How would you rework deadhard?
Everyone knows that deadhard needs a rework, but what is ur idea to rework the perk?
Tell ur idea in the comments
My first idea: after arning 1 successful protection hit dead hard actives for 15 seconds, while deadhard is active the protected surv has all his scratch marks, pools of blood, grunts of pain are hidden and your aura Is revealed to the killer untill deadhard's duration is over.
My second idea: whenever a 8-10-12 meters from other survs they gain the ability to pick them selfs up at 150% the normal speed (a 50% bonus)
Comments
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that isn't a rework. that's just changing it into another perk.
just remove the invincible frames.
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No, actually just removing the invincible frames is just a nerf, what I proposed is a entire reword, as DS received sometime ago
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I think a better way to make it more fair is to adjust some aspects of the perk, aswell as giving it the MoM treatment and changing the activation requirements to something else entirely.
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Remove the distance. It's the best option, I have a full post explaining it but in short.
Distance because it : corrects mistakes, allows you to greed another loop, make distances you normally wouldn't and hurts weaker killers more than the stronger ones (basically nerfing the distance will help low tier killers and not affect the higher antiloop one)
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Apparently that is what they are going to do in the future. They talked about it in the last Q&A.
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Simple, remove distance. Now it will save you from hit. But it will be weak after this change right? So now it will give you 150% movement speed for 3 seconds. So if you make killer miss hit, you will be rewarded.
Perk will reward you for playing smart. Plus killer can bait you, so there is counterplay. But it is not third health state anymore. Balanced.
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That’s not the problem though. Dead hards problem is not the invincibility. It’s the distance. It allows you to extend loops and prolong chases and correct your mistakes with a click of a button and carry you the whole game.
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Quite a simple change to bring it more in line with the way that DS was changed, have it make you incapable of interacting with pallets or vault points for a short duration after using it. That way it can still be used for its actual purpose, but you can't just press E to dash to a loop that you wouldn't have reached otherwise since the pallet or window would be unusable to you and the killer would gain on you.
It doesn't need to be fundamentally changed, it just needs to pick one of the two strong effects it currently has.
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I can hope so, would definitely improve my fun as both roles tbh
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It's a though one.
Removing the invincibility frames would make it an on-demand shorter sprint burst and may remove it's trump-card status against Nurse.
Removing the small burst of speed may make it a lot weaker (except against Nurse).
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Dead Hard should only receive a slight nerf. Instead of the distance it goes now the distance should be just a little shorter not by much. People have to remember that killers have Blood Lust so this is a fair and reasonable nerf. The invincibility frames should stay though.
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they need to either add an activation requirement to it (one that survivors actually need to do something to get) or a downside that makes the Perk a double edged sword when they use it instead of just a free, all upsides Perk.
every other Exhaustion Perk in the game falls under one of these two cathegories - except for DH, which is the reason it outclasses them all by such a wide margin.
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Delete*
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“Everyone knows dead hard needs a rework”
Really? Who exactly? The killer mains that can’t stand one perk that is only good in certain loops, because god forbid it is strong enough. Even though in open areas it sucks.
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Certain loops and yet it´s used almost all the time that it´s in the top 3 most used perks of 2021.
Incase ppl forget DH is the second chance perk of all exhaust perks.
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Survivors cannot interact with windows or pallets for 5 seconds after the dash.
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That's probably cause u don't know how to use it, deadhhard is in the same situation as old ruin, ruin got reworked cause ever killer was using it, 80% of the killers at red ranks, deadhard is the most used perk from the entire game. It can buy u a completely new chase for free, and It rewards u for playing badly. As same as noed does for example. It's not a "us vs then" post, I have 2000 hours in the game, I play both sides, and I + 99% of people think that deadhard is at the very least unfair
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Nerf the distance. It should only be big enough to dodge the killer's hit.
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Make it so you can't interact with stiff for a brief time after using it. It can work just like pinheads power you cant vault break pallets or attack for like a second after using his power.
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Dead hard is fine, no changes needed.
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Im always curious about this debate cause it seems that im in a minority that doesnt care about distance aspect, theres many other exhaustion perks that are made for distance and completely ends the chase cause the killer doesnt wanna bother anymore or makes it so you enter a new loop chase again somewhere else so it makes me wonder why dead hards distance is such a problem to people. Id say the invincible frames would be more of an issue but i see thats not the case for a lot of players, its just the distance. My only issue personally as killer with the perk is when it validates the hit and doesnt down them, remove that, just make the hit miss and id be happy.
But im always interested in seeing peoples different ideas with this discussion.
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I know. but I think that's fine. removing the invicible frames means the execution needs to be good, you can't just dash into a wall and survive the hit. can't dead hard over traps anymore.
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The other exhaustion perks you normally know before you commit alot of time to chase. Oh look Meg then she zooms off and you go find a different survivor or lithe normally gets use early in chase but dh you go through the chase get an hit follow them do the loop thing and then you about to get a down and boom dh to a pallet drop the pallet and get off to a new loop. SB and lithe also takes more skill to use effectively imo.
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Reduce the distance it gives by 50%
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Yeah I don’t know “how to use it”
Please provide 1 example where Dead Hard actually worked in an open area against a killer who knows how to bait it.
I’ll wait.
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Make DH only dodge a hit and not used for distance.
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Genuine question: How do you bait Dead Hard for distance? How do you capitalise on that bait when someone uses Dead Hard that way?
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Well if u get hited and use the sprint bust to go to a open area while u have deadhard, u don't know how to use it.
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Good question!
I assume you are talking about my response I just provided, so I am going to assume you mean in an open area.
Its simple. You get very close behind the survivor and not swing. They will end up wasting it because it does not give them the distance that other perks such as SB, BL, or Lithe would.
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Ok so you don’t have an answer. Got it.
I specifically asked to provide 1, just 1 example where you have successfully used DH in the open (a position survivors find themselves in a lot during a match).
You can’t gain distance if you’re already injured.
Seems to me like you are nitpicking your scenarios in order to claim it needs nerfing.
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Deadhard against nurse is a 3th health stage, against blight it can avoid a hit amd consume all ur tokens, against twins a free kick on victor, against Demogorgon an anti power basically.
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Well, surely you'd agree that it's very silly to limit the discussion to just a deadzone. Nothing works in a deadzone, that's kind of what makes it a deadzone to begin with- even a well timed Sprint Burst only might help you, and none of the other Exhaustion perks will.
It's not as though you're always in an open area. I'd argue you're quite rarely in an open area. If there's a loop nearby to get to, Dead Hard for distance cannot be baited, it cannot be outplayed, and it is an incredibly strong effect on top of the strong effect the perk is supposed to have-- and it's not as though that "if" is particularly unlikely. The nature of the game is that there are a lot of loops around.
Now, if your overall argument is that Dead Hard to dodge a hit is not OP, but Dead Hard for distance is, then we're in agreement.
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But then there would be no reason to run it, literally every other exhaustion perk would be better
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It can be baited but even in structures if you know how to position yourself. For example, you cannot curve with DH so in many instances you CAN mindgame and out position the survivor. Additionally, it all boils down to the distance the survivor has to get to said area, if the killer doesn’t pre swing, you aren’t whiffing and giving them that additional time because even if they vault a window, most of the time you will hit through it.
As for the open area discussion, it’s not silly when it is relative because where other perks shine (open areas) Dead Hard does not. I think it’s unfair that people want to take where a perk shines and boil it down to “I hate it so it should be nerfed”. I mean if that’s the case why aren’t we talking about all exhaustion perks? Because they too bare the same significance when you are talking about them being used for distance.
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Absolutely- in structures where someone is using it reactively you can bait it out, and you can position yourself such that they don't have a straight shot to continue a loop.
However, when you're chasing a survivor after, say, breaking a pallet and forcing them out, and they would in any other situation be downed because they don't have the time to reach the next loop... there is nothing the killer can do to stop them from pressing E and lunging forward to reset the chase at another loop. That's not the same thing at all.
Either one of those is arguably not OP, but combined they are absolutely too much value for one perk to have. The perk should only provide one, and my pick for which one is is the one you're arguing for, because you're right: it's fair, it's balanced, it requires good timing and gamesense to be used and can be outplayed by superior timing and gamesense on the other side.
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Ur not even being racional right now, u just want to defend a perk that u use, but if u want I can give u some exemples,if a blight is rushing to u even in a open area and u deadhard, he will get fatigued and u will gain A TON of distance, enough to get to another loop, same as nurse (it's basically a 3th health stage), billy, there's many situations that deadhard makes ur power not work as buy u a new chase. If u still thinking that's fair ur just being delusional to defend a perk that u like.
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Keep iframes, only give the dash forward as a reward for avoiding a hit
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I only use lithe and balanced landing out of the "make distance" perks so i have no experience with smash hit. Most of the time my chase ends when i use them cause i go to a different strong loop and the killer doesnt want to bother lol but you are right, if its used early its not that much of an inconvenience! If they removed the hit validation when dead hard is used, itd be a huge improvement i have more of a problem with that than a survivor making distance with it cause then they will get downed soon anyway when i hit them again in a few seconds, in my experience as killer at least thats what happens! But it does seem like a lot of killers have their experiences ruined with dead hard distance usage, in my case if i see the chase is taking a bit too long and they created distance to another loop, i just leave and go for the gens. Its hard cause a lot of changes players suggest could completely change the perk or just make it a bit useless, so typical perk rework hardship.
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If you nerf DH, survivors will use something else. And you will pretend that's its the worse thing ever too.
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We don't need rework, just remove it and give him something else.
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I don't think pretending others to act like idiot and arguing over it is something worthwhile.
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Lets be real, without a complete rework, DH will either remain how it is and be used by 50% of survivors, or it'll get even a minor nerf and be pretty much useless and everybody will take SB. In its current form, there's just no middle ground that makes it anywhere near as useful as SB.
And if we go down the latter route, we'll be back where we started, when people start 99% their sprint bursts as the norm and everybody will want that nerfed too.
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The problem is when you dh to a pallet or window that you wouldn't of made it to otherwise. You can't bait out the distance part because the will dh before your in range then make the pallet or window which adds at least 15-20 seconds on a chase that should of end.
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I don’t personally believe that Dead Hard does that much in the instance you are describing to warrant it a nerf or a change.
Again, why are we only focusing on the value it gets and not the value it lacks? Because as far as I am concerned balance works both ways. As in, yes it shines here but in many other situations where it would be just as important to get distance it does not see any value whatsoever. Which in turn makes me believe it is situational at best.
There are many other situations where other perks do the SAME thing with other exhaustion perks.
You're injured on a gen by a hill and nothing else, press forward and activate SB/BL.
You are injured next to a window and see killer approaching, press forward and vault to activate Lithe.
Do these scenarios not (for a lack of better term) “rob” your hit too or am I missing something? They do.
You know why no one wants to talk about them? Because they are much more annoyed by Dead Hard doing it.
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That's why you play Windows with it and now you can't be killed
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I would exclude the I-frames and make the survivor unable to vault and drop a pallet for a little amount of time, like doctor's shock therapy, after using the perk.
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God I love 0 iq players saying "juSt BaiT DeaDhArd". Maybe play some killer against actually good survivors, and realize that baiting a deadhard doesnt matter if they use it to get to a window or pallet.
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Aren't YOU nitpicking scenarios to show that it isn't powerful? You're showing a scenario in which a terrible player runs out in the open like a mindless idiot, only to use DH incorrectly. Majority of my survivors use it to reach a window or pallet, you cannot bait that out. I can't extendo my lunge 200 more feet at light speeds so I can reach them after they dead hard to a pallet. There's no counter to deadhard for distance. I'd say I play killer 70/30, so I'm generally going against decent or above decent survivors, minus the two or three games I sometimes get newer players.
If "most" survivors find themselves in a position where they're out in open like an idiot, you're definitely playing with newer players, or you're a newer player yourself. Generally people are going to be using DH within a loop, or to get to a pallet/window on a loop.
If a killer has a problem with the invincibility, most likely they're newer players (excluding those who complain about how it glitches some powers out, such as nemesis' tentacle, demo shred, etc.) If a killer is having a problem with the distance, which is me and other killers, they're generally going against above average survivors. Or in other words, survivors who have a brain capacity to recognize how to use DH to the best of it's ability.
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It may be situational on a technicality, but the situation it's useful in is "being injured and in chase". You'd have to be in a very noteworthy deadzone on a truly awful map not to have something you can Dead Hard to.
There's no intellectualising away the fact that Dead Hard is extremely strong. The meta isn't always made up solely of the strongest stuff, but in this instance it is- Dead Hard is unambiguously the strongest Exhaustion perk because it has two strong effects that can be used at almost any time in the match, unless you get genuinely unlucky.
Sprint Burst is the closest, but people tend not to mind that one so much for a variety of reasons. It requires more of the user, it can be properly relied on to bait it out, it doesn't eat certain powers the way that Dead Hard does... I'll grant you that Sprint Burst is arguably just as strong as one of Dead Hard's effects, but it's not as strong as both at once, and it's the only one that comes close.
Lithe requires a vault. It doesn't give you distance to get to a vault (that you then can likely play around as a chase-reset) the way that Dead Hard does.
Balanced Landing requires a drop, and that's much more scarce than anything else on the list.
Smash Hit requires a pallet and a stun.
They all either have categorically weaker effects, much more situational activation requirements, or both.
Is the killer actually on you? Time it right and you can dodge a hit with Dead Hard. Is the killer about to be on you? Press E and you can reset the chase with Dead Hard. Both of those things are on the same perk and either one of them is on par with the majority of the Exhaustion perks on the roster.
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I would make it base kit
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