Let Onyro see that number of tokens of condemned that survivors have acquired
If Onyro could see the condemned status that would offer killer players a unique way to play against survivors with Onyro. Survivors already have the ability to counter condemned but it would at least make it easier to apply pressure to survivors to push them off of generators. Right now a survivor could have between 1 and 6 stacks of condemned and it's not clear whether or not it's worth it to try to get additional condemned stacks on a survivor.
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Yes. There's no good reason not to.
All it means is that from the killer side her power feels super ineffectual even if it's doing something, and I never know if what I'm doing is actually working.
I don't know when they're gaining condemned from teleports, I don't know when they're immune to condemned, I don't know if someone has just purged condemned and is at one stack or 6.
It's frankly ridiculous that a killer's power is hidden from the killer themselves.
What's the absolute worst case scenario? You gain the ability to punish someone who has ignored condemned long enough to get 6 stacks by teleporting near them.
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@anarchy753 What's the absolute worst case scenario? You gain the ability to punish someone who has ignored condemned long enough to get 6 stacks by teleporting near them.
Exactly, even if you were to do exactly this, you would still need to down them to Mori them. The survivors don't become exposed when they are fully condemned. In fact if a survivor is on death hook, there is no reason to go out of your way to condemn them.
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Mmm tunneling one survivor until you eventually get to mori them yummy
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The time it takes to put in a video tape takes less time than it takes to wipe the weapon. In addition to this, what's the difference between tunnelling to sacrifice compared to tunnel until mori'd . It's not any more time efficient to get 7 stacks of condemned.
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Could you actually do that, though? Condemned doesn't tick up in chase, so you kind of have to leave them alone or just teleport near them and harass them off a TV to then leave them alone.
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Even if you never get hooked, you can die because the Sadako player notices you have, let's say, 4 stacks, and just teleports onto you until you're ready to be killed. And you're suggesting they have a tape in the first place, which will not always be the case.
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You can still build it by just teleporting everywhere.
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Same reason why Pig can't see RBT timers or Plague can't see sickness meter. The reason being...I really don't know?
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This is why you have to care about condemn and deal with it early, seems like a good thing.
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But you can do that now. The only thing that changes is that you get a little feedback on how close someone is, if you wanted to then you could just teleport everywhere right now until someone gets to full Condemned.
I'm not seeing how this change would make that strategy more effective, but if I'm missing something here then by all means let me know- it just seems like the strategy of "pick a survivor and keep teleporting onto them until they hit max stacks" doesn't change at all if you can see individual Condemned stacks on that survivor.
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Knowledge is power in DBD. If you could know who was the most condemned stacks, you know who to seek out. You know who aggressively gets rid of condemned and who is more patient. Knowing who to chase at any given time would make the teleporting strategy more popular, which shouldn't happen.
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...Is there a reason it shouldn't happen? It's not as though there's no counterplay to it, and I feel like the killer actively using their ability as often as possible would make for some pretty engaging gameplay from both sides.
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I'm also not sure why
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Everything you're describing sounds like an improvement in gameplay, ngl.
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Because BHVR thinks giving the killer a lack of information is balanced.
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No.
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There is technically counterplay, but it's not something that's likely to happen.
The only way to counter this would to be turning off TV's in advance, but even then it's not likely to be sufficient enough to stop Sadako's teleporting, and the other would be to insert a tape, but it's pretty easy to figure out when a survivor's trying to do that and if a survivor doesn't have a tape by the time a chase begins they probably won't be able to pull it off, so it's just a free and uninteractive kill for the Sadako player.
That can already happen of course, but my point is that it'd be easier to target people who have more condemned progress and tunnel them out of the game very quickly.
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Imagine. A horrifying creature whose skill is to kill people with other worldly powers - and they don't know what their power is doing.
The lack of information that Killers have makes no sense, and the abundance of information survivors have makes even less sense.
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I think you're massively understating the potency of this counterplay. The counterplay is to be proactive in turning off TVs and also specifically turning off the TV that lowers your Condemned. Even if Sadako catches you as you're reaching that TV, the tape-insert animation is faster than her weapon cooldown, so she doesn't get a 'free and uninteractive kill' in the least.
Hell, even if Sadako teleports to every TV before you can turn them off, they have a hefty cooldown and she's left with half of her power. They may have buffed Condemned but it's still not actually that strong- and if the Sadako player is doing what you're describing, that's where it functions best as engaging slowdown. This would be a win/win for everyone involved.
This is also, still, doable now and largely unchanged by seeing Condemned stacks. The only thing that'd change is that you pick whoever has highest Condemned to try and focus down instead of picking at random, which is not that much of a difference from the survivor side.
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True, if you know you're being targeted for your higher condem all you have to do is switch tapes.
This would give her more passive slowdown too given that the condemnation is more of a threat
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One of her weakness is her inability to put any pressure at all on the survivors early in the match. Cenobite can force to solve his boxes in the first minute, and Oni can go into hyper mode after hitting a survivor twice. On the other hand, she has to teleport within 16 meters of a survivor seven times ! And there is a 100 second cooldown to jump to the same TV. No one cares about her power in this situation. In fact, most matches end without any interaction with the TV.
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I agree. It shouldn’t be hidden from the killer. It’s her power. Survivors have access to all kinds of info.
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I agree 💯 killers need more intel on their own powers. Onyro for sure. 🤷🏼♂️
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One thing that has galled me for the longest time is the way that killer only ever get binary (or threeway) information out of their power, even though they are supposed to be the master and wielder of said power.
Plague is literally the vessal and high priest of a mystical illness that she literally pukes on survivors out of her rotten guts, but she only ever knows "not infected", "infected" or "fully infected". Thats quit some mythical mastery *rolls eyes*, while the survivors get a live ticking and 100% accurate progress clock on the infection levels of all survivors. Well, THATS someone who did their master in microbiology! (get it? THEY masterd that ability. *badabum*)
Same with Wesker: he is a genius level evil scientist and BBEG, who harbores the virus in his own body and is able to infect others with it, yet his "genius level knowledge" is limited to the same three states as Plague, with a full blown progress clock AGAIN on the survivors side. And with the Onryou its basically the same: the killer only knows if a survivor is cursed, uncursed or condemned, while the survivors know all this and anything in between.
While I understand that this measures were put in place to prevent tunneling, its also holding the killers back and make them feel much more incompetend. It feels like things should be reversed! The killer should be in full controll and knowledge about their very own power, that they spend considerable amount of time to master or are an intrinsic part of their identity and being, with the survivors only knowing their own state in broad terms.
If you don't want the killer to have perfect info, then WHY do the survivors have to be given all this information on a silver platter? Shouldn't they at the very least have to second guess a little bit and learn the power by, I don't know, counting seconds, just like killers have to do when trying to counter BT, Buckle Up or even DS? The way that survivors have all this perfect knowledge and intell on the killers power has always confused the hell outta me.
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Memorizing is a thing?
I already count stacks. No need to visualize anything.
If anything, this encourages tunneling.
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Yeah no, Sadako can already easily turn someone into her plaything effectively denying them the possibility to get a tape and put it in the tv if they decide to focus on them
We don't need for the killer to know also if it's worth committing to that tunnel too (that let's remind everyone, it effectively can remove someone from the game without them ever being hooked)
^This is also the reason pig doesn't see the timer btw, it's not that difficult
Plague not seeing the timer is fine too, they might decide to risk an m1 when the survivor is on a window or pallet. No need to tell them if it's gonna be worth or not
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Idk if it should be basekit but imagine if her Iri Tape made it where you see the condemned and the survivors don't.
Then survivors would have to be extra wary or keep tabs on their condemned mentally.
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part of skill-cap of playing sadako is learning how to gauge how condemned someone is. I do not agree with such a change.
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Sadako would become too oppressive if she got the same Condemned UI Survivors have.
There is a solo Condemned build: PWYF, Whispers/Ultimate Weapon, Nemesis, Game Afoot that focuses on accumulating Condemn stacks on the Obsession. The strategy is to harass the Obsession by getting in and out of chase with them to accumulate PWYF stacks while spamming teleport. If the Obsession picks up a tape, knock it out of their hands and repeat till Obsession gets fully Condemned and down them quickly with PWYF speed.
Having a Condemned UI would make this strategy stronger
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That's a lot more than can be expected from your average player. Sadako is already not easy to play against because a good Sadako can and will make getting rid of codemnation incredibly hard. Making this even harder wouldn't be much of a problem for more coordinated survivors but it would absolutely wreak havoc on average players.
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Kinda like current Sadako now?
I run a gen defense build Sadako with condemned being a secondary threat rather than the focus and survivors still have trouble managing their condemned half the time. Honestly more paranoia on their condemned could help some of them, others will still obviously fall for it, hence why I suggested it being an Iri Addon.
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I'd like to remind everyone this thread originated in MARCH OF 2022
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Eh, considering you get the little 'glow' of their name when their condemned increases, I think that's enough. Tracking how much condemned each survivor has is part of playing Onryo. You already know exactly when someone's condemned is gonna increase; you teleport and they don't have a tape, it'll go up, you hit them when they had a tape, it'll go up.
Also oof didn't see it was a necro, would have definitely made more sense to add it to old Sadako, when it was much harder to track Condemned and it was more in the survivor's hands.
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