Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
DBD to shows SWFs and those who cheat on comms
Comments
-
This content has been removed.
-
The takeaway is that the developers have failed to properly add voice chat to the game for years now and instead rely on bandaid fixes like Discord channels / rooms.
🦆🦂
0 -
I don't know how you live with the injustice, but given BHVR's stance, you'll just have to deal, my friend.
4 -
BHVR didn't have an entire area in their Discord dedicated to helping players implement stretched res. They do dedicate part of their Discord server to helping connect players so they can be on voice comms while playing DbD. You are accusing BHVR of encouraging and helping players to cheat.
5 -
This content has been removed.
-
Missing a step there, mate.
Is it an advantage? Absolutely.
Is it unfair? No moreso than having a nicer PC or better headphones. Sure, it's not within everyone's grasp, but considering it's just as much a default assumption of game creation as a keyboard and monitor, it isn't cheating.
The bit that everyone misses is that using comms isn't going to go anywhere. Classify it as cheating, and all that means is that there's one form of cheating you can't do anything about and have to balance around. It's functionally useless to make it out as cheating, because so what? Let's say it is. What are you gonna do about it?
1 -
Yes.
One of the reasons, from several years ago, why they don't want to add it is because there are always people who are annoying on voice chat. Which could be solved with a mute button.
🦆🦂
0 -
Need a little SWF icon next to their name in the lobby, so that the killer can choose to sweat or not, and what perks not to bother with like dark devotion.
2 -
Imagine if the game was 4 killers vs 1 survivor who has to hide and escape and the killers all had access to comms to provide map-wide communication.
The survivor wouldn't have a chance, and here you are in DBD as a killer.
Good luck playing a killer like Myers or Trapper, they've already reported to their friends where your traps are or your location before you've done anything.
1 -
Why do they need to code comms into the game when there are already a million and one ways to chat with people while playing? Xbox and PS have comms built into the system. I think a large number of people playing DbD would turn off comms, anyway, unless they're already playing with their friends. I would turn off comms. And then you would have players flocking to the forums to complain about the survivors who refuse to use comms and are tanking the match because of it.
Post-game text chat on PC was already a mistake. Toxic as hell. Voice communication would make that so much worse, and it would be on BHVR to police that, something which I doubt they want to deal with. Not to mention, the game is on Nintendo Switch, and I don't think Switch games can implement voice comms, so that would be another huge problem as BHVR can't balance around something that can't even be included across all platforms, meaning nothing about the balance would have been improved but now there's another part of the game that can break with every update.
0 -
Im a solo player and i would be rich if i had a dollar for every killer that complains it was swf when we all escape... smh
every time we all escape they assume swf even if we all say we were soloing in chat, it means we are liars lol
2 -
People queueing up together in SWF doesn't necessarily mean they are on comms together. But also showing SWF groups in pregame lobby would just lead to killers dodging practically every lobby and effectively increase queue times.
2 -
Depends on how many SWF queues there are. If 90% (random number) of your lobbies are SWF then eventually you stop dodging.
🦆🦂
0 -
You'll be hard pressed to find a lobby of only solos. Since people can duo up you are going to have good odds at running into SWFs.
2 -
Simple, don't queue as a group then.
Killers don't want to go against some sweat group with comms who'll be able to tell each other every perk/addon you've got.
1 -
Not everyone playing with their friends is playing to sweat and people are free to play games with their friends regardless if they want to sweat or not. If you really can't handle that, then maybe it's you who shouldn't be playing.
6 -
So if your issue was just that he posted it in the wrong section, why not point that out to him when you had the chance instead of making a meaningless comment that now you admit had nothing to do with anything?
1 -
As silly as it may first sound, if you’re conveying information to one another that you can’t convey/access using in-game features/mechanics, as well as bypassing the mechanics of certain perks (and playing around them in ways that aren’t intended,) then technically it can be considered cheating, yes.
You’ve nothing to worry about though as comms are officially endorsed by BHVR, so you’re all good.
Hypothetically, if Valve were to decide that wall and aim hacks were no longer against the rules in Counter Strike, the vast majority of the community would still consider the use of such third party software to be cheating.
Comms are of course here to stay, however, using third party software to bypass and/or alter the intended mechanics of a game can still technically be considered as cheating, regardless of a developer’s official stance on the matter.
I know it can sound sort of silly given the official endorsement, but it’s not quite so black and white is all.
While it’s true that comms are a basic feature in many multiplayer games, this is not the case with DBD, which was not designed with, nor balanced with their use in mind.
A better PC, mouse or keyboard will only acheive so much, and none of which affect the intended mechanics of the game itself, but only its technical performance.
It’s therefore reasonable to say that the inherent advantages provided by the use of comms, which aren’t a feature of the game, requiring third party software to utilise, which is only accessible to a % of the player base, is indeed unfair.
3 -
You're still missing the part that comms are not going anywhere. I'm not talking about other games having them integrated as standard, I'm talking about Dead By Daylight having them as an inevitability. They are not going anywhere, and you cannot do anything about them, so I repeat that trying to label them as cheating will achieve absolutely nothing.
It's not just that it's wrong (which it is, comms should be treated as a default interaction by any competent developer, they do not provide extra value), it's that it's also a pointless line of thought.
0 -
then technically it can be considered cheating, yes.
Well, if anyone is really bothered by it and wants to buy me a big house with multiple internet routers so we can play in separate rooms, then I would absolutely go for it. A huge yard with a garden would be nice, but it isn't a deal-breaker.
Like I mentioned to someone else, if it makes people feel any better, just know one of us is always playing on the Switch, which is an absolute death sentence to the entire team. So, let me just say "you're welcome" to every killer to whom we've handed an easy, no-effort 4k. I kinda feel sorry for the randoms in our lobbies (we can't even warn them, console has no text chat), but it's on BHVR for not implementing Switch-PC cross-progression like they advertised.
Even communication can't make up for low fps, poor visibility, horrible controls, heavily delayed input, and a large number of missed skill checks.
2 -
If the developers consider it cheating then that's a reason not to balance the game around it, and also a reason not to add voice chat to the game directly. It's important for managing expectations.
🦆🦂
0 -
Ah yes the age-old SWF player go to comment "If you don't wanna play don't play"
Sure let's make all the killers leave and then you won't have any games at all.
Brilliant thinking.
I'm sure you'll be fine having an icon then so killers can continue to dodge.
2 -
They don't consider it cheating, and even if they did, they have to balance around it anyway because they can't do anything about it.
There are a myriad of reasons not to add voice chat to the game directly, though. It wouldn't actually fix the problem at all considering how ineffective it'd be.
2 -
ah yes people MUST stop playing with their friends cause its inconvenient for killers.
"i dont like it, so everyone must stop, now" ah yes
How about they also hide the survivors items in the lobby so the killer doesn't change addons/perks if needed? lol it's basically the same, avoiding giving info to the other party
3 -
You are literally telling people to not play with their friends, because it bothers you. It's not different than me telling you to not play, because people can have friends.
5 -
They don't seem to be balancing around it though. Semi-recent example: Small Game totem counter. Voice chat gives you that effect for free. It should have been added to the UI. Solo Survivors are forced to spend a perk slot to get the effect.
🦆🦂
1 -
SWF isn't cheating, nor is it a huge balance issue. If a killer can't compete against SWF, they weren't a good killer to begin with. Obviously a killer like Trapper might do worse, but it's not a huge balance issue with B tier killers and above. It's pretty much a non-factor against S and A tier killers if the killer player is any good.
4 -
I’ve already said that comms aren’t going anywhere in this very thread. In fact it was in my previous post, albeit to someone else’s comment.
I’m not “trying to label them as cheating,” I’m simply making a rational argument for why their utilisation can be considered as cheating.
If you believe it to be a pointless line of thought, you’re welcome to disregard it, and/or this thread entirely.
0 -
Yeah swf is stupid might as well give them a radar with a constant ping of the killer. If swf really love playing together, they should play in customs. Playing against or as a swf make this game a sandbox prophunt more than a horror game. If deathslinger and wraith is unfun and boring then swf is just the same and should be looked at
1 -
What they're currently doing is generally irrelevant when it comes to conversations about what they should be doing, which is balancing around SWF to give solo survivors good and reliable ways of getting the same information, or at least most of the same information.
2 -
Well, what are you trying to achieve with that argument, then?
If I've misunderstood and you're not actually making any kind of point about voice comms beyond them being cheating on a technicality, without any conclusions to be drawn from that, I apologise- you're still wrong but it's not something worth getting into a debate about.
1 -
I have exactly one friend who is playing DBD. And I know this person for 20 years. So we dont play together just to sweat or anything.
And according to you, we should play in KYF? So a cool 1v1? Yeah, sounds fun, thanks for that great idea!
@Topic:
Once again someone who is not good at the game blaming basically everything but themselves. THe good old scapegoat SWF...
Comms are highly overrated. Sure, you can pass on some information, but most SWFs are casuals and the information passed on are not that valuable.
The main strength of playing in an SWF is that you can filter out potatoes. You dont have to worry about people being useless for several reasons or being farmed off the Hook without BT if you know who is on your team. But thats about it.
4 -
The fact that no one wants to play against them should give the devs a clue that there's a problem
0 -
Hypothetically, if Valve were to decide that wall and aim hacks were no longer against the rules in Counter Strike, the vast majority of the community would still consider the use of such third party software to be cheating.
Comms are of course here to stay, however, using third party software to bypass and/or alter the intended mechanics of a game can still technically be considered as cheating, regardless of a developer’s official stance on the matter.
No, not really. Whilst the community may believe it to be, and they may condemn it (similar to what happened with Stretched Res back in the day- ie literally 3 years ago), it is excludively up to those who enforce the rules of the game to decide what is, and is not, a violation of the rules.
Many in the community consider genrushing, tunneling, proxy camping, tbagging, etc. to all be incredibly scummy. The developers believe them to be fine, and therefore they are not punishable (whereas something like slur-usage is, as they decide what does and does not violate their rules).
There is no technically about it- what the community decides on is irrelevant, as it is up to customer support staff to decide what is and is not cheating. And as has been said many times, by both BHVR staff, moderators, and forum members, using voice communication in-game is not cheating.
3 -
Here's an example of how strong and game changing swf communication is on the average survivor team:
Most of the times when people play with friends they chat about generic stuff and the information they share about the game itself is this kind of level:
"Killer's on me" "Where?" "Here" "?????? Here where" "By the jungle gym"
Fyi the overall amount of hours in that party is around 15k (I have 3k myself, and am the one replying "no")
0 -
What are you trying to achieve with your disagreement in this supposedly pointless discussion?
I’m simply making an argument for why the utilisation of third party software for in-game advantages in DBD can be considered as cheating.
Why? Mostly because that’s what I feel like doing. Not really much else to it. I’ve presented the argument clearly enough, so you can always read my previous posts for further clarification if you have not already done so.
Telling someone they’re wrong isn’t a very good counter argument, but you’re welcome to provide a better one if the discussion is no longer so pointless to you, though I agree that getting into a back ‘n forth isn’t going to change anything, opinions included.
Lol perhaps you should try starting a petition, and one for another PC while you’re at it 😂
1 -
It will be the year 2030 and this topic still will never fails to amuse me.
It's not cheating, the game isn't what it was when it came out. There are many information perks killers have access to.
Get over it.
4 -
I already did give my counter argument- comms aren't an optional consideration, they're as expected from a balance perspective as a keyboard and a monitor. They aren't something you can stop and any player who wants to play with their friends is going to at least try to use them, so once you step out of the realm of dictionary definitions and into the shoes of someone who actually has to make decisions about your video game, they are a default expectation.
They're not "extra" value any more than any mechanic in the game itself, they're the default and solo players are below that threshold. That's the only logical way to view them if your intent is to balance the game.
0 -
Not my problem buddy. OP is is allowed to argue his case if he wants, I'm sorry if that upsets you.
1 -
I have no doubt you absolutely don't care, don't worry.
2 -
You'd have to played 100,000 survivor games with killers saying this to you after each one, just to have $100,000. Which, on an annual basis is a nice upper-middle class income.
This guy. I'd hardly call that rich.
0 -
I was being sarcastic about your suggestion that SWF should just not queue together lol
0 -
It’s not cheating, but it’s absolutely an unfair advantage and you’re not being honest if you say otherwise. I play both killer and survivor and I fully admit that as survivor when I play with friends on comms it provides a huge advantage. This is why I don’t care if killers play as scummy as possible to win, because a lot of times they have to. Also, to the people who claim that some SWF don’t use comms, just stop it. That’s probably like less than 1% of SWF teams because it’s the dumbest thing ever to not talk with your friends while you’re playing an online game with them.
Solo needs to be buffed to get more on par with SWF, and killers need to be buffed accordingly. This seems like the only way to try to get the game somewhat balanced.
2 -
Nice to meet a level headed person around here!
0 -
holy #########, did the earth get struck by a meteor and only you, me, and your friend are the last survivors? I mean I know dbd is dying but not that fast lol. Does it really matter if it’s a 2 man or 4 man swf? You never heard the phrase “2 minds are better than 1”?
I can say the same too, most killers play casually and don’t even care if they lose. Survivor mains literally cry and blames everything but themselves.
I also love how people like you always try to downplay and underrated the survivors then do the exact opposite for killers. You probably under the delusion that all killers can flawlessly 4K
Post edited by Tryharder on2 -
I hear you, but there’s more nuance to it than that. If one day BHVR decide that playing with headphones is cheating, how many people do you think would agree? Would you?
Now you may say, it doesn’t matter what anybody thinks, rules are rules, but it’s not really so simple.
What makes BHVR consider the use of headphones to be cheating? There must be a basis. Or perhaps it’s just a new rule with no rhyme or reason. Regardless, you must agree that using headphones is now cheating, right?
Comms are indeed fully endorsed by BHVR, which is in part why I didn’t argue that using them is cheating. I have however said that using comms is technically cheating, or that it can be legitimately considered as cheating. This is where more of that nuance comes in:
The reality is that comms are not a feature within the game. They require third party software, which can provide tremendous advantages that cannot be replicated with in-game mechanics, ergo the game was not designed with these advantages in mind, nor is it balanced around them. It’s therefore reasonable to consider the use of such software as cheating:
The definition of cheating in the Oxford English Dictionary:
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage
Are comms an unfair advantage? I’d say utilising third party software to attain a capability that is not inherent to the game, and that said game was not explicitly designed around (nor is it actively balanced around to this day) in order to gain an advantage, is indeed unfair.
Back to my Counter Strike point, everyone knows that wall and aim hacks are cheats. Is this solely because they’re not endorsed by Valve? Of course not. We know that Counter Strike was not designed around wall and aim hacks, nor is it balanced around them; they break the game.
It stands to reason that if one day Valve decides to allow such third party software, there’d still be a legitimate basis for why the utilisation of said software could constitute as cheating, regardless of the amendment to the rules.
If DBD was designed or balanced around comms they’d be an in-game feature. What game is designed and balanced from inception around a feature it does not possess?
There would also be something in place to substitute comms for when people can’t/choose not to use them, for balance purposes; it’s very difficult to manage what are essentially two different games within the same game at the same time.
In fact BHVR only recently acknowledged that they need to add a feature such as this and then buff killers accordingly, in order bridge the gap between solo and SWF, thus allowing them to balance the game adequately. Almost six years in.
This not only tells us that comms weren’t a balance consideration of any significance in the past, but also that the increase in popularity has affected game balance negatively, providing an unfair advantage to some players and splitting the player base. Two different games within the same game, and not everybody has access to one of them.
This new feature on the horizon? Well it’s not built-in comms; BHVR are strongly opposed to the idea.
None of this particularly sounds like comms are, as you put it, “the default.”
More so, to claim that they “don’t provide extra value any more than any mechanic in the game itself” when they’re not even a mechanic within the game, provide advantages which cannot be replicated in-game, and have affected balance negatively, is just false.
3 -
Comms is a huge advantage to any swf. They can instantly undo several stealth perks or playstyles in seconds. Its why blindness and obliviousness are so terrible.
Its also why solo survivors have such a hard time. They have significantly less info than a 4-3 and even 2 man group.
And yea while it may vary from team to team. Its still a huge advantage , especially against stealth killers.
3 -
I agree that comms are overrated too. Getting rid of the bad teammates is the crown jewel of a swf
0 -
The game should be balanced around good players. But instead the standard what if a killer has to play against mediocre survivors
0 -
Sorry if I barge in here half way through reading the discussion (going to read the rest now and hope that no one pointed this out to you already) but you are also missing something here, "mate". (Sorry but i always think bringing phrases like "bro", "mate" or "dude" come across as condescending/rude in my eyes.)
Anyone has the POSSIBILITY to buy a "nicer PC or better headphones" (given the financial means). But while that is correct for survivor in Form of that anyone CAN make friends or find others to swf with, killer can't EVER gain the same advantage. That's the kicker.
DBD is the ONLY long-term successful asymmetrical pvp game but at the same time to my knowledge also the ONLY one without built-in comms and therefore not balanced for it.
Games like lol balance around premade groups by taking it into account for matchmaking and both sides have the same POSSIBLITY to gain advantage from comms AND the game has built in group voice chat PLUS a ping system for everyone else.
DBD has non of the above but the devs have given up and declared it a no problem, just like they did with camping and tunneling until the end of last year when they finally buckled unde the pressure of the majority and started "to look into it".
1
