Map resources regeneration?
Dead by Daylight works like this: the Entity tests four survivors and a killer, sending them in a map overflowing with tactical resources, objectives to be achieved, dangers and opportunities. When the trial begins, there is a certain balance: putting aside the various factional polemics, which I have always considered harmful to a healthy and constructive debate, the killer has a power that is basically equal to the cumulative power of the four survivors. During the course of the challenge, the survivors fall under the blows of the killer, who therefore acquires a certain pre-eminence over the remaining opponents, and the resources offered by the map are increasingly in short supply: fewer hooks available, less chests to search, less totems remained intact, less pallets still usable. Let's take some concrete examples, to avoid any misunderstanding:
1) the hooks are irreparably destroyed after the sacrifice of a survivor, and the killer sees his power weakened in that area of the map: the survivors can then take advantage of it, luring him there to keep him busy with the concrete hope to wiggle free;
2) the emptied chests do not offer other items after being searched: if a survivor collects treasures, which are lost because of Franklin or voluntary drop, or consumes them in its entirety, the most diligent companion, who may have been busy to work on generators or to save the survivors hooked up, in the moment of the need is deprived of any help;
3) the cleansed totems cannot be repaired by the killer: it is very frustrating to find one or more perk slots wasted, because the survivors were lucky enough to immediately cleanse the curse totems or even to prevent the activation of a powerful curse (like NOED) by destroying all the five totems;
4) the broken pallets remain unusable for the rest of the trial (unlike vaults): this means that the most diligent and laborious survivor can find himself without the slightest possibility of distancing the killer because of his fellow idiots, who had fun to provoke the killer with flashlights and loops, while he worked for the group.
This means that the wealth of the game is maximum at the beginning, ridiculous at the end: the map is reduced to an inert environment, from which you can no longer take any advantage, and the tension, the adrenaline, the immersion, instead of culminating gradually towards the final climax, progressively fade, disperse, leave players, on both sides, the feeling that the big has already been done, that the outcome is now inexorable, that only luck, no more individual agility or cleverness, can make the difference. I find it decidedly sad, bland, like a film that starts with an exciting, intriguing, breathtaking story, with the protagonists in full of fervor and heroism, but that loses the rhythm, the pathos, the energy in the course of the minutes, is gradually flattened on a slow, didactic, boring conversation of the protagonists sitting down to dine, in slippers and tank top, in the living room of the house, looking tired and aged. So I ask you to raise your gaze to the horizon, to imagine a more long-lasting game mechanics, which offer substantial opportunities in each phase of the trial, so that it is only the individual talent to decree the winner. I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself.
In concrete terms, here's what I propose:
1) the hooks disassembled by sabotage or sacrifice regenerate after 180 seconds (except for the Saboteur bonus);
2) the chests procedurally generate a new object after 360 seconds from emptying;
3) the killer can repair the cleansed totems or imprint a broken curse on a dull totem, spending 6-24 seconds, directly proportional to the time during which the totem remained standing or the curse remained active;
4) broken pallets can be repaired ONCE with a special perk in 18/15/12 seconds OR, alternatively, regenerate after 360 seconds, plus 60 extra seconds per survivor still alive, from breaking (all or only some, randomly selected by the Entity).
Regarding the contrast between "Solo Survivors vs SWF Survivors", which has great importance in balancing, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31320/lets-speak-clearly-of-swf-from-definitions-to-remedies
Regarding the environmental effects, which affect the variety of the game and the tactical challenges of the map, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31674/environmental-effects
Regarding the hatch, which certainly affects the endgame, because the theme is too long to be treated here, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remedies
I ask everyone to respond calmly, with arguments on the merits, without useless shots of anger, in a constructive and possibly analytical manner. 
Comments
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Regenerating pallets? Are you kidding me? A perkless Dwight can run the killer for 3+ generators.
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TL DR: bad idea is bad3
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@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY @FoggyDownpour @MrZapp @Link @powerbats @Tsulan @Master @ReneAensland @Mister_xD @GhostrickSpecter @Dragonredking @Blueberry @Countfunkular @Cymer @Boss @EntityDispleased @The_Crusader @AlwaysInAGoodShape @PhantomMask20763 @Kabu @BACKSTABBER @HellDescent @knell @Fenrir @thekiller490490 @Nickenzie @MrMyers @BieLey @Attackfrog @PiiFree @ToxicFengM1n @AChaoticKiller , who have so passionately commented on the pallet regeneration thread, would you kindly like to read the true, integral proposal, of which that was only a small fraction? If you want to criticize or despise my project, at least take the trouble to examine it entirely, with its weights and balances, with the advantages for both sides, and especially with the timing (a few seconds or several minutes are not the same thing!). Thank you for your kind attention.
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Still no, same argumentation:
Pallets are the most important resource for Survivors. Allow Killers to break already fully finished generators and we could discuss about it again but otherwise all you're asking for is giving survivors an endless amount of pallets without giving Killers the ability to prolong or recover from a match.
Not to mention that 12-15 seconds for a pallet is laughable. 2 Survivors could very easily loop a killer for infinity with such a mechanic while the others repair the gens.
It would be a direct nerf to all Killers but Nurse, which is a pretty stupid thing to do for obvious reasons.
E: Ressssources....
Post edited by PiiFree on5 -
Your idea is just as bad as the first time I read it. You are getting so many posts that don't take you seriously because your idea is so, so, so out of touch with reality in how an actual match in this game goes. I cannot imagine how you could see this as a good idea unless you're playing at rank 20 or something and you just started playing the game a week ago.
The game is already heavily enough in favor of survivors and that pallet repairing feature would completely break the game. You would have infinite loops everywhere. Even with the current pallets we have NOT regenerating, you can loop a killer for 5 gens and STILL have pallets left and you are wanting to even make those regenerate?!
That is why people aren't taking you seriously, because it's just THAT bad of an idea and would be terrible for the game for the reason I provided.
Btw hooks regenerating for killers how you want is basically meaningless and irrelevant in most cases. Almost never has a hook being already used up or sabo'd in this current build caused killers an issue which is also the reason no one runs Hangmans Trick. The chest change isn't needed, survivors already collect way more items and addons than killers do, which is a lot. Totem change would just waste way too much of the killers time in a game where the killer ALREADY doesn't have even near enough time to begin with and is one of the games core issues.
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I cant say that I agree with this. I think the resources in the map are fine. Pallets aren't as annoying as they were before, hook respawns are fine (especially if you have hangman's trick) chests are fine because I like to see them as a first come first serve, besides they're normally ignored at higher ranks because they slow down gen progress. Putting up a totem again is interesting but 32 seconds would be too much. You're spending to much time bringing the totem back therefore no one is being chased which means everyone is most likely on a gen. So again I wouldnt really see these changes necessary. Pallets are still good, hooks are fine, chests are fine. All totems need are better spawns because it sucks having them destroyed in the first 30 seconds of the match. Survivors should have to look long and hard for that totem, through every corner of the map not just spawn in and immediately see the totem.0
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Sorry but you are completely out of touch with the game.
The Killer does not decide how long a game is going to be, aside from a few selection of perks, which all have massive restrictions upon them, adding a virtually infinite amount of pallets would amplify this problem to an absurd degree.
Your Idea to "fix" Hex totems won't work as the Killer will rarely have the time to spend reactivating it, not to mention that doing so in the hope of gaining time is a gamble at best.
The regenerating hooks does not help at all, take the popularity of Hangmans Trick as a clear sign for that.
Post edited by ChesterTheMolester on0 -
Here's what I'm thinking about each point.
1) the hooks disassembled by sabotage or sacrifice regenerate after 180 seconds (except for the Saboteur bonus)
This is something I wouldn't mind, but it would take some of the fun out of hooking people. It has a similar strategic process that a survivor has while choosing which gens to finish. Overall, I prefer hooks to be dead upon sacrifice and I see no good reason to make them regenerate.
2) the chests procedurally generate a new object after 360 seconds from emptying
As much as this would be nice (especially when you're not running self care), items are meant to be a limited boost during a match. If they regenerated items, you would then need to make some adjustments with many values in the game. Just an example; gens would likely get charges added, just to counter the speed that a toolbox can repair it.
3) the killer can repair the cleansed totems or imprint a broken curse on a dull totem, spending 8-32 seconds, directly proportional to the time during which the totem remained standing or the curse remained active
So you're saying that a cleansed hex would reactivate if the killer fixed it? This is actually interesting to me, especially if/when gen rushing is fixed. If the killer has enough reasonable time in a match to do this, I wouldn't mind this being a thing. The specifics aren't quite right, but the idea there is good I think. I would be willing to discuss this one after seeing what the devs are going to do about gen rushing.
4) broken pallets can be repaired once with a special perk in 18/15/12 seconds or, alternatively, regenerate after 360 seconds, plus 60 extra seconds per survivor still alive, from breaking (all or only some, randomly selected by the Entity)
I'm not going to answer this one again, refer to the previous thread for my response on naturally regenerating pallets. On the thought of the perk though... I don't think it would be very useful. A lot of survivors either throw them down far too early (wasting them) or they are good enough that they don't need pallets. Being able to fix pallets wouldn't really help anything, as survivors don't really need them or they misuse them anyways.0 -
Doesn't Hangman's Trick already do the 1st point?
And basically everything else was answered so yeah ^^0 -
But how is this anything else then a bad idea? Pallets are a resource survivors shouldn't waste. Once it's used, it should not come back in any way.0
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Limited resources are better in the long run. It reinforces the need for conservative play and defense weakens when not used rationally. With many still questioning the current level of resources, granting a potentially limitless supply would greatly hinder the balance and flow. Survivors should have to be mindful of what & when they use things. Killer whom is heavily influenced by time management see the expenditure of survivor resources as an advantage in the end game. By making things regen, the value of any action besides chase lose value as they have no impact and tension never truelly builds.0
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Sorry but I'm still disagreeing.
The whole purpose off why pallet and hook (when used for a sacrifice) is so that people aren't reward for mindless playing.
Yes I know that if a survivor waste all the pallet that suck, but it's that part of the game when you play as a survivor, you have team mate, chance are not all of them will be good and I know that from experience.Now to adresse the different proposition.
1) the hooks disassembled by sabotage or sacrifice regenerate after 180 seconds (except for the Saboteur bonus)
Sacrifice hook shouldn't regenerate, it's there to prevent a killer to abuse from the part of a level that might be extremely in his favor and to give some slack to survivor in an area the killer already used similarly to when a survivor used the pallet of an area of the map2) the chests procedurally generate a new object after 360 seconds from emptying;
Since I always think about the worse I'm going to say no to that one too.
I can already see survivor sticking around on the map after the game ended (door open etc...) to loot the respawning chest to farm objective point and hoping to loot a good item3) the killer can repair the cleansed totems or imprint a broken curse on a dull totem, spending 6-24 seconds, directly proportional to the time during which the totem remained standing or the curse remained active;
Playing killer is a race against the clock, If the killer as 24 second to spare to stare at his broken totem for 24 second the survivor are doing something wrong and aren't putting pressure on the killer.
It would theoricaly be nice but the time it would take to fix the totem would make it not worth the hasle in the vast majority of case4) broken pallets can be repaired ONCE with a special perk in 18/15/12 seconds OR, alternatively, regenerate after 360 seconds, plus 60 extra seconds per survivor still alive, from breaking (all or only some, randomly selected by the Entity).
I won't repeat what I said in the opening since it pretty much sum up what I would say here.
So I'm going to mainly talk about your idea of making a perk to repair a pallet once with a perk.
I'm going to start by saying that it being only once doesn't make something balanced or fair, it's basicly the DSProblem™ it is not once, it's potentially once BY SURVIVOR.
Now what do you mean by once? do you mean that the survivor can only fix one pallet?
Or that each pallet can be fixed once?
In the first case that might mean that the most powerfull pallet of the map as the potentiel of being used 5 time
In the second case it mean that the pression the killer has late game will be non existant (especially in the case of pallet automaticly respawning after 360 second) since all the pallet he worked to get rid of will just be back up.
To focus more on the automaticly respawning pallet what prevent the survivor to wait out the time that the pallet would respawn once all gen have been repaired?
Then they would not only have the advantage of being able to split themself between the two door but they also will have acces to every single pallet again.0 -
please stop trying to propose pallet buffs they are fine
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Stopped reading here :"if a survivor collects treasures, which are lost because of Franklin ". lol
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@HellDescent said:
Stopped reading here :"if a survivor collects treasures, which are lost because of Franklin ". lollol great stopping point
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I'm sorry but I still think this idea is beyond bad.0
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@Entità said:
Dead by Daylight works like this: the Entity tests four survivors and a killer, sending them in a map overflowing with tactical resources, objectives to be achieved, dangers and opportunities. When the trial begins, there is a certain balance: putting aside the various factional polemics, which I have always considered harmful to a healthy and constructive debate, the killer has a power that is basically equal to the cumulative power of the four survivors. During the course of the challenge, the survivors fall under the blows of the killer, who therefore acquires a certain pre-eminence over the remaining opponents, and the resources offered by the map are increasingly in short supply: fewer hooks available, less chests to search, less totems remained intact, less pallets still usable. Let's take some concrete examples, to avoid any misunderstanding:
1) the hooks are irreparably destroyed after the sacrifice of a survivor, and the killer sees his power weakened in that area of the map: the survivors can then take advantage of it, luring him there to keep him busy with the concrete hope to wiggle free;
2) the emptied chests do not offer other items after being searched: if a survivor collects treasures, which are lost because of Franklin or voluntary drop, or consumes them in its entirety, the most diligent companion, who may have been busy to work on generators or to save the survivors hooked up, in the moment of the need is deprived of any help;
3) the cleansed totems cannot be repaired by the killer: it is very frustrating to find one or more perk slots wasted, because the survivors were lucky enough to immediately cleanse the curse totems or even to prevent the activation of a powerful curse (like NOED) by destroying all the five totems;
4) the broken pallets remain unusable for the rest of the trial (unlike vaults): this means that the most diligent and laborious survivor can find himself without the slightest possibility of distancing the killer because of his fellow idiots, who had fun to provoke the killer with flashlights and loops, while he worked for the group.This means that the wealth of the game is maximum at the beginning, ridiculous at the end: the map is reduced to an inert environment, from which you can no longer take any advantage, and the tension, the adrenaline, the immersion, instead of culminating gradually towards the final climax, progressively fade, disperse, leave players, on both sides, the feeling that the big has already been done, that the outcome is now inexorable, that only luck, no more individual agility or cleverness, can make the difference. I find it decidedly sad, bland, like a film that starts with an exciting, intriguing, breathtaking story, with the protagonists in full of fervor and heroism, but that loses the rhythm, the pathos, the energy in the course of the minutes, is gradually flattened on a slow, didactic, boring conversation of the protagonists sitting down to dine, in slippers and tank top, in the living room of the house, looking tired and aged. So I ask you to raise your gaze to the horizon, to imagine a more long-lasting game mechanics, which offer substantial opportunities in each phase of the trial, so that it is only the individual talent to decree the winner. I personally believe that the challenge must remain exciting from the first to the last moment, that a player must lose because his opponent proves more skilled or clever, not because the tactical resources offered by the map are now exhausted: I do not like the idea of this going to die of the trial, I do not know if I can explain myself.
In concrete terms, here's what I propose:
1) the hooks disassembled by sabotage or sacrifice regenerate after 180 seconds (except for the Saboteur bonus);
2) the chests procedurally generate a new object after 360 seconds from emptying;
3) the killer can repair the cleansed totems or imprint a broken curse on a dull totem, spending 6-24 seconds, directly proportional to the time during which the totem remained standing or the curse remained active;
4) broken pallets can be repaired ONCE with a special perk in 18/15/12 seconds OR, alternatively, regenerate after 360 seconds, plus 60 extra seconds per survivor still alive, from breaking (all or only some, randomly selected by the Entity).Regarding the contrast between "Solo Survivors vs SWF Survivors", which has great importance in balancing, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31320/lets-speak-clearly-of-swf-from-definitions-to-remedies
Regarding the environmental effects, which affect the variety of the game and the tactical challenges of the map, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31674/environmental-effects
Regarding the hatch, which certainly affects the endgame, because the theme is too long to be treated here, refer to the thread https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/31329/lets-speak-clearly-of-the-hatch-issue-from-definitions-to-remedies
I ask everyone to respond calmly, with arguments on the merits, without useless shots of anger, in a constructive and possibly analytical manner.
Ok I'll say that your ideas are quite bad sorry to say but I gotta say the last time I thought about regenerating pallets, Freddy was the best killer in the game which is almost 1 year ago... Honestly, you should get used to the way survivors and killers are now since the pallets need no changes, for the hook regen thing just simply run that pig perk to regenerate them ^^.
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Absolutely not. The only thing that I’d be ok with, is scavenging respawning crates for batteries to use for your flashlight which always give the killer a noise notification.0
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still gr8 b8 m8. No matter what way you look at it pallet buffs are dumb, if survivors can run killers around the map with the current pallets then buffing them will make it worse. if you're having trouble survivng then im sorry but the best solution is "git gud", And if you dont want to git gud then sucks cause it'd be stupid to balance the game around lesser experienced survivors.
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I did think of regenerating pallets myself as well already. Thing is, as the game is right now, this would not work. Survivors have more than enough pallets to use them effectively until the gens are repaired. Once gen rush gets nerfed hard enough though, they should think about having regenerating pallets definitely.
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You were already given reasons why this wouldn't work and then resorted to the moral stoning argument to try and defend yourself. My responses had no moral stoning equivalents in them and I admire the time put into the idea.
But the reasons given to you show it won't work and your stubbornness to accept that fact means you'll just keep digging yourself in deeper. It's hard to give up on an idea and even harder once you receive criticism of both constructive and non constructive types.
But in the end this just isn't feasible for all the reasons that were given because to make it fair to the killer they'd have to be able to just break pallets automatically just by walking near them.
Just remember the old adage on why this isn't workable.
"Even the best laid plans of mice and men"
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Survivors don't need to keep screwing around forever and the killer should be rewarded for delaying them. It's not like hooks are dropping like flies either, you only have to use/lose a max of 4, which can be circumvented by using the basement. Even still, there are perks like Agitation and Iron Grasp or Hangman's Trick that make hook loss not so bad or nonexistent.
The gain for killers from this change is WAY smaller than the gain for survivors. Regenerating chests and pallets would ruin the entire game and almost no killers would play anymore (may be a bit of an exaggeration but still). The survivors should expend resources as the game progresses. That gives them another reason to escape. If they didn't, they could goof around so much longer. The killer has a much easier time when there are few or no pallets left and survivors' items are low or gone. That's the whole point. Time is intended to favor the killer, and it should stay that way. In fact, I'd be in support of a time limit against survivors (but it shouldn't be too harsh) that boosts the killer quite a bit when the time is up, making it extremely difficult for the survivors to escape after that point, so they have to hurry and get out before then.
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@Entità I see your point and understand your intentions, if we would implement these changes into the game the game itself could theoretically during forever. I already can see survivors waiting and camping chests to get better equipments, especially when the gates are open, what would take the game hostage. The endgame would become a hide and seek and less a struggle to escape.
The current obstacles of the game are not the depleting resources, but the time mechanic.
To this day I do not understand why the killer is on a clock and not the survivors.
If something should "regenerate" is the degenerate of the generators. I understand this would further incentives to gen rush, but also forces the survivors to plan careful how the invest their time. Do I have time to check the chest for loot, time to save a fellow survivor, time to cleanse a totem.
What also would be cool, if there is a map timer.
Like 8-10min.
If the survivors couldn't escape during this time the entity sounds a horn like in Silent Hill, blackens all the gens, blocks all the exit and reveal the aura to the killer, with exposed and Mori option. Only way out is finding the hatch.
If you wasted so much time your team should lose and as the killer, if you successfully disrupted the survivors so long you should win, in epic style.
No longer game hostage taking.
More pressure on the survivors.
More fun in the end game.
This may only happens every 10 games or so, but would be funny as hell.0 -
Pretty sure OP realized that their idea was not the best.
If you take the only limited resource and make it everlasting then there's virtually no end to a match. The whole map would turn into an infinite, as 3 Survivors could repair the pallets while 1 Survivor keeps looping them.
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