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Dead Dawg Saloon feels too survivor sided
The generators are out in the open so you can't really sneak up on them, there are tiny corners that you hit when you try and m1 someone, and that window by the generator on top of the saloon is just a guarantee for that gen to be done.
I believe that simply closing off that one window and getting rid of some of the clutter, even just as much as 5% of it, could make it more viable for the killer while not making it unfair to the survivors.
Comments
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It's more of the fact the map is very small and gens are easy to find so everyone is consistently pushing gens.
Combine that with the strong main building and killer shack near centre it can be quite challenging for any basic attack killer.
The maps definitely not survivor sided though even if the main building is an easy time waste
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This map is nowhere near as killer favoring as people say.
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How is it not survivor sided when there's basically no weak pallets, the gens are spread far, and the main building has 3 strong windows, and one of those is a god window until the breakable wall is broken?
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the map is mostly weak pallets, other than pallets in the tiles there are only ~2 strong pallets on the map
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It's pretty bad until you break the walls.
After that its Killer-sided
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Easily my most disliked map feels awful to play on regardless of role
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My favorite map in the game. Always happy when I get it
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it's literally one of the FEW balanced maps in the game (despite i hate certain loops present in that map, it's fair that survivors have at least 2 strong loops imo)
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I would say its probs the most killer sided map. other then maybe new Haddonfield(shudder)
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you do realize that this map is one of strongest killer maps right for simple fact that most of filler pallets are unsafe and can be won by basic m1 killer. you'd wish fracture cowshed takes a lesson from this map.
I would say there are 6 major time-wasting tiles that the killer has to watch out for.
Window after going up Staircase
Window that is facing Staircase
Shack pallet
The corner-tower pallet
The extended tiles, generally a jungle-gym like structure that has 2 windows 1 pallet and extended T-L wall with breakable wall.
Apart from Shack pallet and that corner-tower pallet, most of these structures can be made unsafe by breaking breakable wall. in fact every time I load into this map, The 3 breakables that I end up breaking is that breakable wall on far edge jungle gym window, the breakable wall on bottom floor window and the breakable wall on top of staircase.
gen spread is not far. a easy 3 gen you can do is on platform gen and other two generator on backfield. Your suppose ignore top generator in main building because that building is safest part of the map for survivor.
When they showed map statistics for midwich elementary school being deadliest killer map, I thought that dead dog saloon would be deadliest map.
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It's a pretty balanced map overall IMO where it's a bit favorable for the killer side. I have great back and forth matches in this map. IMO, most of the current maps can learn something from Dead Dawg.
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So if you just break all of the breakable walls, it's balanced? Not a good argument. Also, the gens are too far apart, at least once the middle gen has been done, a game-ending thing to have happen to the killer. You see the same thing on Gas Heaven where you do one middle gen, and the map is irreparably split. And "just defend it" isn't an option. If you defend the gen too hard, they'll just push on other gens til you lose interest in that one, and then when you leave they push in on that one. Survivors aren't so one-minded like even survivor mains like to think.
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I got my Freddy Adept on this map, and he is as M1 as it gets. So it isn't that bad.
I would say that this map loses a lot of power if you avoid getting caught in chases with the main building.
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gas heaven is way bigger map and in that map, when you complete the middle in garage generator, you get that strong window from garage opening which is pure time-waste window for a lot of killers. Gas heaven can have safe strong filler pallets and strong tilesets with no breakable walls. with dead dog saloon, there is no reward for survivors completing top generators. in many ways, you can consider that generator loss from the start. There are some killers that can defend it... like... nurse and maybe hag, but you should not go out of your way to really defend it. Bottomline is that you should treat generators as resource similar to how survivors treat pallets as resource. Not every generator is worth defending unless your going for 4k at 5 gens challenge which won't happen vs strong survivor teams anyway.
On dead dog saloon, you have option to make problematic areas weaker. On say fracture cowshed, you do not have choice to make loops weaker. They're just that strong with no possible way to change it. Not saying breakable walls are good way to balance maps but for that map in particular, breakable wall fix problematic areas of that map and make the map pretty killer-favored if the killer is remotely good.
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It seems like no matter what gens you defend or don't the gens still get done. That's why I've been pushing the meta of Corrupt/Deadlock/No Way Out/NOED, because there's no point in defending the gens, so might as well slow the game down as much as possible and prepare for endgame anyway.
The problematic areas on Dead Dawg stay problematic. Breaking the walls isn't enough. All 3 windows at main building are still strong, with the exception of the top window next to the gen, and even then depending on which direction the killer's chasing, or if the pallet's against the wall on the bottom floor, it's still strong.
I still uphold that all maps are survivor sided. You can't try to reason that there aren't enough strong pallets for survivors, because every map has more than enough pallets, strong or not, and pre-dropping them is enough time waste for 5 gens to be done. And windows can be used infinitely, except for 3 times in one chase, so you never run out of those, and that's what makes them basically as strong as pallets.
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Saloon is killer sided. Small, trash loops.
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Not to mention, very easy to have a three gen occur due to how tiny it is. The gen spread is very small. Easy stalks for Ghost Face and Myers (even if you can’t be as stealthy always), many unsafe pallets and generators, even the only map to feature a weaker killer shack with an optional breakable wall.
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I don't believe Dead Dawg is survivor sided at all, it's most likely pretty even if it favours one side over the other then it's likely to be the killer side, especially once the breakable walls are broken. The tiles are not as safe as some other maps, even some of the ones with strong pallets are playable from the killer point of view.
It seems to be a map that most killers do very well on
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Almost all pallets on Dead Dawg Saloon are unsafe when dropped. 3 gen's are common near the hangman corner or behind the houses, in the corner. Trying to run around Dead Dawg's saloon's shack smoothly is asking to give away a free hit. Same with many of its loops, you can't hug them smoothly like you can e.g., on Macmillan because you'll get stuck on something.
Main building is good though, killers should always prioritize breaking the 2 doors near the good windows.
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Shelter Woods entered the room.
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Most of the pallets are mind gamed easily or unsafe. Kick in the breakable walls on shack and main building and you're fine.
Also you can keep a tight three gen at the Gallows side if you want.
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as someone that plays mainly m1 killers i sigh when i watch people leg it to main building and i kinda wish they'd swap positions of that upstairs back window and breakable wall
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Tbh every single map in the game feels survivor sided when you go up against good survivors.
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If I remember right statistically Dead Dawg is pretty even. The main building is pretty strong for survivors, but outside that building the rest of the map is almost all gameable loops the killer can beat. Personally as a killer I find the main building kind of irritating to chase in but otherwise I don’t have a problem on this map. In fact for a lot of killers having long lines of sight is useful for tracking.
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Hey at least it's big lol.
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Bro I also got my Freddy adept on that map a week ago hahah
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I just like how it looks. The skybox is lovely.
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Let's not forget that killers can get an advantage by the 3 gen strats that can be form in that one corner of the map. The gallows, that one gen in the far corner, and the one behind the building near the gallows.
This is also the map that helped me get a few Adepts to boot, but yea, it's ballence till someone gets a 3 gen of sorts. AND depend on which killer, I guess?
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Overall I think dead dawg is slightly killer sided, but not by a whole lot.
But I like it either way because I like small maps.
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Since when? lmao
You can literally nerf Shack (the strongest tile in the game) with the breakable wall, break the walls in main and it becomes laughably killer sided, pallets get used fast since most are trash and you are left with all gens out in the open.
It's def more killer sided
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You always have a strong 3 gen to work with in the shack corner, and you usually have another 3 gen in the town. It's almost a free game if you get basement in shack.
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Hahahaha Dead Dawg being survivorsided. Its getting really ridiculous in here.
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lol nnah. break the walls and you have an edge as killer. pretty consistently do survivors get wrecked on that map out of the 50 some times i played that map, maybe half of them i've made it out alive, even less than that were multple survs made it
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