t expect me to get back up so fast, lost him some good teeth for the trouble.’ – David King
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