This is what happens when you cater to survivors too much
Trying to swf with my friends and it takes over 10 minutes to find a killer,very nice.
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Playing Killer in Dead by Daylight is truly a difference experience than many other online team games.
You are solely responsible for each and every decision you make as Killer. This isn't League of Legends where you can say "My team sucked" or "Jungle never ganked". If you lost, it was because YOU (the Killer) played poorly.
Any enjoyment also has to be created by the Killer. There is no clear win condition for Killer. It is not concrete for survivor, but much more clear.
I say all of this because it's truly Killer's enjoyment of the game that is waning. Taking balance out of the equation, There are too many tedious things stacked against them to create their own enjoyment anymore.
Notice an uptick in face-camping? Directly a result of this.
Essay aside, I agree with you. I wouldn't use the word "cater", but all the enjoyable additions (lately) are Survivor based.
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Just love it that they just dropped another Dev-Notes full of Killer-Buffs and STILL people say that the Devs cater to Survivors.
Yikes³
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They have made the game truly miserable for killers. So long wait times..... suck it up.
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So true the devs are making it impossible for survivors to play catering to only killers constantly with there toxic builds that they need to carry them. There's gonna be less survivors playing and more killers playing . The more they complain the more they will aleays get and suvivors get nothing.
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The buffs are nice and appreciated but if they don't push the 2 killers into viable status then it changes nothing while coh is still a thing. It's a bone they threw at a hungry dog to keep him from starving but not to prosper. Just enough to keep PETA off bhvr's ass.
Post edited by EvilJoshy on52 -
It just makes me sad if that's how they actually treat the killer playerbase.
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"Catering to survivors" implies BHVR knows what the hell they're doing in general.
They're not biased, they're just confused.
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It is. We are 1 out of 5. From a business stand point, no sane business would try to please the minority of their customers. They would ideally want to please the most they can.
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But it starts to hurt the plyaerbase they cater for which is survivors now.
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Hopefully, the queue becomes even longer to dissuade people from playing SWF.
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*Buffs to killers woefully underperforming.
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It's not purely if you did bad though is it. You have swf telling each other where you are going. Some games I catch people in a matter of seconds but by the time I have 3 hooks 3 gens are gone. You can't be everywhere at once.
Just injuring and guarding gens would work more often if they didn't have COH freeing up perk slots for blasting gens.
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Remember when Hex+Undying was the only killer perk combo you saw in games? Remember when you could pop a gen with those perks?
BHVR said hey everyone is using that combo and it overperforms - let's nerf it. DH should have been buried into the ground a long time ago for the same logic.
After 5 years we got an admission that SWF gives you a 15% increased chance to escape. This goes against the rhetoric the devs gave us in year 1 : "SWF offers no advantage."
These two elements are probably the most broken and upsetting aspects of DBD right now (aside from EAC making it easy for h's to C).
I will give the devs credit because they saw Haddonfield was an abusive map and completely disabled it during the rework. I will remove any credit given if the map is not approximately 9000m². Why that size? Because most maps beyond that size make the game nearly impossible to play with any killer besides Nurse/Blight.
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Then your business fails because you made a business where you cannot serve those 4 people if that 1 person doesn't show up. This line of thinking falls flat because the game flat out cannot be played if that 1 stops playing. You cannot play the game without a killer, hence 10+ minute waits.
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"We" know that but I dont think bhvr knows that.
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You were never able to use PGTW AND Ruin/Undying together... Being able to kick Gens while Ruin was active was only possible with old Ruin which got changed quite some time before Undying was released.
And well, apparently they might not think that DH is overperforming. But they said they are looking at it, so I expect a Nerf and the realization of Killers that Sprint Burst is the stronger and more annoying Perk.
Let alone that being used often was only ONE reason why Ruin was changed (it was not even a Nerf...). If we go for usage, we would have seen a BBQ-Nerf ages ago.
And nope, I dont think it is "nearly impossible" to win with any Killer besides Nurse/Blight. You can win against the majority of Survivor Teams with any Killer. Even the weakest ones.
But keep pretending that Killer is soooo Hard and that you need a high degree in Onlinegaming to play Killer.
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Just a small correction: sometimes you play killer perfectly and still get rolled. Sometimes we just got to laugh it off and move on instead of dwelling on it too much.
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It all boils down to Mr. Krabs favorite thing. Money! 💰 like was stated above. You cater to your majority in any business. Survivors outnumber killers 4 to 1.
Survivors play with their friends. They bring more into the game. In turn those friends buy more cosmetics and packs etc..
You need to make the game feel easier for them. If they feel more in power they will stay. If they lose all the time they will leave. It's sad. BHVR needs to balance the game, but how far is to far?
Bottom line, survivor needs to be the power role but not seem like it is. We can see now that with SWF really is the power role.
Killers are given nothing to compensate for SWF. It's unfair. But hey, it makes them more money 💰 🤑
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The buffs are appreciated however they don’t change many of the issues which make killer a chore to play for many people.
The majority of the roster is under tuned and outdated and although it’s improving slowly, many still have terrible addons.
Low and mid tier killers get nerfed occasionally.
Too many maps are survivor sided with overturned combinations of tiles and too many pallets.
Unlucky survivor spawns can put you on the back foot from the get go.
Hex totems frequently spawn either next to gens or out in the open rendering most of them weak and ineffective.
Survivors have access to too many second chance perks which either reward them for playing poorly, undo good plays that the killer makes or bad plays that the survivor makes.
CoH is overturned and makes already outdated and under tuned m1 killers even weaker whilst breaking the flow of the game in general by proving consistent free heals throughout the match.
So on so forth. As I said buffs and rewords are great, but it’s perfectly reasonable for killer mains to complain about a plethora of issues.
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dude, we JUST got the hemorrhaged rework announced. If you run sloppy survivors can not abuse resilience and if you scare someone healing away. they lose progress while relocating. This is a VERY killer sided midchapter. And even if you don't like legion or ghostface the hemorrhaged rework is a huge improvement.
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Perks are there for a reason... just remember the base mechanics of this game.... Geez
Base Regression is 1/4th of Progression
Maps are (Bad Word) at this point
Sure Hooks do last longer... But a Toolbox and 2.5 Seconds of time can destroy them... Sure they do come back but only after 30 Seconds to a minute
Struggling on the Killer's shoulder is lame... thank god they changed that
Looping and/ or hiding is good enough for one side (also Killer dependent)
If I were to do an experiment on all this... First it will take a while... Second it might just show that Perks are meant to be a thing in this game
Perks just don't "carry" matches on their own... It comes down to the person using them to matter one way or the other
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In my entire time of playing DBD I've never had a survivor heal themselves whilst in a chase, is this a low tier MMR thing?
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Might be that the hemorrhaged rework benefits the killers but it still doesnt adress a lot of issues that ppl are having with this game. Tunneling meta is still present both for killers and survs, no looking at gen speeds and nothing about queue times, sbmm, dead hard and other issues. Its the old BHV approach: Give ppl something unrelated and try to sell it as groundbreaking and cool. And then in their minds everyone goes "OMG Hemorrhaged rework, exactly what I was waiting for; THKS BHV; Im coming back to play killer and to buy every available skin in the shop now cause I love this game now". At least thats how I imagine it plays out in their minds
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dude, I'm referring to you get close so they stop and relocate because they don't want you to follow their grunts of pain.
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I think it's just called "evening".
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What? we wanted COH and Dead Hard nerfs but we didn't get any...
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killers found hemorrhage useless. Also, what did survivors get at all in this? There were 2 killer buffs and a hemorrhage rework. Tunnel/ping pong meta could only be solved by eliminating the 3 stage and reworking sacrifices entirely and a dead hard rework is possibly in the works. You gotta be realistic here. I never said this was a miracle. I said this patch gives more to killers than survivors.
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If you need any proof of how out-of-touch BHVR is in regards to killer's complaints just look at the map releases. Killers have been complaining about excessive map sizes for ages, and yet BHVR's newest map is like one of the largest, not to mention the one with the most verticality which screws up 90% of the killer roster.
They added survivor sided hit validation to DH, effectively buffing it, even though DH was already the most used exhaustion perk by a fair mile.
The freaking Ring chapter fell completely flat on its face because they deliberately released an m1 killer with no anti-loop smack in the middle of the CoH meta which makes hit and run completely not viable.
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Because the killers needed it badly, now if they gave Bubba insta chainsaw that can go on forever, and bumping into an obstacle didn't get him frenzied, then yeah, I would absolutely agree that the devs are killer sided
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Because, in recent times, when survivors get buffs we see things Like COH and Boil Over that break the game and maps like the game getting unreasonable tons of pallets, Killers got 5% on the weakest killer in the game and 15 seconds on another contender. The killers will still be weak after, just not as weak. Meanwhile DH and CoH are running around.
Killers have 1 piece of sandwich bread and survivors have a fully stocked fridge, they give killers a peanut and give survivors a whole damn turkey. But sure the peanut makes everything ok.
Basically, just because they gave killers something doesn't mean nothing else matters.
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You just going to ignore them nerfing deathslinger, wraith, spirit, Freddy, all because survivor mains like you spew crap like boring, unfun, unfair. Heck even clown got nerf because it’s not fun for the survivor lol
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Catered? There's been nothing but survivor nerfs for as long as I can remember.
Killers on the other hand: Nothing but buffs. More buffs coming.
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wow... 🙄 I guess you would call a 0.002 second decrease to exhaustion timer a meaningful buff to yeah?
This was a QOL change more than a buff and didn't really change anything about the killers. It was super safe and should not have taken so long. I guess we will need to see what the rest of the addons do, but i am not holding my breath.
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Thats a very delusional yet unsurprising thing to see coming from you. You’ve always been a survivor extremist.
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Those are Buffs. Not QoL-Changes.
Legion and Ghostface will be stronger, so those are Buffs. A QoL-Change would not really change the strength of a certain KIller/Add On.
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And you are just going to ignore 5 years of Survivor-Nerfs? And still think the Devs are catering to Survivors?
Survivors got nerfed A LOT over the years (and rightfully). But if the Devs would cater to them, they would not nerf certain things. In fact, CoH is the only newly introduced Survivor-Perk which was worth running after the release of David. Which was also years ago.
(Sure, they buffed things like Boil Over, but this did not make the Perk strong, just unhealthy...)
And yeah, I think Nerfs to all those Killers were justified. Deathslinger had insane zoning and at certain distances no real counterplay, because it is physically impossible to dodge the Shots in such a short amount of time. Wraith basically had 3 Add On-Slots due to build-in Windstorm, so nerfing the purple All-Seeing was justified (and it did not even change that much...). I disagree on the Speed-Nerf after uncloaking tho, however, it is not like Wraith is unplayable since then.
Spirit had no counterplay. Like, 0. She now got counterplay and still is an S-Tier Killer. It is just not possible to win chases instantly by using her power, which scared a lot of Killer players away from her.
Freddy was so braindead easy that my cat would be able to 4K with him on a reliable basis. His rework only make him an unfun experience, because he was really boring for both sides after the Rework, but just braindead to play. After removing the braindead Parts, the boring parts stayed. He is not weak by any means, but his kit is just flawed.
And Clown... Well, Pinky Finger deserved the Nerf because it was super-easy to get direct Bottle Hits after Clown did not slow down after throwing anymore. However, it did not change much, because the Add On is still a problem and Clown clearly deserved some more Love, because his most recent Buff did not really lift him up. But hey, we get Blight-Buffs basically every Midchapter (by those Devs who cater to Survivors!).
But I know, the Forum Killer Mains will now jump at me. Because how dare I say that Killers dont have it that bad.
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I mean killer is hard by design. The devs have said this. They are 1 against 4 even with all their power. And some killers have less of that power then others. Namely the m1 killers. Onryo and Myers perks like COH and Dead hard hurt especially more. I don't know if sprint burst is more effective then dead hard vs onryo since she can teleport. And myers can sometimes hit you before you even know to start running. But i do agree on the sentiment we need to stop with the "devs are this devs are that". Just sayin killer isn't really for the faint of heart. Ive been playing killer since early 2017. I still get stressed and thats okay that's just how it is being 1 person trying to keep up with 4. I don't think they need a gaming degree. Just a lot better gameplay then the survivors they are facing as survivors have easier core mechanics. This is my opinion of course as a 50/50 player.
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You're right! But getting 4 hooks before the gates are powered, would be nice.
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Dont pay attention to people like that,they only see their side and they obviously dont care how miserable is the other.
Biased opinions dont matter.
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Its not about 4ks,its about playing killer not being fun in the current state,just because I had a 4k doesn't mean I had fun.
That's the problem.
Its not fun being under so much pressure because by the time you get 1 down 2 gens pop,yeah,very fun.
I agree,it really sucks they nerfed Circle of Healing,that perk was obviously fine and now its soooooo weak.
/s
Are you Sluzzy 2.0? Cuz we dont need one.
Do you even play killer?Because you talk like a survivor main that never plays killer.
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I would say that Killer is hardER by design, not that it is hard. And it should be expected that it is harder, because it is the 1 in the 1v4. And even this is not 100% the case, because sometimes Killer can be easier than Survivor, depending on the Survivors they go against. But in general, yes, it is harder. But not hard overall.
And IMO this is correct this way. Because otherwise the side which has already more variety and gains more BPs would also be the side which is easier to play. So at least for Solos there would be 0 incentive to play Survivor anymore at this point (unless they enjoy it, of course).
Sprint Burst being stronger because it makes every area safe. You can be in the biggest Deadzone, if you have Sprint Burst ready, you will be safe. This is not the case with DH.
And being more annoying... This is obviously subjective, but I expect DH in every chase, so I dont really find it annoying if someone uses it. I think it is more annoying if a Survivor can sit on a Gen until the very last second and still can get away with that.
I wish that players on both sides would stop being butthurt. Most of the time it is their own fault of they lose (granted, as Survivor you at least have the possibility that someone else can mess it up for you). But all the time players find any excuse why they died - whether it is DH, SWF, the Map, camping, certain Killers...
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"Are you Sluzzy 2.0? Cuz we dont need one.
Do you even play killer?Because you talk like a survivor main that never plays killer."
Funny, you say "Dont pay attention" when it comes to me, but do it yourself...
Yes, I play Killer. Every Killer except for Hag or Freddy, because I dont find them fun. And I have every Killer maxed out (P3-50 all Perks) aside from Sadako.
And I have probably more hours on Killer alone than most Forum users overall in DBD. So "You are a Survivor Main that never plays Killer" does not really work...
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Sluzzy is a better killer than both of us.
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A meaningful buff to ghostface would be that hitting a survivor does not deplete their exposed meter. What he got was a qol update that doesn't change his viability.
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4 hooks? I played one killer game yesterday for bonus exp. I am not playing DbD long time anymore.
Anyway i was Legion at The Game. I had to break all stupid God Pallets. I had 2 hooks before gates are powered. I get 3 kills because i decided camp last guy. And they wanted save for 4 men escape. They failed because i was lucky, my hook was at first floor. So they were far from gates.
So if devs looks this game, they will say: Legion is alright, she took 3 kills. But in reality, they destroyed me.
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I fail to see the logic in your statement.
You say, that killer can be easier than survivor, depending on the survivors they go against. But the same could be said about survivor being easier depending on what killer they go against. Yes, this game is a 4vs1. Thus the 1 player who plays killer, should be at least as strong as the 4 survivors. Since the 4 players play as a team, their role should actually be harder. Compare it to a team project vs something that can be done by a single person. The team project is usually more complicated and thus requires more people assigned to it.
I´m not sure about which side you are talking, when you speak about having more variety + earning more bloodpoints while also being the easier role. I´d have to assume you mean survivors, but then the next part makes no sense. Since that would mean, that killers have long queues, because no one wants to play survivor, since its to rewarding?
If SB were stronger than DH, then SB would be meta and not DH. So don´t pretend like DH is a weaker SB.
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Yeah the test is weird. It seems like they turned ranks/sbmmr/hours played/everything off. Matching everyone with everything. Resulting in very inconsistent matches.
I usually use Bond and watching my teammates crouch behind a rock or in the corner of the map doesn´t really inspire faith in a good match.
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You can’t say “killer buffs” when there’s different killers in the game?? It’s not “killer buffs” it’s legion and ghost face buffs, doesn’t affect anyone who doesn’t play these killers
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I mean noone is denying that there is or was some broken stuff on the killer side as well. But its wrong to say that survivors only got nerfs. Yeah they got a lot of nerfs but there was also a lot of OP stuff introduced when it first came out. Like when CoH first came out it was stupidly broken and destroyed a lot of killer playstyles. So ofc it was nerfed. But if u introduce something like boons and then have to nerf it cause it gets completely out of hand u cant really sell it as "only survivor nerfs". And there wasnt really one ground breaking nerf on the survivor side or a buff on the killer side in recent times if i can remember correctly. Everything they introduced and ppl complained about they immidiately changed or nerfed again.
But this whole discussion with this side is stronger or this side got nerfed more is pointless anyways. What they do now is the typical BHV approach. They know that they need to do something cause queue times for survivors explode since a lot of killers left in recent times. So now they just buff the weakest killers and a really useless status effect like hemorhagge that noone really woked with anyways and will now sell it as absolutely ground breaking. Now they probably are hoping that some of the killers that went "nope" see this and go "hmm.. BHV tries to make it better for killers maybe give it another go" and come back which fixes the queue times without making survs too upset cause who cares if legion got buffed tbh.
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