http://dbd.game/killswitch
Can different killers NOT have different MMR?
Comments
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Why on earth would you ever want to play against good survivors as a killer you aren't used to?
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Why would they not have different MMR?
I can maybe see all 115% M1 killers influencing each other's MMR, but Nurse and any 110% killer? Absolutely not. Honestly though even the 115 M1 killers play different enough that they probably shouldn't. I mean... Wraith, Legion, and Clown all play pretty differently.
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Because I don't need to get used to killer, I can pick them up in less than 4-3 games
That logic is trash, because you can't just get worse survivors just because you're playing a weak killer
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Okay i see you open new threads for every aspect of you not undestanding/agreeing with the current system.
The killer specific MMR would be necessary but sadly bhvr just gave us a lame excuse for it in terms of only letting you deviate roughly 200 ELO points away from your top killer. Which makes also sense since the basic looping and M1 gameplay stays the same.
BUT among the 27 killer are some that need huge amount of getting used too and would make a separate ELO rating necessary up to a certain point like nurse or blight.
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I have seperate MMR on Nurse,
it is the ONLY killer where the survivors I play against don't suck
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I don't really want my Nurse MMR and Legion MMR to be the same
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It's pretty much the same, if you raise your mmr all killers mmr raise as well. The difference is mild or completely random for what I've noticed.
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The killer MMR deviation is very small.
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Can they? Yes, of course. Originally they all shared the same rating.
Should they, that's a far more loaded question. Someone who's good with a Killer like The Legion won't naturally be good with The Nurse. They play completely differently, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to use the same rating. They're separated so you can pick up a new Killer and learn them without facing the tough opponents you usually do. Even if your first few matches are a bit rough, you'll quickly settle into a place where you're somewhat comfortable with that new Killer. As a bonus, this also means that doing poorly with a new Killer won't tank your rating on others, leading to you being matched against new players on a Killer that you've mastered.
But back when they all shared the same rating, it became very punishing to try something new, so we ended up splitting the ratings.
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A lot of killers' skills can transfer to other killers pretty easily. Not every killer can, but most can.
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Isn´t that how its right now? I remember someone losing 50 matches in a row, while learning a new killer.
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I lost like twenty games at plague when I picked her up. It was awful. I went back to legion and clown for a long time. They play completely differently.
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<question redacted>
Clown, Legion, Nurse, Hag : same MMR. Don't you feel there is something wrong with this picture?
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I would not like it if my Freddy had the same MMR rating as Demogorgon
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Ah...I do think that the 'new killer' MMR needs a tweak, because I know that when I start learning someone I'm going to spend a few games getting absolutely clobbered.
That said, I absolutely prefer different killers having a different MMR. If my Trapper shared the same rating as my Hag, that would mean my Trapper having a bad time or a lot of survivors having a bad time when I play Hag.
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I know that feel, fam. It ruined Freddy for me. And tanking the mmr doesn't seem to be helping. No idea how many games I need to lose until it gives me normal survivors again.
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Wait, you think I want to play Freddy?
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Killers should have individual ranks/mmr.
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Yeah, I would only use like 3-4 killers if my killer MMR was the same across the board. I have a handful of killers I am really good with and predominantly use, but I also like to be able to play most of the other killers for variety and not get absolutely rinsed, which is exactly what would happen. If I wanted to meme around with Myers or Trapper but went against the same squads I do with my mains, it would be freaking miserable.
And every new killer release would see survs running roughshod over even experienced killer players as they learn them.
It is as it should be.
Except there should absolutely also be a practice mode, a separate discussion but a drum that can't be beaten enough.
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So the MMR is designed for OTP players that are only good at one specific killer?
Well, I guess I'm gonna have to spend antoher 1k hours just to raise my MMR on other killers, basicaly hit Rank 1 on every single individual killer
Yet it feels like they do, yet when I don't play nurse the survivors I face are easily mindgameable, get constantly caught in the open, do stupid dicisions, etc.
I don't get how you get clobbered, I bought Trickster and got a 4k and Adept Trickster achievment...
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Im not sure if the numbers are close to reality, and most of them is just leaked content, but just to describe my thoughts and the problem I see I use them to get a rough idea.
I think it is like a kill as killer can give you around 20-25 points of MMR, meaning a game could buff you 100 points. With a maximum of 1900 and I heard something like "the maximum difference between your best and worst killer is 200" it would mean that with a new killer you dont really have "weaker" survivors matched against you. With a maximum of 1900, 200 is not really that much of a range, especially when it only takes 2 games to get on the same level as your mastered killer.
I created a free Epic account back then to get some training with nurse as I really struggled to learn nurse on steam, as I don't really get helpful feedback if the survivor just played well or if I blinked bad, or if I even landed where I wanted to because I get bamboozled by the survivors. So the first 3 matches I got survivors that just run straight, so I could focus on my blinking and building up muscle memory. 4th game was already rough but I still got a late 4k, since then (again: just 4 games) it feels like I get matched against the same survivors as my 5000h steam account, that all know how to play against nurse.
And that was with a complete baby account. I think the MMR range and speed that you get up or down, combined with the limitation of max MMR and min MMR across all your killers doesnt really feel like it makes any difference to have killer specific MMR. If the numbers are slighty corrrect I would guess that something around +- 500 would be the minimum to notice a difference.
On another point, I think you cant even compare 115% killers with each other. Like pick blight. Compare him to Wraith? Serious? No way. If you cant manage to use Blights power appropriately, then it literally hurts you and makes you weaker than if you just use M1. But the point of ranking up your killer is making good use of your power right? So I think you should start at a much lesser value with new killers. If your decision is to M1 your way up in the ranks, then you will have a problem once you get up if you want to learn your power then, which would push you down quickly again.
Is it possible to ask for stats about the MMR spread? Like with emblem match making earlier and the reset to rank 10 it was like (rough guess) 80% of the DBD playerbase was at red ranks. I would like to know if the MMR system has a better spread, also would loooove to know how much the average adjustment is per player. Something like "within one week/month, 80% of the players have a range of 100 MMR (meaning they stay on like 1200 on average and within one week they dont leave the range from 1150-1250)"
That logic is not trash, because how would you be able to get to high MMR if you play a killer that struggles to get 4k? What do you think why you dont see specific killers a lot at high MMR? And who wants you to "hit Rank 1 on every single individual killer"? BHVR does not. There is not even a rank 1 in that regard
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So you're saying a killer that struggles to get a 4k should automaticaly have low mmr?
Do you know that enables things like purpusefuly lowering MMR or smurfing to see other killers?
And as for rank 1, who cares about who I am, this is my thing, and if wanting to face good survivors on all killers is not allowed, burn me.
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Honestly I feel it doesn't matter what killer I pick. If survivors are waiting in que, the game will throw out my mmr and tell me to deal with it -.-
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I dont get your logic. Again: HOW should a killer that struggles to get 4k get to high MMR??
You need kills to raise your MMR or you won't rank up. So yeah, if you are a god survivor then you won't play vs a lot of Legions. You would need to lose on purpose to see many of them. Who as a good killer would pick a lot of Legion if your tools of having good games are plain limited and grant you a 4 escape everytime?
If you max your MMR with nurse and play always against the best of the best, then you would suck while playing Legion (just picking a random killer, pick whatever you like to be worst with). So to have decent games you need weaker survivors, or you get downranked. If it is your personal choice to play against the best of the best with every killer, then yes, invest the time to master every single killer to perfection to get there and earn the right to play against them, but don't force every other player to have the worst time of their lives by having the weakest killers play at their best MMR.
Some people like to have variety with many different killers, but dont want to invest the same amount into everyone. If it was your way, everyone would have to sort out half the roster or accept that they get stomped every match when they dont play their main killer
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I wouldn't suck while playing Legion, or any other killer, I'm not bad.
I don't need weaker survivors to have decent games, I need harder survivors or else I will just 3k because I let them escape like 200 times,
I don't need to invest time to master every single killer to perfection, 90% of the killers don't even need that,
mastering the killer isn't really easy when the enemy isn't putting up any fight,
and lastly, are you really good if you get stomped on anything but your main? Or are you just OTP?
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Damn I miss playing in the potato ranks sometimes, lol.
Let's see here. April 3rd you made a thread complaining about facing a killer in rpd, a map you said you hadn't seen before, so I'm just going to guess this is your first 2 weeks or so having this game. You're still at the bottom of the mmr ranking, hopping between killers as you see all the shiny new toys each one has. It's a blast. (Which, as each killer has their own mmr means you've been staying at the bottom, facing the weakest survivor teams) Unfortunately it's not indicative of the game as a whole. I'd love to see the ss of your matches, I'm guessing most of the teams you face lack full perk loadouts, much less decent items. But it's ok. You'll get there in time.
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Looking forward to joining their livestream any day now.
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Yeah... Idk what other people's experience is but I can surely tell you that when I play new killers or killers that I haven't tried before, I still end up facing really competitive survivor teams quite regularly.
Often with full meta perks, everyone has DH of course, knows how to loop, and quite often Red Rank 1 so they play a lot more than I do lol
It really doesn't seem to matter which Killer I play or how much experience I have on them, most of the time.
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Here's a suggestion: Y'all implemented new diffuculties,if a killer is very different,make their MMR separate so you can learn them.
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I bought this game in 2017
shall we swap accounts?
or what is your secret?
that's a good idea, because who needs seperate MMR for a new killer that is M1 based with a different trick up their sleeve
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Ok. So? I've got games on steam I bought during my first marriage that I still haven't played. As per your own posts less than 2 weeks ago was your first time seeing a map that's been in the game for some time. A week ago you learned about killers being locked in the lobby, which has literally been a thing for years. Both of those point to someone still learning the game. It's cool, there's no shame in it, but it means that right now you should still be facing equally new survivors.
Those of us that have been actually playing this game the past few years since you first bought it already know that in the newbie ranks, killer is by far the power role. To the point where it's largely suspected as the primary driver behind the current kill rates.
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Well..goody gumdrops?
See though, here's the thing. Not everyone in the game is a god tier tourney level player - the vast, vast majority of players aren't at your level of blinding perfection, and thus simply cannot go into a game on a killer they've never played before and dominate.
Nor should they have to be.
Separating out killer MMR means that you'll be going up against survivors (ideally) that you have a chance against, but won't dominate or be dominated by.
Ah, ye olde false dichotomy.
He's saying that killers with a weaker powerset or that you simply aren't as experienced on should have a lower MMR than your main, because that's just good design.
I'm not sure whether you're just being contrarian or what exactly your beef is here.
And here we go with the git guddism, while completely missing the point.
If you can jump into a Trapper game and 4k tourney squads without issue, that's legitimately impressive. But most people cannot do that - and this game needs to be designed with 'most people' in mind.
Thing is - there's a huge, huge zone between the crazy strong SWFs you face on your Nurse main and complete newbies. And that zone is where almost everyone plays.
The idea isn't letting every killer 4k all matches.
The idea is, as per what MMR is balanced around, to give you a roughly 50% chance of killing each survivor you face, evening out to a 50% net kill rate across your games. And to find that sweet spot, the system needs to place you in different MMR spots on your various killers.
Some killers play differently to other killers and a handful are so markedly different from the others (Hag, Trapper, Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Slinger etc.) that learning them may not really teach you as much about the other killers.
Again - what's your beef here?
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I wish we had stats on what each of our killers has accomplished. Sacrifices of each survivor character, maps played on, matches and time played, and match results. Give us data!
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yeah, I get that you consider yourself a god and centre everything around you. Would be nice if you read and understand what I wrote about the playerbase in total
And if you're that impressively good, it shouldn't take you long to get to your "rank 1", which I also explained why. Im not gonna repeat on that, feels like it would be wasted effort
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I would love to see that, for both sides. (And yes, I want survivor data separated by character, I don't care that their all essentially just skins, I use different strategy for each one)
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This kind of a double edge sword for me. So i normally play anti loop killers Nurse, Nemisis, Huntress, stuff like that, because at not even a high MMR survivors are really effecient as they should be. So when you get it a chase, pallets are being thrown super early and safely as the gens will finish before the pallets run out. That being said when you go to play a new killer say like sadako and you play only antiloop killers but your MMR is close to the same it is very punishing. I played maybe 3 games with her and got so discouraged i went back to my normal killers to be competitive.
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You'd need to tank your mmr with every killer before it starts to make an impact, no?
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What's my beef is that I have like 11 killers more or less, and only one of them I get a challange, on all other I get easy 4k no pressure or sweat.
Or that I'm that kind that doesn't need to get used to ######### - I bought Trickster, equiped his 3 perks and in my first game I got 4k and Adept achievment,
though I gotta admit on Trickster I did get in less than 5 games 2 survivors that I "had fun" to play agianst AKA they didn't go down in 10 seconds..
If only David didn't share his perk with others.. (teachables)
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Do you happen to have a Twitch or YouTube channel? I'd love to watch you play sometime, because even the 8-10k hour monster streamers absolutely don't get an easy 4k every game against the nutso tourney level SWFs they face at times.
Not calling you a liar, just really curious to see what you're doing that they aren't.
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Maybe it's because I'm not getting 4DH SWF with 4BNP sweat lords but potato survivors?
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Then you're either smurfing your MMR down or are bugged somehow.
If you're *really* 4king every game on killers you've never played before, you should be facing meta sweatsquads.
Again, it would be really helpful if you'd show us your games, because what you're describing runs completely contrary to my experiences both playing and watching some of the best players in the world.
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Exactly! Because there seems to be no difference. I remember a dev stream, where they talked about sbmmr and how people would be able to start learning nurse, without facing rank 1 survivors (actual example).
Which obviously isn´t the case.
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I have similar experiences. The current system that seemingly prioritizes queue times over everything else during most periods is, in my opinion, where the problem lies.
When I'm playing killer during peak hours, there often seems to be no rhyme or reason to who I get as opponents. I'll be playing Pig, who I almost never get less than a 2K with (and most often, if I'm not in a meme game, will 3-4K with), and I'll get a lobby where I have survivors crouch-walking in front of me, not looking around, while I'm coming NOT in stealth right after them, as if they're barely paying attention to their surroundings. Then, I'll move to Nurse (who I have decidedly worse results with) or someone like Trickster (who, on console, I have loads of trouble with. and who I get 4-outed more with than anything), and I have 4-person SWF who all know how to run loops, split up on gens, etc.
There's absolutely no consistency. I play all of the killers with varying degrees of success, with my overall kill rate being largely really good, and I'm getting everything from super-teams to brand new players and everything in between, with no pattern based on whatever killer I'm playing and what my results either are with them, or at killer in general.
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From what we know, your MMR on your 'new' killer gets pegged somewhere below your highest MMR on a killer (which is daft).
This is the other issue, and hopefully with the upcoming MMR tweaks it'll be fixed.
The problem is that:
- When a lobby dodge occurs, the system grabs the next available person with little rhyme or reason. I think that this is what causes the weirdness in prime time games.
- The system does seem to prioritize queue time over match quality, or at least it used to.
That said...something seems to have been changed since the MMR testing. I've had much longer queues on killer but, especially last night, far closer games. Didn't have a single one where I felt completely outclassed or was paired up against potatoes.
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The old ranking system was better imo. I'd prefer to say im a rank 9 Oni and a rank 19 Nurse for example
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Old rank was good,
the old one I'm talking about is the one before everyone was rank 1.
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I don't know if I'm able to stream and play DBD it's pretty intensive even though it shouldn't be
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If you have an Nvidia card, it's stupid easy to activate Shadowplay and record a few games. Otherwise - OBS is free and very easy to use.
Extremely curious to watch some of your gameplay, as if you're 4king literally every game on killers you barely play without smurfing down your MMR or something, you may have discovered a style that not even the best players in the world have and you'll probably revolutionize how DbD is played.
I'll keep an eye out.
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My experience last night was definitely different from yours, but consistent with what I saw before the last MMR tests. I literally went from a 4-person sweaty SWF squad playing Doctor -- full-on sabo, body-blocking, med-kits with a syringe for the insta-heal mid-chase, 4 Dead Hards, BT's, Boons, etc. -- to a group that sent me to Lery's playing fake-pallet Freddy who were so out-of-their-league that I literally had to dial back to keep everyone from dying at 5 gens before the game had even started (the Doctor match ended a 4K, I gave a mercy hatch to someone in the Freddy match -- at 5 gens).
Two killers who I do equally well as -- I might have better results overall as Freddy, actually -- and my opponents couldn't have been more diverse. The only consistency in those two matches -- and the ones I had all night -- was the pretty much immediate lobby I got in every game. As you said, hopefully whatever they tweak in the future with SBMM fixes these type of situations -- I expect to go against the first group of players, but I felt genuinely bad for that second group.
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