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For pro-Deathslinger nerf people...
What do you think of fps games? CoD? CS:GO? In those games, when you aim, it's instant. When that happens, and the other player dies, it's considered skillful. And you can disagree with that, but many more people are gonna be disagreeing with you, seeing as you're accusing them of having zero skill when they're getting loads of kills, and you're claiming you could easily do what they're doing, no matter if they're way more experienced than you or not.
So why is it different in this game? I'll tell you why: because your minds have been altered to where if there's something that survivors don't have counterplay against at all times, even when they messed up and/or the killer played it right, it shouldn't be in the game. Being a killer main, or even maining Deathslinger, doesn't make your approval of the nerf valid. You either don't care for him because you don't play him, or you did play him and overestimated his strength and downplayed his skill ceiling to an outrageous degree. And if those aren't the case, then tell me why!
I know this is old news, the nerf, but I care so much that I never stopped fighting it, and never let it be normalized. You see the same with Hillbilly and Freddy players; they still haven't forgotten either. I have been longing for old Deathslinger again, and I still haven't seen anything convincing me that he needed to be nerfed in the first place.
Comments
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And i quote "because deathslinger makes it a lose-lose in a chase with a survivor"
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I think a CoD comparison might be even wilder than the hockey one.
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What do you think of fps games? CoD? CS:GO? In those games, when you aim, it's instant. When that happens, and the other player dies, it's considered skillful.
Do the survivors have guns too to return fire, like in fps games? Is DbD an fps game? Are characters in DbD of similar movement speed, like in fps games? What works in fps games works in DbD and vice versa?
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Slinger 100% needed a nerf. Games against him were miserable. That said they definitely nerfed him too hard.
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I stopped reading after the COD argument attempt.
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We need a game mode where deathslinger peeks a corner and gets his head immediately blown off by meg holding the angle.
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Which is wrong. The survivor can always do something to get out of their predicament.
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I don't think the nerf really did much to him, his addon pass was worse.
It just felt unnecessary
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Slinger got nerfed to the ground.
Considering he had a limited range, couldn't down over certain loops/pallets while having the smallest hit box weapon, 110% he was completely gutted.
I dont agree with taking away his quick scopes, you could still bait it but you mainly took away the fun in him. Being able to quick scope through a tiny gap to catch them off guard is what made him fun to play... you cant do that now
Then you have all the other nerfs as well. Theres a reason I haven't seen him since the nerf.
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Except my example isn't being used to justify an MMR system and win condition. It's being used to disprove that a nerf was logical, because it's the closest comparison outside of this game that I could use. And it took very little effort to make this comparison, unlike the devs comparing kills to hockey. THAT was a stretch.
I can and will compare it to other games because the gun makes it relevant. You're avoiding my argument. What makes aiming down sights instantly and shooting in those games skillful, but as soon as we take that and put into DBD, or rather a weaker version of it because it's one shot and the reeling mechanic makes it to where you can't even get a down for a good shot sometimes, that suddenly isn't skillful?
Then I gladly accept your abstention from this discussion.
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I have miserable games against survivors all the time, but you don't see me asking that we remove fast vaults just because they're fast. Because that's all the killer nerf demands are about in this game. "Blight too fast! Spirit too fast! Wraith too fast! Deathslinger zoom-in too fast! Must nerf!"
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It ruined him. You can't make the shots you were able to make before. You know, the ones that required the quickest reactions, the hardest reads,... the most skill.
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When a survivor gets to a safe pallet or window, it's a lose-lose situation for killer. Swing and get Dead Harded, go around and they get enough distance to get to the next of 40 god pallets.
Therefore all safe pallets and windows need to be removed based on the same reasoning used to nerf Deathslinger
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I was pro-nerf. As for FPS games, not really my thing although I was into R6S for a while. I won't deny that slinger takes skill, both now and before, and I didn't think he was overpowered before, just extremely unfun to play against
No other ranged killer (and we have a lot of killers with damaging ranged attacks now, so I'm talking huntress, plague, trickster, PH, nemesis, artist, any other I've forgotten) fired projectiles at you without telegraphing it at all. As survivor by the time you saw the gun raised on your screen he'd shot you already. So it wasn't something you actively reacted to. A lot of slingers would just walk behind you tapping m2 so you weave back and forth and lose distance and just get m1ed instead. Or you don't and you can be shot much easier. Since normal chases didn't offer much realistic counterplay the correct moves were holding W from one side of the map keeping objects inbetween you both and the universal killer counter of split up and smash gens. Neither of which are fun, for anyone.
I wouldn't mind them buffing him in other ways at all (his add-ons need a lot of attention, I also don't see much of a need for any distance restriction on his gun at all anymore) but free zoning and unreactable attacks are not good killer design.
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BHVR is just super weird. They nerfed Deathslinger because he is strong at loops and his gun is makes lose/lose game for survivors.
And then they released Artist. She is stronger than Slinger, plus her game is more lose/lose for survivors. If this type killer is alright, why Slinger nerfed?
I swear i never understand what are they doing
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That's something people don't bring up often, do they? Why don't we ever see these killers after their nerf? "Because the people who just used them for easy wins stopped playing them." Nobody picks up a killer and plays the game with that mindset. Nobody. What they do have as a mindset is, "This killer's already not that great, and now they're even weaker? I give up." Nobody sees the feelings of desperation and futility in the killer community after a killer is nerfed.
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I'm not avoiding your argument. I literally offered focus points that you should consider before even trying to justify instant scoping in dbd with the naive idea that it works in a completely different setting. And I offered specific points of difference. Your argument relies on making apple-to-orange comparisons. That's where it fails.
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Hear, hear!
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That reactability that survivors get on other killers doesn't prove why he was OP, it proves why everyone else is weak! And to dodge or not to dodge the shots, that's on the survivors. They have to read the killer just as he has to read them. It's called mindgames, the most skillful thing in the game.
And this talk of "nerf the killer, but buff him in other ways"? It's a bad joke. So many people say it. None of them take into account our dev team. They have a track record of making extremely harsh nerfs and extremely weak buffs for killers. I mean look at what they did to Deathslinger, Freddy, Pinhead, Wraith, Ghost Face, Legion. Those killers got NOTHING, if not had some stuff taken away. So the idea was nice, once upon a time, but the devs won't take to it.
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And my fears of an Artist nerf, as ridiculous as that would be, have not been allayed, because of this idea that she's lose-lose "just like Deathslinger". When are we gonna accept that killers can be strong without being OP, or that the killer should eventually be able to down a survivor without playing perfect in every way? Survivors certainly aren't pressured to play perfect; if they were, the game would be balanced.
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The complaints about Deathslinger's 1v1 seem biased imo.
Most loops where Deathslinger could get a shot, Demogorgon could aswell, and he'd get a guaranteed Health State, without having to pull the Survivor close, as he jumps on the Survivor
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I didn't say he was OP, he was too strong in chase and bad at everything else. As for the reactability making other killers weak, hard disagree. Huntress can be reacted to and has always been a much stronger killer than slinger and well as more fun to go against (both subjective opinions, but I think the majority would agree on them)
Demo requires some time to charge up shred, even a short one, and trying to instaattack with it is extremely punishing as it just makes you do a short m1. He also can't injure with objects (dropped pallets etc) inbetween you.
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It doesn't. Nobody has said anything that justifies his nerf. All I've gotten survivor-pandering, misguided ideas of what balance looks like.
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Exactly! Is Demogorgon OP and unfun then? Should he be nerfed? It's like people don't see how many extra steps Deathslinger has to go through to kill survivors.
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Stopped reading after the first sentence.
Yes, I've played FPS.
Yes, I've played Deathslinger.
Yes, he feels fine.
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"Too strong in chase" is OP. That is basically what y'all are thinking when you say that.
These ranged killers have never been S tier, and most certainly not the ones with ability windups. And since S is the tier of viability in this game, they couldn't possibly be "too strong". S tier in this game is any other game's B tier. The strongest of killers are not even that impressive.
Slinger WAS more fun, because of his quickscoping and small TR, but now that's all gone!
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How can you say that? The slowness of his aiming should be unbearable, especially for someone who's played fps games. You are severely overrating this killer.
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And every single survivor nerf killers call for is because they don't enjoy something. That's just how a game with two opposing sides is going to be.
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Everyone always conviently forgets that slinger hitting the spear isn't a guaranteed down because of his chain mechanic. Like it was fine if his gun wasn't "dodgeable", because survivors always had the option to use the environment against slinger.
His projectile was honestly never designed to be reactable. It's pretty laughable how small the hitbox is and how slow his ads movement is. It doesn't take much effort to out run his gun. The only thing he really has going for him is to zone survivors and it's not like it's unique to slinger.
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I feel you're arguing against different things to what I'm saying.
this talk of "nerf the killer, but buff him in other ways"? It's a bad joke. So many people say it. None of them take into account our dev team.The dev team aren't going to revert slinger's nerf either, we may as well not discuss balance at all.
"Too strong in chase" is OP. That is basically what y'all are thinking when you say that.If he was very strong in chase and very good at everything else (like he could teleport around the map to pressure gens or something) then he would be OP. But he wasn't overall, just unfun (which yes, should also be taken into account alongside strength)
These ranged killers have never been S tier, and most certainly not the ones with ability windups. And since S is the tier of viability in this game, they couldn't possibly be "too strong".Whether or not we should balance around survivor deathsquads is a different topic. Also do you really think huntress being able to instantly launch hatchets would be a positive change?
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My main problem with him is your skill as a survivor doesn't matter. You can make as many mistakes you want as deathslinger and the survivor can play perfect but the second the survivor is forced to vault BOOM guaranteed hit
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As other people have pointed out, the reason it works in those games and not DBD is because those games are FPS games, and DBD isn't. Both teams are on equal footing, have identical mechanics, and the person being fired at can fire back if they're quicker on the draw. None of those things apply to DBD, so clearly a quickscope mechanic - while requiring a form of skill - isn't appropriate or healthy for this game.
This is so obvious that it really should be uncontroversial, I'm shocked people are still harping on Slinger having been totally fine when that's clearly not the case. He isn't in a good state now, I'm not arguing that, but having a power that survivors can't do anything about because either of the only two options they have will result in getting hit is unhealthy.
FPS games and DBD cannot be compared like this. Wild that people were so hard on the hockey analogy, only for this to crop up after it...
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Cods alright cause your enemy has a gun too and can shoot you. In dbd they don't, and have very little to really stop a deathslinger
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Well I dont play much killer nowadays, especially since SBMM but slinger was a killer I really had fun playing and even though I'm on console he was a killer to have fun playing as but now the nerfs have made him harder (janky controls, sensitivity changes from walking to aiming so on a joystick is even worse)
But even from my survivor point of view I miss seeing him, I get I'm more advanced than some players as iv never asked for any of these nerfs but they definitely over did it.
I never see him, I dont see half the weaker killers and that makes my survivor games boring...
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Oh i know hense why i quoted instead of just saying it. I do not agree with slingers or billys nerf at all
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Demogorgon doesn't require that much time to charge his Shred, especially when it comes to a short Shred, which isn't punishing if you know the timing.
Demogorgon can't injure Survivors behind dropped Pallets, but neither can Deathslinger. Demogorgon can, however, hit Survivors that are about to drop a Pallet, unlike Deathslinger, because dropping a Pallet will be prioritized.
Demogorgon OP pls nerf
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Yes he can? He can't down people behind dropped pallets, but if a healthy survivor is hit by the speargun, they are injured no matter what, he does not have to hit them with the M1. That imparts Deep Wound, not the injury itself.
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To anyone who doesn't play Deathslinger specifically. That wasn't further from the truth.
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Deathslinger had (and still has) one of the worst 1v4 in the game. Even though he may have felt bad to face in a 1v1, nerfing his 1v1 (whilst making it feel clunky to play him) without compensating in other areas was a bad call.
He felt bad to play vs in chase specifically. But now he feels bad to play all around. And his already terrible 1v4 is now even weaker.
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Didn’t know DBD was an FPS game.
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Remember, people who thought Slinger needed to be nerfed also think Dead Hard is skillful.
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I play r6.
im best slinger main to date
I never play slinger
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Your argument is, fundamentally, flawed because you are drawing a wildly different comparison between two completely unrelated mechanics. That said, I was a Deathslinger main prior to his nerf and I will never understand why they decided to gut him to the ground like they did. He was already a C-tier Killer at best with a poor 1vs4 who struggled in most maps and whose only fortitude was his 1vs1.
They took all his strong points and gave him absolutely nothing to compensate and effectively tossed him further down into the tier list of Killers making him the worst ranged Killer of the current rooster. I agree he needed changes, but these weren't it and merely removed his viability or what made him fun to play as, but I guess as long as Survivor mains are happy that's all that matters...
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CS:GO is fun and I got to the rank of LEM playing it. But I don't see how that's relevant. Skill in CS:GO isn't just about being skilled at shooting, it's about game sense, positioning, headshot consistency, timing, strats, teamwork, communication, good use of utility etc.
But like I said I don't see how that's relevant. I'm glad Deathslinger was nerfed because he could EASILY zone by just existing. He didn't even need to tap right click occasionally although that also helped. He can still zone right now but there's a small trade off if he aims his weapon, which is good.
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I think that slinger and spirit needed to be nerfed. Also DS, object, COH needed it and dead hard and iron will still do.
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Slinger needed a rework, not a nerf. He wasn't even a strong killer. Nerfs are for strong killers.
Meanwhile, the entire survivor meta has remained unchanged and full of busted perks for years...barely been touched.
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As for the quickscoping nerf, it’s simple.
DBD is not an FPS game, and the players are not on an equal playing field in terms of what they have access to. It’s one thing if I shoot you in fortnite when you also had the opportunity to shoot me.
Survivors are meant to actively run away from and avoid the deathslinger, who is also faster than them, but in reality they also had to expect a shot at any time, which was unhealthy.
As for his terror radius, they should’ve just given him a 24m lullaby and added it on top of his TR. Making it 32 meters was the laziest possible solution and wasn’t necessary.
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Deathslinger literally does everything he could do before. He still has an extremely versatile anti-loop ability. If you're mad that he can't shoot at survivors in .4 seconds, then you shouldn't even be discussing this.
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It was the quickscoping I wanted nerfed specifically, I'd have no problem with them buffing him in other areas and reworking his addons
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Deathslinger went from S-tier to A-tier with his nerf. He’s still dominant in 1v1s. Fast chases indirectly causes pressure in the 1v4.
Now I do think his terror radius should come down. M&A feels practically required on him. I’d rather they reduced his TR back to 24 and nerfed Monitor in relation to killers with smaller TRs instead.
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