Where is the Variety?
Playing killer for the past few days, just grinding BP with BBQ to dump onto some killers and survivors, Im not a fan of running insanely meta perks, or strong ones at that.
For survivors though, I see the complete and polar opposite. So I decided to play 20 matches and post the most used perks I saw:
Dead Hard ~ 79 out of 80 survivors ran this (shoutout to that one guy running Smash Hit)
DS ~ 70 out of 80 survivors ran this
Unbreakable ~ 40 out of 80 survivors ran this
Boon: Circle of Healing ~ 50 out of 80 survivors ran this
Iron Will ~ 32 out of 80 survivors ran this
Adrenaline ~ 30 out of 80 survivors ran this
To the 19 other perks used, there were just miscellaneous situational perks, such as Any Means Necessary or We're Gonna Live Forever.
Where is the variety? I mean, we see this in both sides but I generally feel like it's unfair for either side to face such strong perks and at that, consistent. It generally isnt fun for most people running stuff that isnt meta or strong to face against the strongest stuff in the game, it's the weakest stuff from versus the strongest stuff in the game, the huge difference it makes for both sides is noticeable.
Im not saying that both sides cant run what they want, Im saying that something, anything, needs to change, this can be crippling for the game. (And, while youre here, I must make it known that I will continue to record the perks I see every game, I eventually plan on making a spreadsheet for public viewing.)
Comments
-
Aside from Circle of Healing and MoM (which got nuked pretty fast), the last Meta-Perk released for Survivors was Dead Hard. Most Survivor-Perks released are either weak or very, very niche.
The only reason why this does not seem as extreme on the Killers side is because every Killer plays different and some Perks can be situational, but good on specific Killers. E.g. Iron Maiden can be good on Huntress and Trickster, but thats about it.
Both sides usually bring strong stuff, but for Killers, there is a bit more variety, because Killers play different. (Of course you can run the same 4 Slowdown-Perks on every Killer, this is also possible)
7 -
Killers actually have much, much more room in the builds than survivor.
Survivor you basically need BT/DS to not instantly lose to a camping/tunneling killer. Especially if the killer is trying to force a kill and you need to go trade, that's where BT/DS come in for me. Since then you may get camped/tunneled off the hook and basically are going on the hook in the first place through little fault of your own.
11 -
Yes but there are still interesting and unique perk combinations for both sides, moreso for killers, but still a lot for survivors, it shouldnt be underestimated. I think people are stuck into this mindset that anything that isnt meta is inherently "bad" (applies to both sides) which isnt the case. Dont get me wrong, there are some pretty bad perks, but something being mediocre or weak doesnt automatically make it bad. There are still a lot of perks that are really worth running that people ignore or dont use, unfortunately you never really see them.
1 -
Perks as a whole are too impactful on both sides. They should not be completely game changing on their own. You just end up in a situation like now where some are so strong that no one uses anything else. Make things like BT basekit but nerf the power of perks across the board.
0 -
Because there are way to many weak perks. Many perks you need coordination to make work. For the people needs your team to have soul guard. Plus going up against a plague with for the people on your build sucks. For sabatour you need someone to tell you what hook your going too. Same for breakout. Way would you use smash hit when dead hard (i hate that perk) spirit burst and lithe are better. I love blast mine and flashbang but they have a stupid penalty when working on a gen with someone else. No mither is garbage and is basically a killer perk. Erban evasion sucks. Left behind sucks. Sole survivor sucks. Corrective action sucks. Most perks either suck or are just super situational. If you could buff them then maybe you see more variety
1 -
Left behind is actually amazing with a key. Basically the only thing that stops you instantly dying in solo Q if your teammates get bodied or DC, unless you wanna leave it up to RNG. Funnily enough it's usually the last survivor with you trying to reveal your location to the killer, rather than the killer themselves, that end up being the biggest threat.
UE was pretty good too until they nerfed blendette. Now I could only see really using it with like a Dead Dawg offering to urban evade around the bushes in the back.
0 -
There is a reason for that. Anything deemed meta worthy is usually going to be game breaking. COH is a good example.
1 -
The problem is not that Survivor perks are weak. They have lots of fun perks that you can get a lot of value out of.
The problem is that perks like Dead Hard are SO INSANELY OVERPOWERED that your average perk looks like trash in comparison.
When people say "There have been no new meta perks since X", what they are really doing is highlighting how busted X is.
9 -
I think it's that many people don't want to have to watch their team die completely helplessly because the killer decides to stand in front of the hook. It's a game design issue they resolved through perks.
It's way too trival to tunnel someone out if those perks are not used. And killer passive slowdown is at a point where doing gens isn't even the counter anymore.
3 -
The problem is devs think variety issues can be solved by changing mmr. When the issue lies with their balance that they take forever to address.
1 -
Especially in solo queue a lot of these perks feel required.
I lose most of my games, since i usually run a combination of
Object, Windows, Alert, Were gonna live forever, Fast Track, Autodidact and sometimes small game.
I run meta if I get sick of solo queue bull and my win rate goes higher.
3 -
That argument works for Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike.
It totally doesn't fly for Dead Hard or Iron Will.
0 -
I think the variety in this game might be up your butt and around the corner. lol
0 -
Forget about what the other side is running.
Play builds that you find fun. So what if they aren't the strongest.
I love Blood Warden at the moment. Useless in most games. But when it works it can be hilarious :)
0 -
^ This.
The never changing survivor meta isn't a result of weak survivor perks, it's perks that are way over tuned and overshadow everything else. In order for a new perk to make it into their current meta it also has to be way over tuned.
1 -
I can't post the screenshot because I'm from my phone, but this is more or less the answer a survivor gave to this type of question in a post game chat I was in. It went something like this from memory:
"Of course, I run DS, UB etc. I get camped and tunneled in 90% of my matches. What do you want me to run, Urban Evasion?"
2 -
You want variety in a game? Valorant has a ton of that!
0 -
I absolutely don't believe the 79/80 had DH stat. I'm sure a lot of them did but we both know you're exaggerating a little bit.
3 -
I totally believe it.
I played 4 games last night and went 16/16 on Dead Hards.
2 -
The perk is just too good. Yes you can bait out bad survivors and sometimes people will idiotically crash into solid objects but when you play good survivors who use it then your chases are exponentially longer.
For me there are perks that have been released which are much fairer than Dead Hard and are exactly how exhaustion perks should be- Smash Hit and Overcome are great examples. One rewards you for actually doing something and the other gives you a little bit of help when you’re in trouble but it’s not OP. The problem is none of them are as good as DH so why would people use them.
When people say that survivors use DH because they don’t get new meta perks, this is because it was too powerful from the get go. A new meta perk to usurp it would probably have to be something like a teleportation power or a rocket launcher dropped off with a helicopter evacuation.
It’ll never happen but a few nights where the perk was disabled would be fascinating to witness.
0 -
Killers have many gen regression perks, so you don’t see always the same perks. But survs have 1 anti tunnel perk, 1 anti camp perk, 1 anti slug perk and only 2 good exhaustion perks. What do you expect?
1 -
They think after nerfing Dead Hard to ground, survivors will waste perk slot to run Smash Hit or Balanced Landing....
Most survivor perk might as well not exist in solo play, so niche and only works 1 out 10+ games
But of course this is the forum where keys still considered borderline overpowered items by killer mains
3 -
Most survivor meta perks are insurance for certain killer playstyles. There are matches where unbreakable, decisive strike, and borrowed time never activate. Yet survivors bring these for the one match where it has to.
Some of the perks individually may only activate once every dozen games (unbreakable), but is still brought just in case. Again, insurance.
1 -
Resolved isn’t the right word, because it still happens with or without the perks. These devs need a serious wake up call to their inherent base game issues.
1 -
Have a pic I got from https://youtu.be/R6PM-whhDdA
2 -
I think the curret meta, which is gen related causes this.
Gens regression is either very slow or gens are to far apart to for them to be reliably slowed, therefore Killers need to have decent mobility to counter it.
Therefore we have the rise of Nurse and Blight, and with their high mobility requires survs to use Dead hard.
Until there is some base changes to the game in the form of how gens are repaired and regressed, the most rewarding/value a killer can get is remove survs from the game, ergo, DH,DS, Corrupt.
And CoH has only made this worse, why let survs run off and get endless free heals when you can kill them instead.
TLDR until gen regression exists, tunneling survs will be the best way to win a game.
2 -
It is part of the vicious circle that SBMM and perks like COH created. Killers now routinely camp and tunnel off hook as the game put many in a position where they feel they have no choice. In turn survivors reacted to the new killer meta but also stepping up the sweatiness and part of that means it is not really viable to be running non-meta against killers who frequently camp and tunnel off hook because they have to.
0 -
Hmm, the only one of them i run in my builds is actually iron will, but thats mainly because i like to juke killers and lose them instead of just extending chases.
However, those perks are used because most killers use the same strategys, like camping, tunneling and slugging. 2 of the top 3 perks affect those situations, with the top perk being able to help with camping and tunneling through helping to extend chases. But there only a few other perks to affect this situations, and could even be detrimental to the user, like no mither. So i am not astonished at all that the top used perks are adressing issues with 90% of the killers.
3 -
Exactly as long as the game designed the way it is, you are forced to run certain perks as survivor, if you dont want to instantly lose against a good killer
1 -
Issue isnt that there arent no good survivor perks the issue is DH,UB etc. Are so good people always run it, it's why I cant wait for that DH change.
Survivors do have quite a few good and fun perks, but at the end of the day most players will go to the strongest ones just because... and you cant make every perk to the DH or COH level
2
