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SWF, Solo and Killer in Balance? A radical proposal ... lets discuss.
I play DbD now for 1,5 Years and i hold up round about 900 hours which means meanwhile i know a little bit about DbD. As the header says its about balance problems not about cheaters this time ;)
SWF is as we say in germany blessing and curse at the same time. It attracts many players who wish to play in groups with their friends but at the same time it makes it nearly impossible to balance DbD in a really fair way. The most disadvantaged group are solo players like me. I already played with friends and i know it can be a lot of fun and i am also member in a dab discord group with round about 6k players and several swf options every day. But i decided still to play solo.
I am convinced of it dbd shouldnt be played with SWF. A good SWF group has 3 undeniable advantages which destroy every attempt of getting dbd balanced in advance.
1.) They play reguarly and they get trained by that. So they know their rules perfectly. The more often they play the better they will be.
2.) They equip their perks tactically and maximize their options by considering which perks a mate brings or not.
3.) They got the most powerful weapon called voice chat which gave everyone informations you should not have and its literally a kind of cheating in my opinion.
Killers and that is a fact a not happy with that. When i queue up in the evening got matched up with a 3 person SWF which happens really often i experienced more and more often that killers dodge this combo. Especially if Survs set their profile on private status. Meanwhile i allow killers to see my friends hoping to get less often dodged then. And Killers have a good reason. In the beginning i played round about 75% Surv and 25% Killer. But i experienced too that SWF is a) unfun to play with and b) many of them are toxic *******!
So here is my proposal. What would happen if DbD offers a second option/server where SWF isnt possible and that means you can be mixed with someone else only once in lets say 24 hours. And to make it more fair/balanced Survs who play on this server get some buffs in order to get balanced matches. What buffs are needed can be discussed.
Which server would be more successful with a view to the amount of players in total? SWF fans claim that nearly all of them would leave DbD if there is no SWF so they might think they will win this contest. But i dont think so.
My thesis: Killers will switch to alternative server if the buffs for survs are fair. I am sure all Solo Survs will come too. The old server will die without Killers and SWF players tryin to compensate the loss of killers will first time understand why it is unfun to play against SWF. A part will leave DbD for sure but i am pretty sure a big amount will come to alternative server and discover how much fun DbD can be without SWF. Probaly less toxic too and more enjoyable. And on top former players might come back too plus new players. In the end it could work out.
Is it possible that a independet publisher can try it out as a lets say franchise partner with a slightly new concept? I look forward to your opinions and ideas.
Comments
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To be fair Solo Q ain’t no fun either and most of time it’s a cheap way for millers to get easy games. Since the recent MMR tests I’ve stopped playing Solo Q and only play SWF now or killer.
ive played against a few swfs and to be honest it’s not been anywhere near as bad as solo q, which is probably why I don’t mind it as much, sure you can get some sweaty games but overall I rarely lose any, might be killer permitted though I use wraith hah
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But when there are more Solo Survs the queue for Killer is much longer. But in the evening Killer queue is rid. short which seems to verify my thesis. I am pretty sure if there are two servers that one without SWF will win and get in the end as many players as now.
And as you mentioned it becomes really sweaty. Even with Wraith ;)
And thx for your opinion.
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I don't know why people say this. I have fun on survivor regardless of whether I'm grouped with others. If the queue times weren't prohibitive I'd never play killer.
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As a non english mothertongue a question. Your last sentence means you play killer a lot? Its a problem of understanding. I am sorry.
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Yes, I play killer a great deal out of obligation. It feels like doing the community a service rather than for my own enjoyment.
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So you officially get the Mother Teresa award for bein so altruistic. 😀
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How to kill the game 101 ... wasnt already discussed hundreds of times.
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Trash talk? It is a serious intetntion. Or are you a SWF Fan? Then my question to you. If all Killers leave to alternative server would you then play killer against SWF?
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I dont care if I play against SWF or not. This game is about koop as survivor. Removing that part kills at least half the playerbase, thats common sense.
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Says who? So if BHVR would start this experiment you think all killers will stay with SWF? Seriously? I cant believe it. But i would like to see who is right. I am pretty sure a server without SWF will win in the long term since many SWF Fans can also arrange without SWF.
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I dont know what you read there, but i didnt say anything in that regard. Killer always go the easiest way. Thats why they always blame others and never recognize their own mistakes nor their lack of skill. This game without SWF is dead for sure.
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Better program killer bots for the SWF server.
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Thats why i proposed to buff Solo Survs to make matches with Killer more balanced. But Killers have a good reason to avoid SWF and i read many threads just in this forum here about it. So i am pretty sure DbD can exist without SWF.
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Sure an option. But i am afraid they will get bored with Killer Bots while the Solo Survs have fun with alle the Killers and vice versa.
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It doesnt make any difference. If you cant play SWF in an Koop game, most SWF players will quit. Dont know why this is so hard to understand. And to be fair, this forum ist just about a bunch of crybaby killers whining everyday and ignoring any reasons. thats exactly why devs will never really listen to the forum. you cant take those killer players serious. If anything would go their way, the game would be a stomping simulator for killers.
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So its your point of view. I clearly see an option and dont share your opinion at all. But how do you know all Killers that refuse SWF are „crybaby killers“? Or does it came from you SWF-Glasses not to realize that SWF is etremely op? These Killer players started dodging Lobbys and Surv queue is getting longer. And if more and more leave against whom will you fight with your SWF resp. when will you realize that there is a problem in balance? When you wait 20 Minutes for a match in the evening?
And you clearly did not respect the Solo Survs. They are at the end of this misery.
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Its not my point of view. Its a given situation. Additionally SWF isnt extremely OP. Its an issue if you have those 1% of the playerbase that sweat their ass of in a 4man in casual. Duo as example isnt that much better than solo. Like I play occasionally Trapper for 5 years now and still have my 3k average at quite good mmr. Trapper is still a weaker killer, but i still have my way to win consistently and not having to rely on gameflaws or bad designs. And why? cause i know what iam doing. If i played blight i probaly would lose all games, cause i dont know how to play, but i would never blame the game or survivors for my loss.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
When the devs last put out data about such things (maybe over two years ago?) they said about half of all survivors were in at least a two-man SWF. Since solo queue has gotten less and less fun as time passes I have to believe that number has only grown.
So it's very likely the vast majority of survs now are in some form of a SWF, especially with lots of killers now playing survivor due to the recent killer experience worsening as well.
Although we don't know the numbers, you're talking about most of the much larger playerbase being turned off in effect. This is what most here mean when they say it'll kill this game.
I do wish we did get updated player numbers to see for ourselves though...
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Can you proof your thesis? I bet you cant. Reality says something different and i bet with you if you gave players the choice the SWF Server wont have any killers. But without Killer the game is useless. And offending others is a) unfair and will lead b) to the opposite. And the way you argue and offend others show me that i hit the nail on the head. Of course SWF dont want to loose their privilege. But why prefer one group and neglect two groups?
I just made a proposal.
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With my model you could determine how high the potential really is and whether SWF is really important. Who says that many who use SWF now just run away, especially when they experience a massive killer shrinkage in reality on their SWF server? Not a few should think about that.
The way things are going now, SWFs are massively favored and solo players are disadvantaged accordingly. The killer lies in between, but tends towards the solo player in my experience in countless chats.
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Perhaps they want to play in a fun way that doesn't involve hanging around the hook and chasing the same two survivors until its a 3v1.
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Moin.
The way I see it, all three of your points can be addressed by bridging the gap between solo-q and swf and balance killers against that (and considering their recent survey they are thinking about ways to bridge the information gap between swf and solo-q). There is just too much of a difference between solo-q and swf - the most important being comms. If you balance against solo-q, swf are just op. If you balance against swf, solo-q is a chaotic mess and a guranteed zero fun experience (at least for the survivors - but I guess even for killers chasing down four clueless chickens gets old soon enough).
The big issue with your "make it two servers and one will die (mwuahahahaha)" comes with the issue that it is a punitive/destructive solution; "if you don't like it then leave". That's not likely to be put into practise because it is a) more expensive (more servers that need to be paid for) and b) you're actively killing part of your playerbase. Dbd devs don't want less people to play the game. They want more people. Effectively removing the play-with-your-friends-aspect will drive away those who want to play with their friends.
(Personally, I play solo-q more often than swf but not because it's so much fun/I enjoy it more but because I look at it as practise for when I get to play with my friends in swf. My friends have a lot less free time than I. In your scenario, I would stop playing dbd and all of us would find a different game to play as "swf"/co-op in genral at times and I do think quite a few players are in the same boat as I)
Post edited by JaviiMii on0 -
The problem is you have 3 groups and its nearly impossible to balance them out in a fair way. Since i also played swf i could see a very big difference between random and swf group. The gap is far too big and the killers is within this gap figuratively speaking.
A second server/platform is just to find out which way of playin will be more successful. In my proposal both will compete and one will win. I am sure that without swf will win and the reactions of swf lobby convinces me even more.
So if there is no swf you will really leave dbd no matter how many perks you unlocked nor how many costumes/styles you earned or even bought? Tbh i really doubt it. Sure some will leave for ever. But a big amount will arrange with the new situation. And it will attract to new players. Plus Killers will have more fun and we will have enough killers even at night time.
So what is so frightening of this experiment? The high probability that solo players and killers will be more successful?
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I am pretty sure withou swf and slightly buffed solo survs bot sides will have more fun than right now. Of course swf fans have to raise their objection since they benefit most from actual situation.
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That's why I said bridge the gap between swf and solo.
"So if there is no swf you will really leave dbd no matter how many perks you unlocked nor how many costumes/styles you earned or even bought?"
Yes. I for one play for fun - and while I enjoy looking at Leon's pretty behind I wouldn't mind playing some RE2 instead if it's his butt I want to see and I hzave to play by myself anyway. I rather burn 10-ish euros, buy another game and have fun with my friends rather than hang around in dbd all by myself. I know pretty much for sure cause it has happened for quite a few other games already. Heck, I even left games I had 4000+ hours in and had unlocked hundreds of euros worth of cosmetics (even though I unlocked most of them the grindy way, like with shards in dbd) simply because the people I played the game with left and playing 70% by myself turned into 100% by myself.
"So what is so frightening of this experiment?" For me? Like I said, that the whole point of getting the game in the first place was to play with friends.
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But how will you fill the gap without neglecting the Killer in the end? And i just want two models to see which is fitter.
If you will leave its ok but i dont think that many will follow you. But new players will come and many who took a time out probably will come back too. Sure SWF is fun but it means also having many advantages compared to solo players. And which game closed a mp-mode so that you left it?
And just in case if there are two servers and you stay at swf server but there are nearly no killers what will you do? Will you think about again and maybe understand how unfair swf was or will you really be stubborn and leave a very good game? And do you always play only computer games with your friends?
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Why are you trying to convince me that I wouldn't quit playing if it was solo-q exclusive?
And how do you get to "neglecting the killer" when I just said that there should be re-balancing? The issue is, as you pointed out yourself, you can't balance against two things at once that are on opposite sites of the same spectrum. You can either bring swf down to solo - or bring solo up to swf and then balance the killer against this new baseline, precisely so that killers don't get "neglected".
Let me ask you this way: How many people do you know who genuinely enjoy solo-q? I for one don't know anyone. Some put up with it "in the mean time" or use it for Rituals/Challenges or BP-farming - but they don't go "yay! Finally! SOLO-Q - lesss goooo"
That being said: I'm happy to agree to disagree. You believe default-solo-q would lead to a better game experience for everyone involved. I believe it would lead to a worse game experience for everyone involved. I'm perfectly fine leaving it at that.
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No i am not tryin to convince you i just doubt most swf survs will leave if swf wont be an option since the game is not only swf.
And ask all Killers that stopped playin killer or these who dodge lobbys if they sus its a swf. These Killers feel neglected. And the point - and that is what you avoid - is that if you offer a server without swf you will see which concept will work better. How will you play with your friends as swf if there is no killer when they play with random solo survs? Just explain it me.
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Ooopps sry i oversaw your comment. Thx maybe you are right. Maybe i will post in the feedback section some time later.
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