Unpopular Opinion: Camping/Tunnelling is worse for killers than it is for survivors.
Okay so hear me out on this. Can camping and tunneling be used to get 4ks, 100%. Is it effective for killers, also yes a lot of the time. As a survivor does it suck to see this, yes. So it would seem that its beneficial for the killer and bad for the survivor BUT here's where the issue lies. It seems this way.
Here's where things get tricky. Survivors will have to deal with that killer for 1 game, yes one annoying game, and if it works as an effective strategy the killer's MMR will go up, because they got the kills. but the killer is going to reach a point where this strategy provides less an less returns because while they are relying on it to "win" they are not getting experience in other aspects of the game with survivors actually on their level. They get into situations where by their first down 3 gens have already popped because the survivor they chased is much better at looping, dodging etc. because they are used to being up against killers who are stronger in those areas to make up for the lack of camping and tunneling. And then the killer will feel his only option is to camp/tunnel, and it still might work.
But as this cycle continues these types of games are going to get more and more frequent and the strategy is going to be less and less effective. Because they aren't learning/using the fundamentals of pressuring gens, map control, chases etc. while they are up against survivors of the same caliber, they are getting stomped in those areas and having to use camping/tunneling just to feel like they have a chance. And so they are doing the same strategy that for most people isn't thrilling gameplay. Eventually they will most likely quit because who would want to play every game like that.
In addition they are going to get so few bloodpoints because they aren't chasing, using their power, hooking multiple times, interrupting survivors etc.
I think that part of the reason the killer base is dwindling is because these tactics are still incentivized. That people consider the only "win" for the killer is 4k with gens undone. These strategies benefit the killer in their game but then hurt all of their overall future gameplay.
So yes in the game camping and tunneling are some of the tactics the survivors hate the most, but overall I think killers in general get hurt by these strategies more and that it has and will continue to have a lasting impact on the dbd community.
(I recognize that at top tier game play this does not apply but the vast majority of players aren't part of that top percent)
Comments
-
I think that's indeed an unpopular opinion
1 -
While this is true you should watch spooknjukes video on the behavior aproved build. in which he camps with sertain perks and while the video only shows one game i have played 10 with the perks and I can say that at least 70% of the time this works. And both him and my mmr is perty high
1 -
I agree with you and have voiced the exact same in posts so I know it's a not very popular opinion. However, it's an accurate opinion and sticks the Killer player in an MMR hell in the long term. It's definitely not the only problem facing Killers but it is a definite factor.
3 -
Exactly. In the immediate game its worse for the survivors, 0 questions asked. but in the long term It will continue to wreck the killer and probably push them out of the game.
2 -
That people consider the only "win" for the killer is 4k with gens undone.
And they are "forced" to camp and tunnel to maintain that mind set in order to continue facing the same or better teams.
(I'm not against the tactic, I just disagree with being forced to do so.)
2 -
I guess it can be bad in the sense that a killer may not develop other skills if they overly rely on camping and tunneling from the beginning. But as OP kind of alluded to, a high level killer may do it because they accept that it's not possible to pressure the entire map against 4 high level survivors and still win. It's an inherent flaw in the map design. We wouldn't be talking about it as much if every map more towards the size and tile count of Coal Tower with a good incentive to not tunnel and camp.
0 -
I am saying it gets to a point where they not only will not get a single kill if they dont. They still wont get many hooks or much pressure or many bloodpoints. They will be getting stomped and their options are continue playing without using these tactics and getting stomped until their MMR is at a place where the survivors are at their level, or rely on these tactics have "okay" games but still notice that survivors are walking all over you in most of the areas of the game, still feels bad bro.
I am basically stating that if these tactics are used somewhat regularly by a killer they are going to be put into a situation where the game isnt fun because the people they are playing against will be so much better in most areas of the game.
2 -
Eh different maps benefit different killers. Someone with a teleport/speed up is going to be able to deal with a big map much better than the trapper or ghostface. And I am not even referring to proxy camping or happenstance tunneling. Face camping, and ignoring survivors who are body blocking to take hits for the one they just unhooked. Killers know that if only 3 people are alive they are going to have a much harder time completing all the gens. In a non top tier lobby it will still take minimum 2 people and borrowed time to save a person being face camped, AND there is still a high chance of someone else getting hooked immediate because of it. If you throw in basement or bubba the only real option for the survivors is rushing gens and sacrificing the one who was hooked first (Which no one really wants to do because both boring gameplay and they know it mega sucks for the person being camped)
0 -
Camping yes, tunnelling no.
Also if you camp survivors smartly, camping is also good.
1 -
Pretty much. In my solo queues I see killers regularly get 4 hooks or less and 0 to 1 kills so terrible BP and a terrible game. If the survivors screw up, sure, it's a 4K but quite often I see Killers focus solely on one person, try to power through BT and DS, have gens finished less than 10 meters from a survivor they're facecamping and overcommitting to chases. Tunnel vision loses matches.
Then, after a couple wins, I usually get sacrificed by a Killer that does more than catch one person, stand by them, and let the survivors do gens uncontested.
The point as Killer is not tunnel at all costs. The point is to destroy efficient uses of survivor time through pressure. Depending on the situation it might be the right call or it might not. I don't know why saying you should change your strategy to meet your circumstances is controversial to some but it is for some reason.
1 -
Yeah, what I'm getting at, the killer is working against themselves by forcing a kill. Making it a nearly guarantee they will continue facing survivors that kick their ass.
1 -
Correct. Unpopular. If it was worse for killers then no one would camp or tunnel. Def worse for survivors. Me personally I've played this game so long I don't care if I get tunnels or camped anymore. I do love a good bubba camp tho😉
0 -
While there are certainly killers that go into a match knowing they're gonna camp and tunnel, I think most killers only end up doing it because they tried 'playing fairly' and it didn't work. They'll go and chase survivors, hook, chase another survivor but if it becomes obvious that chases are taking too long or survivors are being stealthy and hard to find then they sorta have to camp/tunnel off the hook to have a chance at getting anything done.
I've certainly had games where 3 or 4 survivors were amazing loopers, way better than me certainly. So after spending 4 gens getting one down, I camp the hook and end up getting a 3/4k thanks to altruism.
1 -
I think you both missed my point in I am not meaning that game specifically, clearly it sucks for the survivors in the present. But that it is a tactic that compensates for the other skills needed by the killer in the game. And in doing so makes the killers "win" games/get more kills in games due to survivor sympathy (for the camped/tunneled survivor not the killer) rather than playing better. In turn placing them up against survivors with better skills making it even harder and harder to get kills without using these tactics.
0 -
Camping and tunneling is essentially how killers get an easy 4k these days so still, it's good for killers.
0 -
If that happens regularly, though, that's a great example of the problem. It's short term gain for long term pain. The more that happens, the more you can get paired with survivors that you have to camp to get a kill.
Then, eventually, you reach the point where it doesn't work and now you're in what I call MMR hell
For long term enjoyment it would be better to let the survivors go so you don't get matched with better survivors until you're ready for them. Thar means you might let some tbagging, BMing toxic survivors go at times which is, understandably, hard to do.
But, as MMR is based off of kills, it's incentivized to get those kills no matter what. It's a design flaw with MMR that leads to player frustration.
Personally, I think either the MMR system needs to consider more than just kills or the devs should consider making camping and tunneling harder to do and, at the same time, change gen speeds so that KIllers wouldn't need to camp or tunnel at any MMR.
1 -
Exactly this. Or since people dont want to decentivize camping and tunneling they could incentivize hooking multiple people as part of the game as opposed to as a perk like BBQ. Make it something like the more a survivor gets hooked the less efficient they are so hooking all 4 survivors would slow them down. Or if they wanted to just eliminate early camping they could take the proximity to the hook minuses affect future bloodpoint earnings. So it you spend your time camping you lose out on points later in the game but if you do this at the end of the game its not problematic because most of your points are already earned. I think there is a heavy mindset of killer main vs survivor main as opposed to looking at how the game can be more enjoyable for all parties involved.
1 -
Unpopular opinion: Bullying is worst for the bully.
0
