Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
My first game with Sadako shows the game wasn't ready for her
I felt absolutely powerless. Granted, I was on The Game, because that map has such a reputation for being balanced. All it was was holding forward and breaking pallets. My first chase, the survivor instantly dropped the first pallet they saw and I couldn't catch up to them as they looped around it even with Bloodlust (but sure, let's remove that mechanic). And I'm sure I'd have a similar experience on any other map.
The survivors seemed completely unfazed by my demanifested mode, and started running long before I came close to them. Any time I used my teleport, they were out of range or I was facing straight into a wall upon spawning, and my speed boost gave me little catch-up. And maybe it would hit them, but they never got fully condemned even though I was spamming it at times. I don't think they ever even needed a tape.
Despite it becoming a 3v1 rather quickly, I still felt powerless. Soon all of my TVs that I could use were away from the gens, and even though that's where the survivors were holding forward to, away from the gens and towards my TVs, I caught them in that way except maybe once. And soon enough, all the gens were done, with 3 people escaping. I tried desperately to tp around trying to fully condemn them so I could get a mori, rather than chasing the not-deadhook injured guy, because that would've ended with a BT/Dead Hard hook trade and they all get out regardless.
And this wasn't one of those unbeatable teams I get accused of exaggerating all the time. These were normal. I was constantly on the survivors. I tunneled the first guy out because he had no DS, and didn't use any of the strong pallets they had, and the team even came to block for them and give free hits, yet the gens still flew. I even got 1 or 2 Freddy hits, because they underestimated my reach. At times, one cocky Claudette even stood around waiting for me to chase them. My ability to phase through people only got me 2 hits despite them body blocking the first guy. No boons either btw.
Granted, my build was Call Of Brine, Gearhead, Whisperers, Dead Man's Switch, each of which I've been told are good perks, all of which I disagree with and have just proved with this match. I regressed the gens faster but they still got done, seeing survivors' auras on them didn't do anything because they just got off and held forward when I came, I was hearing Whispers all the time because of the map layout, and Dead Man's Switch probably garnered me 60 total seconds of blockage the whole match. I was also using Old Newspaper and Mother's Mirror, which are browns, but if the killer's as good as people claim, she doesn't need her best add-ons, let alone any add-ons, to win.
So don't be fooled. This is not the new Nurse. She's map/perk/add-on/survivor dependent, just like 90% of the killers in this game. People saying she's easy to win with and stuff like that need to get off the solo Q fruit punch.
Comments
-
I will say I think for once I'm agreeing with you. Or, at least, with part of the post.
Sadako absolutely is not easy to win with. COH is the bane of my existence and if you can't find it the game is essentially over before it's even begun. Add-ons no but she is definitely perk dependent and is no where near the best killer in the game. I think she's a lot better than people make her out to be, but she's absolutely not the new Nurse or whatever.
Also tbh those perks are decent by themselves, they only really become good when paired with something else usually (ie Call Of Brine + PGTW, DMS + PR). Gearhead is still trash 🏃🏻
22 -
I would say that this sounds like a first time reaction rather than evidence that she isn't ready for the game.
A lot of her gameplay requires you to be aware of your surroundings. In the same way that Freddy has to be when he teleports to gens. If the survivors seem unfazed by your power, it is possible that it was due to this being your first time playing her and they knew that.
I don't think anyone wanted nor has claimed she is new "Nurse". Not every killer needs to completely negate in-game mechanics in the way that Nurse does.
I 4k'd my first time as her, but I also have enough hours in the game to understand that it is not enough to use as analysis when you consider the fact that I probably got RNG-lucky. As I am capable of admitting I was not good with her, and she is still a work in progress for me.
This was my build btw, nothing amazing.
9 -
It sounds to me like you're going through the struggles of an M1 killer. Welcome to the club. Now that being said she's brand new and you're brand new to playing her. You can't expect to dominate with her straight away. Sadako seems like she has a pretty high learning curve too despite being an M1 killer. Give it some time and practice before announcing her as unfit for the game. I can guarantee, if CoH didn't exist people would have a much different opinion on her and killer in general lately.
13 -
Since when has anyone said she‘s the new nurse? I thought most people agreed sadako wasn’t that good.
Most of the perks you were running aren’t terrible but call of brine is better when combined with others (mainly pop). Gearhead is still bad though.
0 -
What exactly is the skill part of her kit? The part where you can't tell which way the TV will send you/where it puts you a whole level below or above the gen survivors *might* be working on? Or is it spamming TP and hoping you get condemn stacks?
She's just underbaked. She needs more time in the oven. Not a WHOLE lot (although her kit is pretty boring as it is, so why anyone would want less for her is beyond me) but she needs to be more engaging. I wouldn't even be opposed to a rework that gets rid of condemned of they did something more interesting and effective with it.
0 -
Whenever the forum isn´t filled with nerf threads for the new killer, its save to assume, that said killer is weak af.
8 -
Pnhead had not this nerf threads either? But after while, i saw so many complains about him. Even after his nerfs, i am still seeing some nerf threads for him.
4 -
Sadako is more of a new Hag due to her teleport she needs some adjustment still as they havent really balanced her yet since release. If the survivors have one person going around shutting off tvs and collecting tapes that limits your mobility and they should always become your priority. Dont just stay on one person trying to get a down if gens are popping and you see your tvs turning off.
1 -
My first game playing her I got stomped (also on The Game), my second game I got adept (my first ever killer adept).
If we judged all killers on individual personal experiences of our first games playing them we'd have supersoldier blights and nurse's flying around rn.
2 -
Don't besmirch the Hag like that, she's a ######### ton stronger than Sadako just because she actually has full control of where her TP ends up (as well as where the survivors camera will jerk to). Hag is a Strong A-tier that can damn near play the same level of stealth as the onyon, but without a bright white dress. Also somehow she is taller and can see better 🤷🏾♂️
0 -
Most people waited with purchasing him, since his voice lines were removed on release and i didn´t really see any pinheads at all after the release. So it might be just a lack of players wanting to play him.
But yeah, just today i´ve seen a nerf thread about him. From a new player who probably hasn´t figured out how to play against him, since there are so few people playing him.
2 -
People were calling garbo her release version go figure
2 -
My point wasnt to besmerch hag just to use as reference as she has the same map presence after placing down her web. If survivors could remove hag traps without a flashlight she might be weaker.
0 -
Probably, that would be horrible for hag. Problem with the Onyon is that is her problem unfortunately
0 -
I've played maybe 40 games with her since release and...she's a bad killer. Low 'C' tier, if not lower - survivors seem to have adapted to her and it feels like I'm playing pre-rework Wraith, but with worse stealth. Or a neutered version of Demogorgon with no Shred.
It's sad that Myers running Mirror has better stealth than an actual 'stealth' killer. And yes, far too much of her kit is in her addons (yay for mandatory browns and yellows again).
Right now I'm banging my head against the wall trying to make her work. The best build I've come up with for her is BBQ + Pain Resonance + DMS + Bamboozle.
COH can be a nightmare on multi-floor maps or any place where it can be put somewhere that's a huge time commitment for the killer to snuff and covers a huge chunk of the map (RPD, Eyrie, Game etc.).
That said - I disagree that Onryo is even close to a good killer. What does she bring that other killers don't bring better? Her stealth feels almost entirely pointless. Her teleport is about all she has going for her, and - in ideal conditions, where TV spawn logic is perfect - it's about as good as Demogorgon's portals.
She's the only killer in the game that lacks anything to consistently shorten chases (aside from maybe Pig, but even Pig has a dash). She doesn't have an initiate, an instadown or an anti-loop tool. She doesn't even have real stealth (why oh why does she need a lullaby?).
She...is nothing like Hag. The most analogous killers to her would probably be Wraith running Beast (his meme addon) or Demogorgon if he couldn't shred.
4 -
What does she have that other killers don't? Nothing, lol. She has a Freddy teleport on a longer, survivor controlled cooldown, stealth equal to that of Ghostface imho, and a bastardised version of Torment combined with RBTs. But what makes me better to me-again, not top tier, just better than the worst killer in the gane- is the combination of these things. Bringing together Freddy's teleport with some stealth, add in a tiny hint of game delay or a potential to insta kill with Condemned even if it could probably do with a slight buff and you get someone who excels at the 4v1 even if her 1v1 is awful. She's better than trash tier, because she has something that nobody else does and her kit is synoptic.
COH ruins her because it ruins the 4v1 and forces any and every killer to stick to the 1v1.
But, most importantly to me, she feels fresh. Pinhead, Nemesis, Artist, Slinger, Pyramid Head, Twins, Trickster- ever since Oni only one of these killers interested me. I've had no new content, essentially, for over a year and she feels like a well needed breath of fresh air. She may be weak (again, not trash though), but she's fun and she's new and exciting and that's why I love playing as and against her.
2 -
Buff her again.
5 -
Mm.
I guess that's where we differ here.
She doesn't feel 'fresh' to me at all. Artist felt fresh. Cenobite felt fresh. Twins, while not being brilliantly designed, still felt fresh. All of these killers brought something no other killer did.
She feels like some admittedly good visual/audio design slapped over a badly designed killer that needed to spend another month in the oven (insert Gordon Ramsey clip).
Her teleports are cute, but that's all she really has - and it has a massive cooldown, plus the ability for survivors to simply disable it (generally they don't bother though unless it's late game and 3 people are slamming out one gen). Her stealth may as well not exist - without addons, by the time she's close enough to hear the gen I'm working on, I know she's there and can prepare to run.
Playing against her...I don't think I've ever been killed by her unless she was facecamping or I gave her a 'pity kill' at the end. She's so easy to evade. Her stealth is inferior to GF because of the lullaby - there's no real surprise to her approach.
2 -
"All of these killers brought something no other killer did."
Artist has a mid-ranged attack and is an anti-loop no mobility killer, encouraging leaving the loop and holding w.
Pinhead has a mid-ranged attack and is an anti-loop limited mobility killer, encouraging leaving the loop and holding w.
Trickster has a mid-ranged attack and is an anti-loop no mobility killer, encouraging leaving the loop and holding w.
Nemesis has a short to mid ranged attack and is an anti-loop no mobility killer with an rng, uncontrollable secondary power, who encourages leaving the loop and holding w.
Very fresh.
2 -
How was your exp with her? What was your kill rate?
0 -
I think you're oversimplifying. I'll see if I can explain why.
Artist - Delayed projectile attack, can shut down loops and shove people off gens at extreme range. No other killer has anything like her projectiles. She was unique.
Pinhead - Directed projectile snare that can be spawned through walls, plus a secondary objective in the form of the box that has interesting counterplay and counter-counterplay. No killer has anything like this.
Trickster - Note that I didn't bring him up. He's not a well designed killer either.
Nemesis - Secondary power that doubles (triples?) as a detection tool, a passive slowdown/disruption and even a pathing blocker. It's a wild power that doesn't always work right, but it's certainly different.
But yes - basically every killer that isn't a trapper or an instadowner has a tool to at least partially shut down, bypass or mindgame loops - because that's sort of how the game is designed.
Having a killer without these tools doesn't make them interesting. It's like leaving the patty off a burger. You aren't making a new sort of hamburger - you're just making a terrible sandwich.
About on par with my Pig kill rate.
Initially I was doing okay, an equal balance of 1-3ks, with the odd 4o or 4k here and there. But a lot of those came from people either underestimating my lunge range due to my size, or not realizing how her teleports/condemn worked. Now people have started to figure out how vulnerable she is to bog standard looping, and just run to the closest safe tile and park there. There's nothing quite like having people run you through the log+main structure loop on Swamp with absolutely zero counterplay.
Her height is honestly more of a curse than a blessing - some loops have walls that survivors can see over, but she struggles to. Grass becomes corn. Corn becomes 'what the hell I can't see anything'.
2 -
"partially shut down, bypass or mindgame loops - because that's sort of how the game is designed."
Yes, but older killers (ie Billy, Wraith, Nurse even, Huntress) had much more to their anti loop then zone for free. Stay at loop, be hit. Run from loop, be hit.
This formula was sick with Demo. It was okay with Slinger. It was kinda boring with Pyramid Head. Everyone else that released and still copied it after that was just an unoriginal snoozefest. Because that is what the gameplay will always boil down to in a chase- reach a loop, get zoned, hold W to another loop as the killer mindgame themselves until you're inevitably downed because it won't work after 2-3 tries, and while you can sneak in a tiny loop here and there as soon as they figure out what you're doing you have to leave and return to W key.
That's why I call them boring and uninspired, because the main parts of their kits share identical counterplay and basically nothing else that can be consistently performed, particularly in solo queue.
But, we're getting off topic here anyway.
1 -
Eh.
Wraith pre-rework was a sad killer (Sadako reminds me of him at times). Now, while he doesn't have an anti-loop exactly, he can use his dash to overwhelm people at pallets or at least force a 50/50, plus he has a fantastic initiate that usually gets him a free hit. Sadako doesn't even have that.
Billy has an instadown. It's hard to land (I consider Billy to be the most difficult killer in the game, actually) but it completely bypasses the looping phase.
Nurse ignores loops completely.
Huntress is a projectile killer.
All of these killers have a tool to shorten chases and hook more effectively, which works. Because that's the purpose of the killer.
And yes - that's sort of how the game is designed. The goal of the survivors is to extend chases as long as possible to buy time for the other 3 to do stuff. The goal of the killer is to make chases as short as possible, in some cases also applying pressure via a secondary objective. How effectively they can do this is what determines the strength of a killer - and by this metric, Sadako is terrible.
I don't think it's OT. I think you've just perfectly illustrated both the reason Onryo feels so raw, and the core limitation of DbD design wise.
0 -
Can't spell Sadako without Sad.
3 -
Right on the nose. I actually get good value in majority of my games with CoB alone. Got to play 1 game before work today and ran BBQ, CoB, MS, and Unrelenting (don't judge just prestiged it's my only tier 3 perk). Went well had a gen regress to 0 with CoB, Unrelenting helped a bit as since I equipped the new outfit I miss more (Might be all in my head), BBQ is actually pretty decent on her (you know more than the BP), and Merciless storm blocks 1 gen a game. I 4k with 1 gen remaining. There are times her manifest/demanifest works great at loops and times it don't.
Wish they would have left Gearhead the same and buffed that. The aura is lame and gets hidden to much.
0 -
I did a challenge last night to see how fast I could get condemned to stack up on survivors and let's say it took essentially 5 gens and 2 addons (12% increased condemn rate while holding tapes and condemned on heal states on survivors) to do it and I did zero hooks just slugging and downs for maximum heals for condemned stacks on heal states.
Otherwise, it would have never happened, the only time it happens often is when the survivors are memeing or doing it to BM Sadako by bringing her to them and then putting in the tape in her face.
Condemned is a useless mechanic.
3 -
I really don't think she's that bad I put her just above wraith in terms of strength but by all means she nowhere near nurse level so I wouldn't call her one of the best but I'd put her at about B tier
0 -
One game isn’t enough to get an accurate feel for any killer. Even the strongest killers get destroyed by the occasional team especially on difficult maps. She could do with some buffs for sure but she still feels pretty solid to me. I’d say B tier but it’s early days.
Perks that combine slowdown with info seem to work well, allowing you to capitalise on her mobility more efficiently, and the addon that gives condemned on heal is one of the best, making condemned feel like more of a threat.
0 -
If it helps I have some tips. Since I also play stealth characters like Ghostface, and Myers. I found using tricks for them help a lot with Sadako and her de-manifest.
- Instead of going straight at Generator's/Survivors go around the outside, and try to put obstacles between you and them till you're close, then move around the obstacle behind another to get closer. You can't time your phases, but this at least helps keep you hidden while you phase in and out and if they notice you at all it's a lot less "there she is phasing in and out" to "there she is, where did she go? It's too late she's next to me, coming around the other side". You get a free hit before initiating a chase, and then you have to play the normal "I'm a m1 Killer" looping mind game.
- De-manifest around corners. Remember when you are not manifested you are Undetectable, and phase out intermittently. This means that you could phase out at a important hole in the wall or window making the Survivor miss how close you actually are. Then when you're about to go for the swing Manifest. It takes a bit getting used to for the timing and what not. Practice with Spirit/Wraith.
- De-manifest, and teleport to active T.V ahead of survivors during chases, and have them run into you. It's a skill I learned through Freddy, and not only does it feel cool, and awesome doing it, but it can give em a real good scare too.
- Exposed Perks I find are good on her, since she is just an m1 killer with good mobility Like Nurse, Spirit, and Freddy etc. Make Your Choice last's 60 seconds, and is useful for timing Decisive Strike, while at the same time encourages chasing the savior instead. When testing other Exposed perks, I liked Dragon's Grip, Starstruck, and Devour Hope - in that order.
- Always care more about hooking than getting your Mori. When I first played her I found I was getting Mori's left and right because no one would play her secondary objective or at least were still figuring it out, and I'm sure me testing her Add-On's did not help. However as players started to learn to face her (still are) her cool Mori became less and less available. Now I rarely get a chase to use her full condemn Mori. User her power primarily for mobility.
- Hit and Run is one of her strongest playstyles to use, but that playstyle is practically dead with the introduction of Boons (CoH), honestly just do your best to snowball, break boons when it's convenient. I use Sloppy Butcher myself to take a bit of the load off when against CoH.
For perks you are probably going to want to run one or two information perks to find survivors and teleport to their nearest television. An Exposed perk, gen regression, and some saboteur / anti loop (Brutal Strength, Bamboozle, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Sloppy Butcher etc)
Basically you're playing a dog baby of Ghostface, Myers, Spirit, and Freddy. Practice with killers like that, and those skills will transfer over to Sadako.
2 -
Interesting.
Why would you put her above Wraith, out of interest?
I've been playing her, Wraith and Demo a lot to compare them, and Wraith just feels so much more consistent in securing downs in a timely fashion. That dash when coming out of stealth...wow do I miss it on Sadako.
0 -
I personally think Sadako has insaneee potential. In a handful of games that I finally had perks I liked (bbq, pain res, plaything, devour) I 4K devoured Coal Tower, Coldwind, and Dead Dawg. RCPD I only had spies and death bound but 3k’d with hatch and 2 condemned mori’s. I swapped out Devour for STBFL last night for a match when I saw a Michayla with a map.. CoH, shadowstep, boon Unbreakable and boon 2% speed.. literally only one person didn’t have a boon build because they were going for sabo’s.. to be fair i probably only killed them all because they were too busy booning and re-booning lol. Teleports and STBFL literally carried.
The roughest game so far was against a really good group on Badham. Definitely better survivors than I am a killer too but I was happy just to pull off one condemned stare by end game.
0 -
I’ve been having good games with Sadako so far. She feels more fluid than Wraith in her stealth since she can maintain survivor speed while Manifesting whereas Wraith has to come almost to a stop and give the survivor up to about 7 meters distance by the time he gets a chance to lunge. She also remains on and off invisible after Manifesting which further helps confuse survivors which direction you’re coming from in a lot of instances. And her teleport is useful for scouting and patrols. Ironically her Condemned is probably the weakest part of her kit, I’ve gotten a handful of Condemned kills but it’s really her stealth and teleports that’s paying off the most.
0 -
Placed against one on RPD last night and she got 11 hooks including 1 condemned mori. She's not half bad imo
1 -
She has an ability that provides good hit and run and there are alot of tvs on the maps, even if they take a tape there's a TV right nearby within eyesight more than likely, and you still get a dash when coming out of manifest that can make survivors either pre drop or take a hit at a safe pallet, her teleport isn't as limited as demo and provides informatiom on which TV's cant be used aka where a survivor is working on a gen and doesn't want you to come , demo has a better shred but with the way her abilities work and the builds that can be ran on her she's stronger than wraith in my opinion but not demo. Just the different options make her stronger than wraith because he's limited to only one power that everyone knows how to counter at this point and not only that but wraith can be harassed by flashlights and burned.
1 -
If I play off-peak hours when matchmaking actually works, every Sadako I've faced has averaged under 5 hooks total for the entire match. It's a massacre. I've gone against her 5 times today and none of them have managed more than 1k. A couple got less than 3 hooks. I don't recall a killer being this weak in some time. Against a full lobby of decent multi-thousand hour survivors, she has next to nothing going for her.
4 -
Pallet city vs M1 killer with minimal perks.
Think anyone could see what was going to happen.
3 -
But I've played against her and seen other people play her, and she is an M1 killer. It's not like I was going in blind.
0 -
They say "She's not weak. You're missing out. You just have to play her right." So on and so forth.
1 -
The team must have been potatoes then.
1 -
"He should be 110% and shouldn't be able to down you while you're chained."
0 -
But people are acting like this killer can overcome anything and I just don't see it.
1 -
I don't think anyone is doubting that she is an M1 killer. She is an M1 killer with stealth abilities and a teleport (which the average M1 killer doesn't have). No one has ever said she is Nurse though.
Also, just because you have a perspective as survivor isn't the same as when you actually play that killer. This goes for any killer you try for the first time.
1 -
I've played several games with her and I'm putting her IMO around C+ tier. From what I can tell the games can swing either way you either do well or get destroyed because she has nothing to help her with chases, have to play a hit and run style. She does have great map mobility though so she can do well in large maps.
On The Game map though... with 30 God pallets have to put up with its her worst map there was nothing I could do to get them.
1 -
A killer isn't inadequated for the game Just because you won or Lost a game, Just stop
0 -
I've played over 100 games on Sadako and she's rubbish, and my MMR is high due to the huntress spam I do (other killers share a percentage of your best killer) every game is a sweat every survivor has meta perk and efficiency.
She's got no redeeming feature which killers that wraith can do better for example.
3 -
I mean every m1 killer with no looping tools is less than 5 hooks. Its not like pig or whatever is gonna do better.
@danielmaster87 Danielmaster just need follow @RenAmamiya post. Just get good. Just learn Sadako blinks.
0 -
Wraith COULD use his speed boost out of cloak to 50/50 people at WEAK pallets. Not anymore. His slowdown more than makes up for the fact that he's fast in cloak and gets a speed boost when he comes out of it. He's a very safe, survivor-oriented killer now.
0 -
Yeah, but there's a case to be made that Sadako has fewer tools than all of the gutter tier killers. Even Legion gets a free health state+game delay and tracking. And Pig at least gets some RNG delay if she manages to down someone. Sadako has mobility for the sake of mobility, and that's it.
2 -
She and Wraith are both awful.
0 -
Shrug. I play a fair amount of Wraith these days, and I watch a few other streamers that play Wraith. Yes, you use it at weak pallets, but you can also use it at switchbacks, so long as you have some sort of LOS breaker. Basically you rotate until you drop out of sight, immediately decloak and then come around. At worst it's a 50/50 or they leave the loop (correct response). He can also do a lot of shenanigans with bodyblocking, or with his silent bell addon.
Now...what exactly can Sadako do at the same pallet?
He needs a buff, but I'd still reckon him better than Sadako.
She's not quite Legion bad. I'd put her about on par with Pig, maybe slightly above Clown. She can do well on specific maps (like Pig) or with specific addons (also like Pig), but her toolkit is bad and RNG, and doesn't really fit with the way this game is played in 2022.
I've played about 60, and I'll give her...two points of partial credit.
- Some of her addons aren't bad at all, and when using them parts of her kit feel about right. Ring Drawing+Net makes Condemn feel almost useful, and Watch+Hair makes her stealth feel a lot more impactful. These three addons could safely be baked in, and she'd be low 'B' tier.
- She can be okay on Midwich and The Game, if you get lucky and are able to frequently apply Condemn to multiple survivors incidental to teleports.
0
