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Compromise to make the game play better
Get rid of SWFs, get rid of ingame chat both pre and post. And get rid of the basement.
I will explain my reasoning. First, SWFs, they were never suppose to be in this game. Look at the game itself, it's designed to be 4 solo Q survivors against 1 killer. And we know this because first 50% of the abilities are based around information where everyone is, and second notice how none of the survivors come with a headset, or a radio? Yea that's by design. SWF has a always been a really bad option in this game, because with SWF the survivors can literally tailor their builds around just telling each other where the killer is, and that's a huge advantage.
Next is chat, chat has never served in any positive light EVER. In pregame it's designed to once again circumvent the ability to play solo Q blindly, and in post game it's designed for trolling, because what else does anyone ever say? If you want people to be able to say GG endgame, just make it a clickable button and remove chat entirely.
And finally the basement. Killers exploit that way WAYYY too much, there are killers like trapper and hag that are designed around that place being inescapable. So yea, it needs to be removed heavily.
Update: For all the people going "this game would die without SWF". First no it wouldn't, because without SWF it would simply be more balanced. Second no one is saying you can't play with your friends, I'm saying you wouldn't be able to play with your friend in any match that isn't custom. And let's face it you don't enjoy playing with friends for the "fun", you enjoy doing it because you have an advantage over the killer. Because every other aspect of the game could be done without being in a group with your friends. You can still talk to each other, you can still joke, but the aspects you're looking for is being able to 1 up killers by giving away positions and telling each other what's going on. And there's a name for that. CHEATING.
Comments
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SWF can't be removed. Having the ability to play with friends and then having it taken away would be outrageous. SWFs get an unfair advantage, but removing it entirely is a bad idea.
Chat is chat. Just don't look at it, or block messages if you're on console.
Basement is probably the only area on any given map where the killer has some amount of guaranteed power. You can't take that away. Not only is it a central part of the game (since the beginning, unlike hatch), but we need more than 2 killers to be viable before we even think about encroaching on one of the few innate advantages killers have.
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First SWF is a mode, it can absolutely be taken away, as you have stated it is entirely unfair, and as such should be removed on principle. Chat removal has to come with the removal of SWF because if you remove SWF but not chat they can simply link their discord in chat circumventing it's removal, hence chat must go.
Basement is an unfair advantage for the killer, just like SWF is an unfair advantage for the player, ergo it's only fair that it has to go.
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Imagine suggesting something that would kill the game instantly.
Removing people's ability to play with their friends would destroy this game.
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If that is the only thing keeping this game alive, then it's a bad game, flat out. Because what you've just stated is that a mode that is inherently designed to circumvent standard play is the only thing keeping this game alive.
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News flash.
The ability to play with your friends is the only thing keeping a lot of games alive. That's kind of the whole premise of MULTIplayer games. I know a lot of people, myself included, that only play DBD because of our friends.
All of your suggestions are commonly expressed by newer players. I can give you some tips and tricks to better deal with certain situations, if you like.
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Eh.
The issue isn't SWF. People...want to play with friends.
The issue is that SWFs do not get any sort of matchmaking adjustment, which is sort of the industry standard - leading to some very lopsided games.
FYI, you can disable postgame and pregame chat with a single click. I generally have it turned off, and only enable it if I want to say something.
The basement is fine. It's designed to be a death trap. If it feels like you're going to go down, don't let it happen near the basement.
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I'm not a new player, and I personally have not experienced issues with SWFs, I'm simply stating what I know would be a vast improvement to a very dismal aspect of this game. And btw this isn't a standard pvp game, this is an asymmetric pvp, it's quite a bit different. And furthermore the way this game was designed it wasn't setup for playing with friends. Which is why you don't start out with 4 survivors from the same town or even the same horror story, they're designed to be loners with a common goal, not 4 friends trying to beat 1 enemy.
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SWFs have no adjustment because there's no way to adjust them. I had a post where I went into this at some length when it came to MMR ratings and SWFs, but the issue is there's no real way to adjust for an outside factor, because you'd have to not only adjust for people playing together, but also the high probability of them playing on coms, which it's impossible to adjust to. Because if the players can speak to each other then most of your vision perks are unnecessary. It's skews the entire game. Which is why SWFs must be removed. There is no true compensator for them. The game chat has to be removed in that instance otherwise people would use it as a discord end around to the SWF removal, and the basement removal is a balance to the removal of SWF and chat.
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A better solution, to my mind, would be to do what...basically all other team games with an MMR matchmaking system does.
Essentially, you get a scaling multiplier to your MMR when grouped up. Say, 1.1x for a 2man, 1.3x for a 3man and 1.5x for a 4man to offset in the increased communication by giving you a stronger opponent.
See above.
Get net average of the survivors in a SWF. Apply the corresponding multiplier to their MMR for the purposes of matchmaking.
It won't completely fix the issue, but it will definitely help.
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But the multiplier makes no difference if you lose, which you will most of the time if they communicate. The way MMR works right now is its based around 2 very specific principles. Either you die in which case the survivor loses, or you escape, in which case the survivor wins. Now of course there are other points to calculate for a bunch of stuff, but those are the only 2 that truly register. And with respect to that having communication greatly increases your chances of escape as survivor.
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I don't mean to be rude or anything but to come out and say "Swfs were never meant to be in this game" despite the fact the developers of the game made the conscious decision to make it a thing and have stated so multiple times is a silly statement to make if you ask me.
You're conflating 'SWF' with 'SWF on external voice comms'.
It's important to make that distinction because the way SWFing works in the game is fine and doesn't change anything about the game or how it's played, it's the external voice communication and coordination aspect of the game that changes it which and let's be reasonable here, is completely out of BHVRs control.
You can play a SWF without voice comms and outside of maybe knowing what perks each other are running (Which is a base game feature in dbd mobile btw) it doesn't factor into how a match plays out.
People playing with their friends isn't the problem and it never has been
The problem is the fact that playing with friends provides crucial information needed for coordination that puts them leagues above a team of 4 solos.
A lot of mistakes made in solo q are typically made due to either lack of information or lack of game sense, both of which are compensated with voice comms because you can actually yell at that meg and go "Hey stop walking and get on a gen" (This is a joke, don't be mean to ur buddies).
Also a really dumb petty joke I wanted to make - Chris Redfield has an earpiece. I guess he's the only survivor canonically allowed to use discord
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To say that the devs judgement is the determining factor would be to state the devs know what they're doing. And if you look around both these forums and all the other game forums for this game you'll see, that they clearly don't. The second point of your argument is that SWFs are only a problem while on coms, which is not true. Any half way decent SWF will coordinate their perks before they even join que, that way they can optimize and get the most out of their team. And yes coms are a huge issue, but there's literally no way around it short of removing SWFs, because with SWFs in the game there will always be a way to use coms. Which is why my position is they must go.
I like your joke, Chris Redfield may keep his com, but not the SWF that goes with it. 😋
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Listen I don't believe BHVR is the most well informed dev team when it comes to matters of balance and the like but they want SWF to be a thing and so it is. There's no changing that in my eyes. All you achieve by removing the feature is alienate people who like to play with friends (which isn't always 4 people as well remember). Alienation that doesn't make the game any better as a result either.
Like I said, coordinating perks is a feature that should be in the base game like DBD mobile. We can see what items we all have (Which yes I know is crucial information for killers too), why not perks as well?
To me, Comms is definitively what makes SWF potentially problematic to balance, take old object for example. Stuff like that. I'm not putting blind faith in BHVR or anything I just don't fully believe the solution to a problem is alienating people just playing the game. That's what SWFs are at the end of the day
Yes they can be annoying, unbalanced gremlins who stack the game in their favour - the tools for them to do that exist in the game. Map offerings, perks and so on.
But then you've got two people who just play the game together for fun, I don't see how that's such a big problem y'know?
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The problem isn't the amount of people who play together, it's the fact that if you have SWF there's no way to prevent coms, there just isn't. The feature of having more than 1 person, guarantees that those people can find a way to communicate. By removing SWF you eliminate that possibility.
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Get rid of basement? then we have to get rid of killer shack too.
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Multiplayer is multiplayer. If this game gets rid of being able to play with your friends, it will die. So, if you want to kill it, be my guest.
Also, the Devs have literally said that SWF is an intended feature.
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Removing swf would effectively kill the game dead by daylight has really been known for the past 5 years as that cool multiplayer horror game with horrible balancing
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Umm SWF isn't the only pvp aspect of this game, it isn't even a main aspect of pvp. It's not pvp at all. The pvp part is players vs killer. The players playing together has nothing to do with the pvp aspect of the game.
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Why? The killer shack is still a place to have both as a loop spot, and a trap spot, it works perfectly well even when the basement doesn't appear there.
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No, it would only kill the ability for survivors to overwhelmingly cheat in the game, which wouldn't kill much of anything. It would only balance the game more.
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Because killer shack is extremely survivor-sided strong structure, it's only balanced with basement countermeasure.
Now it doesn't exist anymore, we have to remove it.
It's not like every killer is a trapper, you may not know it but it's a fact.
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It could be adjusted to be less survivor friendly, but there's no need to remove it outright. And bare in mind there are places far more survivor friendly on every map, like the ship, or the giant house.
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I'm going to respectfully ask that you check your biases.
Nobody has agreed with you. What you've proposed has been shown and demonstrated to be a terrible idea. If you actualIy want to improve the game, you need to go back to the drawing board.
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Main structure is simply broken, maybe that as well be removed because we gonna remove basement.
If we fix it, there is no reason to keep it neither.
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A bunch of people who haven't made a single valid point to dispute mine don't actually make a collective of suggestions that amount to anything. The only thing I've seen on this thread is the following.
"it will kill the game because it will ruin pvp" - it won't because the pvp aspect has never depended on SWF and still doesn't.
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The reason to keep it is because it's one of the central divides, in this game one of the main components is how they divide up each level to be just challenging enough to be loopable, but not so challenging to where survivors can loop forever.
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>get rid of basement
No, that's where i can guarantee myself a brown toolbox
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Okay.
You aren't arguing in good faith. I apologize for falling for the bait.
I'mma head out
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I'm arguing in completely good faith, you just haven't presented any sound arguments, and don't like the fact that I have.
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Not needed, just put a jungle or two.
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A jungle has some loop potential but in a corner where the killer shack usually sits you need something larger for a really good loop, plus a good deal of the time it blocks the line of sight for the escape doors, and that's also another thing it adds to the level.
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Removing SWF would hurt the game far more than it would help. If people want to play with their friends, they'll just lobby dodge until they end up in a lobby together assuming they don't just move on to a different game that supports queueing up together.
Survivors have access to strong tiles on every map, so it's only fair killers get a strong tile too.
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You shouldn't have a good loop without basement.
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DBD -is- a bad game though. There's a solid concept, but it's buried underneath some really bad design decisions that are accumulating more and more strain on the playerbase's enjoyment.
And no, removing swiffers is not a step in the right direction.
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SWF hurts the balance indefinitely, even with competent devs(which we don't have), there's no way around the overwhelming advantage that survivors have on coms. And this has been proven repeatedly in tournaments. Even the best killers in the world agree that SWFs simply give too much of an unfair advantage.
And as far as strong tiles are concerned, basement isn't a strong tile, it's a graveyard.
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Why not? Killer shack isn't guaranteed a basement even right now, and yet it's still a good loop.
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You can't remove SWF because if you do then all the SWF people will be sad and they'll quit and the game will die.
Please ignore the game bleeding players caused by bad balance such as allowing SWF.
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Hence why the devs are looking at giving solo survivors more tools to communicate rather than removing SWF.
Then pay attention to where the basement is and don't let yourself get downed close to it.
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I agree with the first part, but SWFs are absolutely part of the problem. It's in the game design. If this were a game where people naturally communicated that would be one thing. But half the concept is that there is a fundamental lack of communication between survivors.
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That won't solve anything, it will only compound the problem. Solo survivors playing better isn't even an issue. I play solo survivor and win most of my games in rank 1. Solo survivors are not weak and don't need more tools. SWFs simply need to be removed for balance because their existence ruins any chance at balance and any chance at getting proper untainted MMR stats.
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If anyone quits this game over SWF then they weren't gonna stick around either way. And despite what people like to think this game is not losing players. In fact it's numbers keep going up.
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"Imagine playing with friends, despicable. Delete SWF!!1!"
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And you are asking to make queue times really long as people lobby dodge to get paired with their friends or people stop play altogether because there are other games that allow people to queue up with friends.
You can't solve a problem by adding different problems.
But you can continue to act as some gatekeeper who think people shouldn't be allowed to play with their friends. There's nothing more to add to someone who wants to act like a brick wall.
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I mean the alternative is, leave something in the game the devs have to now balance around and release imbalanced content because of it, and watch players slowly bleed out of this game due to attrition.
It reminds me of archeage and "ALTS" everybody knew how broken having multiple accounts all pooling their resources into 1 would be but every publisher kept it in the game anyway, to their own demise. Every event would be exploited by alts, every thing meant to level the playing field for 1 person got exploited by people multi boxing, every reward got nerfed because alts would end up with too much if you gave a good reward, grind was made exponential to account for alt character resource funneling. Items were made untradable because of alts, etc etc etc. Every version of the game except the Korean one (the one without alts) went down the drain because "MUH MONEY! We need those alt accounts to pay for "things and stuff"
I could write a book about how it slowly tore down the game. But we don't have that kinda time.
And in regards to archeage leaving in a slow rotting toxic mechanic. The game is now dead. A corpse. Cities are all empty, new players gone, old players either too invested to leave or begrudgingly continuing because one of their friends are still there. And its been through 2 publishers 1 of which went bankrupt and now no longer exists. It just goes to show you how leaving something in the game you know is problematic will result. Especially when no other options are given to circumvent said problem. This game is no different with its SWF catering. Its the elephant in the room everybody has to tip toe around because fear of "MUH FRIENDS, MUH MONEY". In the short term you get to make quick cash and have your friendlyness, in the long term the game bleeds players. Friendships move around, people move on to other things. And its easy to remember the problematic things in a game, its incredibly difficult to have the good parts of a game outshine the bad ones. So people bleed out. Content creators stop creating content. Things get stale and eventually die. I don't want DBD to die, but I've seen the writing on the wall enough times in games to see it coming from a mile away. Direction hasn't changed. People are more frustrated than having fun. It all adds up.
This games been down trending for the past 6 months after the release of one of the most anticipated licenses to ever hit this game. And the accumulation of problems has finally struck peoples limits. I been watching things like this play out for years, multiple games. Slow bleed is starting. Things need to change, and drastically.
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They don't have to remove it. But the thing is they don't offer an option to circumvent the problematic nature of it. Its like Bethesda leaving something broken in a game and then claiming its a "feature". Without giving you any way to patch and fix the bug if you don't like playing the buggy version of the game.
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You can also just add comms to normal survivors but also have killers be able to speak as well. Solos get the opportunity to speak up and get some form of communication and killers can speak because yes.
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- Removing SWF would literally kill the game.
- You can hide the chat.
- I do agree basement should be changed/removed but I think removal of the basement should be an option that should be considered last.
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Why bother arguing for a change that the devs will NEVER implement?
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May I recommend uninstalling the game and never looking back?
Because your stance isn't just harshly incompatible with DBD, it's harshly incompatible with modern multiplayer gaming on an industry level. The facilitation and even encouragement of social play is quite simply more important than any individual game or genre's balance can ever dream of being, and the best any developer can ever do about it is balance around it to the best of their ability.
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But the issue there isn't any balancing around swfs.
Plenty could be done to balance a swf vs solo queue, adding handicaps, slower repair speed, healing speed, faster hook progress faster killer speed.
Anything,
making it duo only for ranked or awarding bp in kyf mode. There just ends up being band aids throw at issues that swfs create/exploit, i.e Boilover rpd etc.
So they nerf a fine perk because when used in co ordination it just creates a rubbish game. So who suffers for that? Solo Survs who use Boilover as intended.
Is balance done around swfs or solo? High mmr, low mmr, Dbd have their fingers in a 1000 holes trying to plug a dam and it just doesn't work.
They need to step back and decide what are we balancing the game on. It took Blizzard 10+ years to finally make talents that were for pvp only, rather than people using pve talents in rated pvp which got those pve talents nerfed and just made lives hell for non pvpers.
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