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My first game with Sadako shows the game wasn't ready for her
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So you're saying she's strong?
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Them add-ons are the only ones that have some meaningful effect I took the survivors to Midwich and I didn't hook anyone and just slugged and hit them and it took 4 gens to get my first condemned mori and that was with both of the addons getting the survivors with the tvs.
Even with them healing each other constantly it took forever to get it high enough for one survivor.
I was using these perks because obviously, I couldn't hook; crows, call of brine, eruption and NOED.
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What are legion's chase tools? none. Pig's ambush dash is weak and irrelevant. My point is that gutter killers are just as effective as Sadako is. By that I mean that their powers have little to no impact on outcome of the match. The less than 5 hook result is the same for all of the killers during prime time. There is lack of skill-expression for the killer from having ineffective ability.
Its why I find RenAmaiya comment on Sadako priceless comedy.
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Oh and I believe her lunge is bugged too, so many times I've tried to lunge and it only does a swing.
And pressing her ability by accident stops her from using it again or a swing for like 3 seconds.
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The really sad part is that survivors aren't even playing against her that well because she's so weak that you don't have to learn to counter her. But for the survivors that do know how to counter her, it's a full on counter. I had a SWF that I versed that disabled all teleports on one side of the map, completed all those gens and then completed all the gens on the other half and did the same thing. I could not teleport at all that whole game unless I wanted to teleport away from them. And because returning a television turns the television off they weren't even getting condemned for doing it. I went and tried the same thing as survivor after that game, and I found that I could turn off all the generators near any generator that had any progress and stay at between 0 and 3 condemned the whole game. It's so powerful that if all 4 survivors were to turn off tvs they could turn off all the tvs in the map all the time. (That's obviously not optimal because you wouldn't be getting generators done) but my point is that you don't need to, you only need one person. And because you're taking video tapes away from generators that are being worked on you're also preventing other survivors from getting condemned.
The only time this killer is any good at all is when survivors ignore the TVs, then she's mid C tier. But if survivors know how to counterplay her, she has her stealth and only her stealth. She is F tier, she is worse than freddy was pre-buff by a significant amount.
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In parts, yes. She has one of the (If not only the) strongest map pressure. She's only weak in chaves, so you have to train mindgames and another abilities in chases. And I think she is one of the most fun killers
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My first match as Sadako literally was on Gideon Meat Plant, too. I only was able to secure a single kill by camping someone to death during lategame. During the match itself I only was able to score two hooks before gens popped. Truly a miserable experience, and it was against a group of red rank players. So much for the MMR being separate for every killer, it was just a blatant genrush.
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It's not separate unfortunately the majority of your MMR of the highest killer is brought forward on any other killer you may play.
You could be a god at nurse and then decide to play your baby trapper with no perks and you'll get the same matches of MMR as nurse.
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Then why the heck are killerplayers still not allowed to switch characters in the lobby if the MMR clearly doesn't differentiate between killers anymore?
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Strongest map pressure? If you teleport to a TV it turns off for around 40 seconds and then if you do it to every TV you'll have no way to teleport.
(That's if the survivors don't keep turning them off as well, they can turn off like 4 TV's before condemned has any effect)
They can keep them off and you can never teleport.
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Legion has what I'd call a secondary chase tool, in that he is able to keep a lot of people injured, potentially shortening chase. Still a terrible killer.
Pig's dash isn't great, but it's hardly irrelevant. You just (unfortunately) need to use addons to make it worthwhile. I play a bit of Pig here and there, and I often use it to force 50/50s in loops.
And scoring is far more bonkers than that. Just try Iri pipping on Myers, compared to say Wraith.
I played a fair bit of her (going to put her aside to see what BHVR do next, going back to learning Ghostface). I've also watched a lot of people playing her on stream.
What seems to fool survivors is that her size makes them underestimate the distance of her lunge.
Condemn is just going to be a problem mechanic (an insta mori at 0 hooks is impossible to balance), it should be Exposed with a mori at 2 hooks, and tweak the values up substantially.
What really lets me down is her terrible, janky and unreliable 'stealth'. That was what excited me about her (I'm a big fan of stealth killers, to the extent that I've made stealth builds for even the most unga bunga killers).
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You don't need to abuse the teleport. And If someone get a file, don't permit him turn off another tv. You Just need to be inteligent about How comit a chase and how many teleports you do. She's not the best killer, but I think it's a exaggeration saying she's not prepared for the game Just because you Lost some matches. If this is the case, I could say Doctor should be deleted, for example. Do you understand my point?
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You don't even need to add a 2 hook requirement for her mori because the likelihood of every getting it is like 10% if the survivors ignore the tapes and don't stand near TVs. (I think the aura is 6meters to trigger condemned)
There's no way to see if someone has a file there's no icon, no item in the survivor's hands.
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If I remember we used to be able to change killer in the lobby but maybe my memory from a long time ago is distorted.
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what in the world is secondary chase tool? He has pseudo exposed mechanic because he only needs a single hit to get a down but has no ability to confirm the final hit. I think you do not understand what I mean by all m1 killers fall under same blanket of effectiveness vs strong survivor players.
Here's coconut video that perfectly illustrates my point for how most killers that ineffective abilities play out. game 1 is shorten between 3:30-4:51. game 2 is 5:07-13:33.
In coconuts words at 9:45-10:05 "we can barely get a single m1 in. On one person. it is all we need, a single m1 hit, How do you do it? How do you even hit them? How do you get a single M1 hit?" after chasing nea for minutes on end.
The answer is. You don't. Strong looping survivor make very little mistakes in the loops themselves such as that m1 killers(115%) do not really get m1 hits. You need survivor to make looping mistakes for you to be successful as killer. This is my point. That game on Ironwork of misery was 2 hook legion game. You see, only hits that legion ever got was with his ability and intentional body blocking. That is in a nutshell why people say Legion is weak.
There is strategy behind countering pig dash. I cannot be bothered to go into detail with it. What I am trying say conclusively is that anti-loop abilities are only way for killer to express any skill towards the game because those only times where killer get legit hits in a chase. The only time you get hit as survivor when your good is killer powers. Sadako is same as all other C-D lower tier killers. You cannot get better as killer against safe pallets if you have no method to outplay safe looping.
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They're nowhere near the best but you have to admit her base kit is better because it basically is his power except with passive phasing and no bell and she can teleport so that automatically puts her right above him especially with a potential free kill if you have bots who hold the tape too long
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Secondary chase tool = not an anti-loop or a gap-closer, which would be a primary chase tool. I'd classify things like instadowns and strong engages as secondary.
Legion is a...terrible killer, but can still do some good stuff.
Yes, Wraith, Legion, Onryo and Pig (among others) simply do not fit the game as it's played in 2022 because savvy survivors know how to loop them, meaning that your only real choice is to catch someone injured in the open, down them and try to convert that into a snowball, generally by camping or slugging.
I still manage to pull stuff off with Pig Dash, but it's very map dependant.
I don't.
Her basekit = janky, unreliable stealth and passive phasing, teleports and a mostly negligible secondary objective. One of these is almost pointless, one is okay but not spectacular, one is completely pointless on most maps.
About the only area where she beats out Wraith is a situation where she has to travel from one side of a massive map to another very quickly. And Wraith isn't far off, as while she can teleport once, he can sprint over multiple times as needed.
The core area where Wraith takes the unambiguous lead is that he can at least engage well, and score a lot of easy hits - especially with stuff like gen tracking addons and the silent bell. Hell, with these I can get grabs sometimes.
Sadako can't do this. Everything she does is telegraphed to hell and back, meaning that you are essentially a plain-Jane M1 killer for most of the game. Wraith gets one easy hit then struggles to get a second. She doesn't get that first easy hit.
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I'm pretty sure she is no stronger than clown, she is just M1 killer with all the counterable and unreliable side-effect which doesn't affect matches at all, she would stomp newbies and could have decent kill rate, but that's only because there is lot of newbies who don't know what she does at all.
Everything she does to survivor is basically counterable, nothing is actually threatening, everything is telegraphed, can disable powers entirely, it's pretty obvious she can't do well against anyone decent.
100 seconds, not 40 seconds, at least in PTB.
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This is about my impression of her. She reminds me of Pig (in that she's mostly a pure M1 killer that can't really handle high MMR groups with any reliability), pre-rework Wraith in that savvy survivors are ready to run the second she appears and you struggle to get even the first hit and Demogorgon (minus his gap closer).
Initially I had her at 'C' tier, just behind Wraith. After playing her more and people starting to figure her out, I'd drop her to high 'D' tier, just ahead of Pig.
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I actually agree with pretty much everything you said. She definitely needs some buffs. Still enjoying her, but I know she could be so much better.
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I would not put her on the same tier as Clown. Clown is way better. His power is definitely pretty strong in the 1v1 if you are tunneling people with it. Bleach clown just got nerfed it was so good.
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See, Pinky Finger I at least see where people are coming from. They don't want to deal with instadowns. But beyond that add-on, I never heard people complaining about Clown's add-ons. Flask Of Bleach didn't even seem that strong to me. While I was using it, I was like, "Wow. If he's weak with this, how does he feel without it?" He's just one of those killers: very add-on dependent. And despite that, people want his add-ons nerfed. I'll never understand it.
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Well, If I can go that far, sure, she is worse than clown.
Clown is one of few who can actually "counter" DS in some way... which is quite good too.
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He is very add-on dependent. But the difference between his best addons vs not is basically a different killer. 4 stock bottles is 8 seconds of slowdown per reload? Technically more if you hit the gas cloud right on them or force them to run through the entire cloud but to make things easy im not counting that.
6 bottles of ether is 18 seconds of slowdown. Literally over a 100% increase in power per reload. I don't think any other killer has that same dynamic.
Bleach made him very nasty in the hands of a veteran killer, making a ton of normally safe tiles very unsafe. And he did it so reliably as well. Pyramid head or Nemesis or Artist etc you can outplay but Clown? You eat a bottle and you drop that pallet or you take the hit. Very strong for how easy it was. Even if his skillcap is ultra high now.
It probably got hit because really good clowns were combining it with the yellow bottles and it was actually OP. I could see that even if I barely use his yellow bottles myself. Going with beefed up purple bottles was still enough to shut down all but the most obnoxious loops in the game relatively effortlessly.
Of course, lots of baby killers will tell you Clown is terrible because they don't use bleach or ether + extra bottles.
He also has the best wallhacks in the game right now. Cigar box is pretty nuts.
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You overestimate Clown. At best, his slowdown forces the survivor to drop the pallet instead of looping around it 1 more time. His bottles barely help him around loops if survivors don't play greedy. Clown isn't OP under any circumstances, not even with Pinky Finger. If a killer can't win by chasing a kicking gens, and instead had to tunnel and force 2nd stage all the time, they're weak, and that's what Clown is. You're acting like he gets max value from his bottles every time, like whoever's playing him is a supercomputer. How does he have less counterplay than Artist? You can wave her ability off while you're running. And I guess those wall hacks from Cigar Box need nerfing, right, because All-Seeing Blood got nerfed?
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Then you are not playing him correctly. With Bleach or Ether you can get hits at many normally safe pallets. Even when they are down. I naturally gravitate towards the stronger killers in this game and I put clown right up with them. There is a reason I play him so much. His lack of mobility is made up for purely through tunneling.
Regular clown play involves you just mindlessly throwing a bottle, and then the survivor throws the pallet and you kick it and repeat endlessly until you lose. But, as I said, a veteran player playing clown is what makes him good. You need to know every loop in the game. I know what pallets are safe, I know what pallets are not safe. I have played every map hundreds of times. Combine that with the skill to preemptively place the bottles. That's probably more than 95% of killers in this game, but I am at that level.
You cannot overstate consistency as a factor in a killers power. Pyramid head can be juked, Artist can be juked, Nemesis can easily be juked if you are not on top of your game. Clown cannot; the worst you can really do is land a regular bottle. The best you can do is force people to run through entire clouds. It's so much harder to screw up a clown bottle than a Nemesis whip.
And yes, Cigar Box is way better than All-Seeing Blood. 16m on a killer going 125% who can attack straight away compared to 8m on a killer who needs to ring the bell first.
My favorite streamer is doing MMR Winstreaks right now, and Clown is literally at the top. With 60 wins in a row. He also considers clown strong, is what I consider a veteran killer, and has 7,000+ hours.
Barring a map entirely full of god pallets he is a very strong killer. The dev's themselves have decided he was too strong. I don't really need confirmation.
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