Why is there even a complaint about NOED?
seriously its an end game perk
doesn't help you early or mid game, and it can be easily countered by doing bones
which can be revealed by Detective's hunch and Small game
like honestly if i as a killer could cleanse a hex that gave survivors dead hard i would do it every game, screw killing survivors i will roam the whole map looking for it just so i can get one kill without having to deal with bs
and even with noed a killer can lose, because you know, DS exists and unbreakable and flashlights too
so please for the love of the entity stop f*cking complaining about it, when you as a survivor is running the most toxic build in existence and yet SOMEHOW u still think that killers having ONE clutch perk that works END GAME not middle not early, END GAME, compared to what, boons, dead hard, ds, that can be triggered at ANY TIME is very unfun and unbalanced
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Survivors think they won the game once 5 Generators have been finished, which is wrong
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I think most people get upset about it because it's a perk that rewards really bad killers, just like how dead hard rewards really bad survivor play
Personally I would gladly give up NOED and Dead Hard so that they both no longer exist
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☝️ This. Many Survivor's excuse for NoED is 'Survivors basically won once 5 gens pop' or 'The Killer has mostly lost once 5 gens pop.'
What those comments ignore, or fail to realize, is that the game, literally, is not over until every Survivor has left the map. Be it hooks, moris, exit gates, or hatch; until a Survivor has been removed via one of these; they are still open to be killed.
It is not 'pity kills'. It is not 'cheap'. The Survivors DO NOT WIN until they walk out the gates or jump in the hatch. There is no Survivor win-state for popping that 5th gen. Nor is there a Killer lose-state for the same.
The argument is nothing but Survivors inventing a rule and then thinking that rule supersedes how the game works, and then getting angry when Killers, and the game, don't comply.
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Right.
And also they don´t care about totems as it is a timewaste (but they have enough time - see boons). If NOED hits they suddenly think - hmpf why haven´t i done totems... it is completely their fault.
But as you don´t want to admit that the killer is cheap.
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There's a general misconception about it rewarding bad killers, or giving free value to killers who 'failed' in some way, on top of a lot of people assuming that the only way to counter it is to do all five totems before it procs. My source on this is a thread of mine that went on for like 12 pages where I asked people earnestly and honestly for their reasoning, haha.
I do sympathise with it feeling bad to go against, but on its merits NOED isn't even good, let alone OP or unfair.
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It's pretty annoying to be hit by because usually people don't bother searching for the totem in endgame and you are guaranteed a death
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It's a poorly designed perk, in the same vein as DH.
The oft told counterplay of "just wait of DH 4head" is of the same vein as "just do bones 4head".
Neither counterplay is reasonably achievable against normal players and especially not against good players.
Much like with DH, NOED can boost very average players or it can make very good players nigh unbeatable in the right circumstances.
To clarify, I don't necessarily want it nerfed, but I do want it changed.
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Destroying all 5 totems is usually not something I can do unless I use small game because I usually think eh my teammates do totems
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They do not.
I used Small Game for 300 games to see how many totems on average were broken.
It's like two. Even when I was totem warrior'ing, it was VERY difficult to get all 5, with most of the 5 totem games coming against bad Killers.
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As a Killer you have to anticipate everything coming. Survivors usually have the luxury of anticipating what is coming once they have enough information.
NOED bypasses this anticipation/information stream and causes cognitive dissonance for Survivors. Cognitive dissonance is mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. Most survivors believe they are safe when 5 gens are done. When cognitive dissonance occurs, the most common reaction is frustration followed by anger. When situations go a direction we do not anticipate, we get confused, then frustrated, then mad.
This is the heart of NOED hate. A lot of survivors do not believe it is in their game, and when the reality hits, they get salty.
This is my advice for everyone playing: If you anticipate every scenario, you won't ever get disappointed when they happen.
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It may not be a good perk, but unlike many perks I think it's fair to say that it 99% guarantees at least 1 kill, or at least it does for me
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Replace "kill" with "down" and I agree. A lot of the time survivors won't bother to cleanse and save, so that down can translate to a kill, but it's not a guarantee.
That's all it does, though. One down, and then in my experience, it's countered and you're left to try and leverage that single down for more pressure- which is only really possible if you've performed well throughout the match.
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Disagree.
Even if I know I'm about to go against a 4 DH, CoH, UB, DS ect squad, the knowledge alone doesn't convince me that the situation I find myself in is fair nor will it stop me from feeling frustrated.
Even if something is strong, if it has reasonable and achievable counterplay, people are less likely to be so upset. It's why DH and NOED have ALWAYS been such hot topics. Their counterplay just isn't reasonable against even average players.
I'm sure cognitive dissonance does play a role, but I highly doubt it's the main contributing factor.
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i love noed......when that pops, it means i actualy got to play the game....i mostly die but i did get to do gens.
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NOED has reasonable and achievable counterplay. I will not discuss Dead Hard because it distracts from the issue being discussed. It is really easy to lump some of these perks together.
NOED costs Survivors nothing to counter aside from 70 cumulative seconds of time on the totems and the time it takes to find them. If you do not find all the totems before 5 gens, the sound of totems being active is distinct. If you believe your goal in every match is optimal play, get out as fast as possible, and avoid getting hooked, in a public match, then anticipating noed should be one of your goals to eliminate a potential barrier to your success.
If you spent the whole match banging out gens and not getting a totem in between, which generally spawns next to the gens, NOED being active can most likely be the survivors fault, sans the rare 'cannot be found' totem with good placement or the totem next to the hooked Survivor (my personal least favorite scenario).
If people inherently believe that cleansing totems are a waste of time, especially in a solo public match, they are digging their own grave and have no reason to get frustrated if NOED shows up.
These arguments always spiral into discussions about other things, but NOED is no way, shape, or form, in the realm of what SWF or Meta Survivor play.
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I use it on low not good killer as back up because how fast gen go when playing not OP killers
which boom on the rise noed great perk but can be taken out just as easy tho when it pops I try down them near the totem they missed funny some still try save when it still up.
also remember the killer did the whole match with only 3 perks
almost want noed to be basekit that way you most do totems
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It's poorly designed. It's not overpowered or busted, just feels cheap if you or one of your teammates dies to it just because the killer couldn't stop the gens.
And to be clear, I am not saying the survivors have won just because they have finished the gens. That is not the case at all. But what essentially boils down to a free 3-stack devour hope with a speed boost just because the majority of the opposing side's objective has been completed is stupid.
I don't want it nerfed, I want it changed/reworked.
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Hilarious take coming from someone who, in another thread about 4k slugging, said "survivors don't really need perks to get a pity escape after losing", implying that all 4 survivors magically lose just because 3 got slugged and/or killed.
Interesting that you view 5 gens as "not winning", but slugs as "losing" for 4 people.
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The devs are balancing the game in such a manner that the gens should be done in the majority of games. It makes sense to run NOED as an endgame perk to plan for the inevitable. It's pretty difficult to stop all five gens from being done unless the killer is mismatched with the survivors and way stronger. NOED is almost always guaranteed to proc since survivors do not bother doing totems at all at higher MMR and just push gens.
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Yes, 3 Survivors being dead is a loss, as they've left The Trial, and can't come back. 5 Generators being finished is the same as the Killer getting 2 Hooks on every Survivor
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Because devour hope exist. A perk that "REWARDS" the killer for playing well. NOED doesn't reward you in anyway. It secures your 1 kill mostly.
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It's a loss for those survivors, not the remaining one.
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Yes it is. Survivor is a team role. If over half the team is dead, the team lost
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Not quite. If a survivor is alive, they individually have not lost.
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I’m skeptical about claims of NOED being overpowered because if it were actually that broken we probably would have seen stats showing correlations between NOED and higher kill rates than other perks provide. It’s one of the most complained about perks on the forums and yet I have never seen data showing it’s better than, say, Haunted Grounds which nobody complains about. Most of the complaints instead seem to be things like “it’s not fun to go against” or “it rewards bad play” or things like that which are just subjective playstyle preferences. That and the common misconception that “if the gens got done the killer was bad” when in reality the game is intentionally designed so that if the survivors play as well as the killer the median result is 1-3 kills with the gates open. Gens being done is supposed to be the norm, not the exception, when the survivors play well.
So yeah, I’m pretty sure if NOED was really correlated with high kill rates it would have been called out by the devs by now.
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wrong. The survivor who got out through exist gates "wins". Their MMR increases. There's no "team role" in DBD's MMR system. So depends how you view it.
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Not another noed thread. Also no one was complaining about until you brought it up lmao
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Alternatively, it took BHVR 5 years to do anything about Iri Head despite it being blatantly overpowered.
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Well, create a perk that marks 5 lockers and if the killer don’t touch every locker at egc survs move faster and the killer needs 3 hits to put them in diying state. You’ll see if the perk would be meta or not
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I have 5.000 hours as surv and I play against killers with 30 hours that make 0 hooks before egc. How do you think this is possible? Of course at the end they have noed
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I used to have a NOED-trauma and used to dislike the perk so much its presence alone could ruin a game for me. It got to the point where I ran detectives hunch every match and took a map with me whenever I could, just to make sure I could definitely get the goddamn NOED. It was the only thing that would put me at ease. If NOED still happened I at least didn't blame NOED or the killer.
Since then things have changed. I don't usually take detectives with me anymore and neither do i take a map. I also don't mind NOED anymore if it shows up. And that's the key point: *if it shows up*. It used to be present in 9/10 matches and in half of those it was part of some kind of extreme tunnel-and-camp-strategy after the last gen popped. - Now it's in, I dunno, half the matches at best and it matters in maybe half the matches where the killer has it equipped. Either because we got killed before it even got activated - or because we had plenty of room to breathe to just leave or to go find and break it and then go for the save. Very rarely am I forced into the "have to leave/be left behind cause no rescue is possible" situation that ruins the fun aspect of any mstch for me - regardless of whether i lived or died.
That the unfun aspect of NOED wasn't omnipresent made all the difference for me. (and on a side note: personally, I'm convinced DH is very similar in that omnipresence aspect; thst alone takes a lot of fun out of matches, regardless of how much or little or what kind of value people get out of dh)
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But which is it? You said earlier its a perk that carries bad killers but at the same time you can clear all 5 bones vs bad killers....so which is it? Cause people being inconsistent with their complaints about this perk don't make any sense.
Either its a perk that carries noobs and you can easily do bones vs noobs.
Or its a perk that doesn't carry good killers and you can't do bones vs good killers.
^ Which is it....
I'll tell you what it is. Its an excuse people give for being salty about getting hemmed up by an end game expose....An expose which btw is overshadowed by actual threats at end game like ranchor which will not only expose you but kill you. So people feel salty that as soon as NoED activates they instantly lose a health state....WHO CARES??!?!
You literally have a dozen ways to escape and get second chances as well as extra health states after an exposed KD anyway. You can DH, you can BT, you can MoM, you can unbreakable, you can counterforce, you can deliverance, you can detectives hunch, you can boon and prevent hex activation to begin with, you can run small game, you can run wake up and just open the gate and leave like you had jet boots, and thats not even touching the other perks and mechanics that can prevent you from even reaching a hook to begin with along with sabos and flip flops. So, thats perks that let you find totems, disable totems, turn the totems to your own side, prevent KD's, get you back up from a KD, destroy hooks, get you out of a carry to a hook, give you an extra health state that ignores exposed, What else do you need?!?!
No seriously what else do yall need? How much more hand holding is needed to get over 1 perk which on a good day will grant you 1 kill? Serious question.
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Thats half the problem with this game though, people dunno if they wanna be in a team game as a survivor or play the whole match out solo and only count their own contribution to a match instead of assist others. Its actually cracked.
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No Ed just feels cheap to me.
Not like I “won” something through my own knowledge and skill. More like a “gotcha” perk.
Which is why it is deemed as cheap. You will always be able to tell if someone has No Ed based on the way they play.
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All the base perks for new killer players are trash why wouldn't you use NOED if you're brand new lol. It's okay for the killer player to have ONE second chance perk. It's not the end of the world. Survivors have a billion 2nd chance perks
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But don't you know? Survivors get 16 second-chance perks per match. Killers can't even have one. 😏
Also; Survivors claim 'just do bones' is not fair, but they can re-boon CoH 500 times a match without complaint. 🙃
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I actually specified average players, as I am an average Survivor myself.
Also, man really said to use METTLE OF MAN as a counter to NOED. The reach.
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And you also probably face killers without NOED that get 0 hooks, what’s your point? Other than that NOED is a universal perk available to all killers on their bloodwebs without needing dlc?
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Not sure. I'd make NOED and Corrupt Intervention base kit. I bet people would do Totems then.
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Sure, but they did eventually nerf it, along with a lot of other things like keys and moris and a bunch of other things that came on long after NOED complaints have been around. If NOED was that bad it would have been higher in the pipeline than, say, Iri Head or Pinky Finger, etc.
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"doing Bones" is still not a good counter at all against a Perk which makes a lot of loops laughable and gives an Instadown for a Killer who might have not achieved anything during the game (or was just camping the first Survivor they found).
If you spend time searching and cleansing 5 Totems, you might not even reach Endgame, which makes it obsolete whether the Killer has NOED or not.
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If you spend time searching and cleansing 5 Totems, you might not even reach Endgame, which makes it obsolete whether the Killer has NOED or not.
Literally the point of NoED.
If NoED gave away it existed; Survivors would either always cleanse bones (and thus it would never proc), or slam gens when it's not in play.
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Killers have 1 second chance perk which can even be prevented from activating. Survivors have tons of second chance perks. please leave NOED alone...
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Literally the most entitled ######### they do
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My point is sbmm put a very bad killer against a surv with 4.700 more hours than him only because he gets free kills with noed
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Dead Hard still exists.
My point is that just because it hasn't been addressed yet doesn't mean it isn't an issue.
BHVR usually moves very slowly.
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same, good point 😒 i hate both perks
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If the Killer was bad, wouldn't you have time to cleanse Totems?
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What's NOED? I don't think I ever see that perk in the game.
I hope this doesn't fly over your head.
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If NOED is weak, we can change it into a new perk to be more impactful.
Everyone wins.
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