Shape in his current state is a joke
he needs a rework, or to be removed
Comments
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What do you think the issue is, what suggestions do you have for improvement?
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They're not going to remove one of the most popular licensed killers in the game. That's insanity. Thousands of players have paid money for him. Not to mention regularly play him. He's got one of the best pick rates in the game.
My personal suggestions are;
- Let him start with his tier 1 at 99%. That way he can just tap himself into tier 2 or stay oblivious in tier 1 if he wants.
- Have stalk regenerate on survivors. There should not be a cap on his power. That's a very outdated mechanic. Bubba and Billy are not limited on how many times they can chainsaw survivors. There's no cap on how much blood Oni can get off survivors. Michael should be extended the same courtesy as other insta down killers.
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I really do think people exaggerate how weak Myers is, but I do think he could do with a few tweaks to help modernise him a little. He mostly suffers from being kinda slow and clunky, which worked on his release but hasn't kept up with the faster pace of the game today.
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hmm that's interesting. I remember when he was first released that he was able to stalk multiple survivors at once before that was changed to single survivors. It was a different game back then though.
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I agree. He's not even in the bottom three killers in my opinion. But he does needs some quality of life changes to put him in a better spot.
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For sure. Regarding your suggestions, I do think making Tier 1 a little more viable in general is a good idea- I'd love to see him have a normal lunge, so he's still slow but can choose to do work in Tier 1 if that's the best option in the situation he's in.
Personally, I'd like to see Killer Instinct on any survivor over 50% stalk progress when you pop Tier 3, and the ability to just walk through walls and dropped pallets in Tier 3 too. Those are my most wanted changes.
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shape is HEAVILY reliant on his add-ons to work, and his mechanic is not good in the current meta
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Stalking limitation seems outdated. Has the team considered various methods of regression?
Something like;
25% stalked regression on a hooked survivor while outside X meters.
Survivors slowly regress while the killer is actively chasing another survivor.
A regression of X% from the current stalked amount when downing a survivor in tier 3
A set cap for maximum Stalking on 2 survivors but can be redistributed continously among all living.
Stalking multiple survivors at the same time caps out at a reduced rate allowing for additional tier 3 chances
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1. I'd make T1 110% instead of 105%. As it stands, being in T1 is a massive hindrance rather than a resource.
2. Make T3 proc the press of a button, similar to Oni. People 99 for the same effect, only with a slight margin of error (don't pretend none of you haven't accidentally popped a T3)
3. He gets a slight boost to vaulting in T2 and a bigger one in T3. I'd make that boost apply to breaking pallets as well.
Beyond that, I think he's mostly fine. Tombstone Piece could definitely use a nerf imho...
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I agree he needs a buff or some tweaking. He's not horrible but he was made a long time ago and currently is not up to par with other killers or the game meta with all the new perks. (A new cosmetic would be nice too!) I made a big post about Myers buff ideas a few days ago, you can probably find it on the second or third page of this forum section, but to repeat two or three of the ones from that list that I particularly liked.
One being, once a survivor is completely stalked dry, you gain the ability to see them through walls when stalking within a short-range (like 8 meters or something, also bear in mind you can't stalk in tier 3 so it'd be a buff to tier 2). It would make it slightly harder for them to escape and make looping over tall loops a bit easier for the Shape. I also feel it suits his characterization with him being a stalker that slowly works his way closer to his targets while watching them, before striking.
The second being, when in tier 3, Myers can walk through breakable walls with a slowdown if he walks into them holding the secondary power button
I'm also a fan of the tier 3 being a button press like oni. It's not on my original list but it'd be helpful, especially for new players who don't know to 99 him. I don't think it'd fix his problems, but it would be a nice quality of life change!
It'd also be super cool if the Haddonfield map played the Halloween theme, or a DBD rendition of it when the exit gates are opened if you're going against or playing as the Shape. Like how Midwich plays the Silent Hill air raid siren. If you're interested in the full list of ideas I presented here's the link to the post (If that's okay to put! I'm not sure if that's against the rules or not but if so I'm sure a mod will remove it and inform me.) https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/316581/a-myers-simps-suggestions-for-him#latest
Otherwise, I'm glad to see so many other posts about the Shape! I hope the devs give him the love he deserves as he's one of my favorite killers in the game and one of my favorite slasher characters in general.
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@MandyTalk Scott jund made some nice suggestions with his 7.0.0 video.
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His buffs will never be strong enough to compensate for tombstone piece nerf, when it happens.
And he will be too weak against any decent group like every other m1 killer still.
The reason I still play killer is I can let some steam with his tp after a series of rough and stressful games with other killers I play. When tp nerf hits, I am just playing surv.
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And here I am thinking he could stalk multiple survivors. 😳
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agree with your post.
its funny that people can beat myers with permanent evil 3 for 15 minutes straight. poor myer
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I think there could be a few improvements that can be made.
- The Shape moves at 4.4m/s in Tier 1, rather than 4.2m/s.
- The Shape has a regular attack lunge in Tier 1, rather than a short lunge.
- After stalking Survivors and filling the power gauge, The Shape now can completely fill the power gauge and is given the prompt to either increase Evil Within tier, or to lower it (Hold the Primary Power button to increase the tier/Hold the Secondary Power button to lower a tier).
- Add-on pass (condense add-ons that do the same or similar effects into a single add-on, re-balance the Kill add-ons, create new add-ons that apply new effects).
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The ability to lower or raise it seems like a pretty neat idea actually, not sure if it fits the character or not since he 'builds evil to gain power' but it would certainly give some form of alternative gameplay. Though I'd change it so if he decides to go back to tier 1 he can instantly go back to tier 2 whenever he pleases, with half his evil within tier 2 charge meter still there, otherwise it'd not ever be worth lowering to tier 1 again
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That Myers was playing really really nice. Even Tru3 says so. If he'd been more ruthless he'd have killed most if not all of them.
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i mean even if you are playing nice, 15 minutes of unlimited instant down is long time.. to kill survivors. I think many killers can win in like half the time even when playing nice. Just myer things.
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The reason the match lasted 15 minutes is because he was playing nice. If he played aggressively the game would have been over in half the time. Nothing to do with Myers things. Its his play style choice. Even at the end he had someone on hook and left the hook entirely and gave them a free save.
This was someone who was not playing to win.
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- Getting an M1 in Tier I brings Myers up to 99% Tier I (or at least fills his Tier I stalk meter by some amount, as getting a hit in Tier I can be difficult, and the killer should be rewarded for that).
- The amount of stalk on each survivor who has been stalked regenerates slowly over time.
- Decrease (but don't eliminate) the stalk penalty from stalking survivors from far away.
- Give him an add-on pass. Myers has some good add-ons, but many add-ons fall in three categories: extremely useless, frustratingly overwhelming, or add-ons that have wonky scaling. In the useless category: all the "Increases movement speed while stalking" add-ons, and Glass Fragment. In the overwhelming category: Tombstone Piece (and Fragrant Tuft of Hair for newer players only). In the wonky scaling category: Blond Hair, Hair Brush, Hair Bow, and Lock of Hair. Blond Hair, Hair Brush, and Lock of Hair all require too much extra stalk on first Tier III for the benefit they provide. Hair Bow is right in the sweet spot. Imo, it should be: 0% extra stalk for Blond Hair, 25% extra stalk for Hair Brush, and 50%-75% extra stalk for Lock of Hair.
Part of the problem is, at least at higher MMR, it takes Myers too long to get into the thick of the action fast enough, and sometimes by the time you have your first Tier III the game is over. By allowing him to start to be a threat to survivors modestly earlier, he can pressure survivors off gens earlier (as opposed to needing to stalk to do anything useful) and he can start making survivors start having to use their resources more quickly, giving him an advantage in the late game when he is stronger.
Don't get me wrong, Myers is by no means the weakest killer or anything. He's just a bit antiquated for the DbD of 2022, and could use some modernizing.
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I dont think Myers is weak, I think most people play it wrong, he has the ability to bypass the best looper in the team with 99% EW3 and M&A, you can watch videos of great Survivor streamers being downed in seconds because a 8m TR Myers with 99% EW3 surprised them before they could reach a loop. I never felt the necessity of stalk replenishing, you can get EW3 6 times, I rarely need that many tier3 in a match as usually you get at least 1 down with each, I get on average 1,5 downs per EW3 use or even more.
I think his problem comes from map design, huge maps and low wall maps hurt him a lot and the game ditching stealth with brighter maps and less fog makes it easier to spot him because he is the size of a truck.
I do believe he should get the "peek" action Ghostface has as stalking unnoticed with him is hard.
Nah you only drain the one closest to you.
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I think he just needs a couple smaller tweaks. I also don’t think he’s the worst killer in the game either, even if he’s not super high up.
- Tier 1 movement speed is 4.3m/s. Lunge penalty reduced or removed.
- Getting from tier 1 to 2 only requires half the amount of stalk it did before.
- Going from tier 2 to tier 3 can be triggered through active ability button after stalking enough, rather than needing to 99 stalk.
- Nerf tombstone piece.
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Just run a stalking add-on, another strong add-on, and Bamboozle, and hope for the best.
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I think it might be more psychologically interesting if instead of speeding Myers up in T3, all survivors became increasingly hindered, and if they remained stationary for too long (3 seconds?), it triggers killer instinct on them, so that they just can't camp it out.
It gives a sense of oppressive exhaustion and futility to the chase when Myers is at his pinnacle, and make looping and other evasion tactics less steady as they slow down.
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Excuse me? For me Myers is not a weak killer at all. That's why he will be my main very soon. :|
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I'd say that stealth killers in general should be invisible from far away like Sadako currently is. As is, there's a massive disadvantage on outdoor maps for stealth killers when you can see them from a mile away.
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If your still reading this discussion then I would suggest the following:
The core issue is his early game compared to his payoff, a direct comparison would be a killer like Oni.
Oni only has to get one hit to start building up (and he moves at 115). Once he gets his demon form, he can move at incredible speeds and make a lot of loops unsafe. At the same time though he does have weaknesses in that survivors can make it hard to get that first hit, but that is just fine.
Obviously if you guys do decide to change the shape you will have your own ideas in mind but I think doing something along lines like these is a good focus point:
Make it so that in Tier 3 he gets brutal strength or an effect like it. As well as other effects as you see fit, because again with the Tier 3 payoff compared to the weaknesses it is simply not enough in most cases (unless you bring addons to increase its duration or similar). Survivors especially good ones with strong setups can waste most of the tier 3 (and you cant dash to gens like Oni can, so abandoning a chase is much more punishing).
Make it so that Tier 1 is less punishing (something like boosting his speed to 110 would help this). I would also suggest making the stalk speed increase with further distance. This would help flavour wise but also help out his early game.
I hope you read these points or points others have made in this discussion as we only want what is best for the game, as do you guys.
Thanks
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I don't know about you personally, but I don't see Myers' power being implemented as it is today. I think identity is lacking beyond the stalk aspect, which isn't the actual power. At the end of the day, evil within is a stat boost to an M1 killer, and I think there are more interesting routes you could go with that make you feel like you're playing as or against Myers rather than a basic killer with exposed and a window vault speed boost.
but a lot of people seem to like him so I'm probably in the minority. if it were up to me, i think giving him a unique ability that morphs in strength and utility between tiers would be cool, alongside his current strengths.
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I think he needs a clown sized rework as a lot of his mechanics are outdated especially the limited power resource, my idea would be:
change his base stats to this
base Ms/ 4.6
terror radius 24 meters
his tiers are removed and instead his power works like this
Evil Incarnate
Activating Evil Incarnate allows The Shape to see his prey clearly and build up more Evil Power by stalking them:
SPECIAL ABILITY: Stalk
Press and hold the Power button to stalk all visible Survivors and gain Evil Power charges.
the survivors Evil Power charges resource limit is removed. Instead when the shape fully stalks a survivor additional stalking has its speed reduced by 50% for all fully stalked survivors except the obsession who can be stalked at full speed all match.
SPECIAL ABILITY: Evil unleashed
When the Evil Power meter is full press the Power button to activate Evil Unleashed (you don't need to 99% anymore)
you cannot stalk while Evil Unleashed is active
60 seconds duration
Evil Power charges deplete over the course of the 60 seconds duration
all survivors are exposed
increases vault speed by 15%
increases speed of breaking pallets/breakable walls and damaging generators by 15%
increases lunge duration to 0.6 seconds (increases lunge range like it dose on live)
SPECIAL ABILITY: Evil Within
Press the Alternate ability button (the vault/kick button) to consume 25% of the total Evil Power charges
cannot be activated when you have less than 25% total Evil Power charges
you can still stalk while Evil Within is active
gain the undetectable status effect for 15 seconds
can be activated while Evil Unleashed is active at the cost of reducing its duration by 15 seconds
using Evil Within while Evil Unleashed is active plays this global sound stinger (copy the link to hear the sound effect from the dbd wiki) https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/deadbydaylight_gamepedia_en/images/6/64/Shape_EvilWithin_Tierup_Warning.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20171008204223
pressing the alternate power button again while Evil Within is still active refreshes its duration and dose not play the global stinger sound effect if Evil Unleashed is active.
with all these changes Myers identity stays the same but he is more about balancing recourses and deceiving survivors like how in the movies even when he is chasing Laurie he often appears out of nowhere even towards the end of the movie.
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I don't think a 99% would be good, but I do think that his power having a cap on it is rather absurd considering how far he's fallen behind. I don't think its his main issue (His main issue is a potentially grueling early game and thus terrible match) but its another thing that bars him from being at his max performance.
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The shape is the best killer in DBD, no other killer come close.
The shape comes from a time period where the devs prioritised fun and uniqueness over strength. His base power is intense, starting off small and building up his evil within. Rewarding the killer for being smart on how he uses his limited tier 3 unlike ghostface which relies and poorly designed recognition system and a power that punishes the survivor for revealing him, because why reward survivors for playing well, we need ghostface to be strong, so lets give always the survivor's location. Due to his non existent terror radius the shape is one of the few truly horror themed killers in DBD, as most are more intense, but not really scary.
At the time when the shape was created no other killer was comparable, now ghostface functions as just a stronger version of the shape, with non of the flare the shape came with. Lets talk about addons. The addons on the shape were perfect. scratch mirror Myers, infinite tier 3, tuff of hair/ tombstone ect. Some addons simply made him stronger but these made him so unique that it was always exciting to see what you are going against. Now days due to people taking this game so seriously and becoming overly competitive all you ever see are stalk speed increasing addons and maybe infinite tier 3, but almost never anything else. Can the shape compete at high MMR? No, but who cares because he is so much fun to play and verse. I do not want the devs to make his power stronger and remove what made him interesting in the first place, just so he can become another uninteresting strong killer.
So many killers are becoming simple tweaks on existing powers, (sadoko) or either have...
strong anti loop but no map preasure (The Artist)
Strong map pressure, but no anti loop. (sadoko)
these killers are very uninspired as they focus more on how strong the power is, rather then how unique and interesting it is.
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Honestly I think removing the stalk cap would almost be enough on its own, while only being a very small boost to the tombstone and piece.
This is a fascinating idea. Complex, but awesome.
One other idea I had, just to make him closer lore-wise to the movies, is give him a limited teleport.
So he can teleport, but only to the obsession (similar to the pinhead teleport, where he ends up like 15 ft away), and when he does, he suffers a short movement speed penalty (maybe 2-5%) that way he can scare the hell out of the obsession at will, but won't get "free" hits. Would also be down for a token system so he only gets like 3 teleports per match.
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