David King being gay is the worst direction for Behaviour
To be clear, Im gay in real life and the collaboration with GaymerX (is that the right name ??) is a disappointement.
David King is nothing representative of the gay community. And doing what JK Rowling did with Dumbledor is just so easy and fake.
I was really excited when Behaviour said they were collaborating with GaymerX to CREATE the first gay character for dbd.
My personal hopes was about a queer character. But I knew Behaviour would not take the risk.
Its more easy to create a gay character who looks straight, but its not representative at all. I know gay with straight look exist, but it doesnt help gay community to be accepted by everyone. It just says its wrong to be queer and its right to be gay but looking straight.
David was the most annoying gay fanfic I saw. And its too easy to recycle this fanfic and make it real.
Even if the character is a gay looking straight I though it would be a new character. I though the collaboration was about creating a whole chapter.
Im just disappointed and I think Behaviour is not supportive as they said they are about queer community.
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I'm bisexual myself and I honestly don't see any problem with David being gay. As you said yourself not every gay person is feminine. And certainly not every gay character needs to be the walking "princess" stereotype. Personally I'm glad they went that direction with a guy like David, its actually a refreshing perspective.
Also I don't really understand why should there be an entire chapter devoted to this. And whatever fanfic you read, that has really nothing to do with anything here. Get over it, its fine as it is.
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"The walking "princess" stereotype"
"David actually a refreshing perspective"
Its exactly what I denounce, its oppressive and almost homophobic to say that.
Thank you to confirmed what I said.
Being feminine is not a stereotype or maybe you are saying Im a stereotype ?
I dont feel represented at all with David I just feel attacked once again. There are 0 representation of feminine guys in video games.
Once again the gay guy is muscle man -_-
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Ironically complaining about "gays who look/act straight" is pretty harmful.
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I'm on the feminine side myself and you are the exact type of person that I hate in our community. You look for reasons to be offended, call everything you disagree with homophobic, are you going to tell me I have some kind of privilege next? Anyway lets end this disscusion here and lets hope we never interact again.
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While you are right that there is certainly not enough representation of feminine guys in games no matter if gay or straight its totally Okey for the muscle man to be gay and he is the first no one said he is the last. Maybe they took the safe route but let's be real taking the safest rout is understandable people are already complaining and if they had made a complete new char people would also complain that he is a toke char. And let's be real it might be a stereotype that the muscle man is gay now but making a very feminine guy would also be a stereotype for many people and you just can't represent every one at once when it's only one char
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You just have no arguments and you know Im right. Thank you next.
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Hey! Achillean dude here!
Comparing BHVR announcing David King is gay as a neat little thing to J.K. Rowling, well known transphobe and raging narcissist who might aswell exist only to serve the needs of horrible people, declaring Dumbledore gay for brownie points from the horrible people she surrounds herself with is a bit ######### up. BHVR hasn't really done anything wrong, outside of make a game that's not really well-balanced, to deserve comparison to a geniunely horrible person like Rowling, no matter how sudden you feel their announcement was.
Furthermore, David King being a gay dude who "dresses straight" (what?) isn't really a bad thing, nor does it try to say that hiding that you are gay by "dressing straight" is a good thing. I myself dress pretty flamboyantly when it's a special occasion, but I usually just dress pretty casually, and people don't really identify me as a dude who likes other dudes from the way I bloody dress. Not gonna lie, it actually feels kind of homophobic to claim that a gay man wearing more casual attire "doesn't help the gay community." Like...is the fact that some of us don't dress in a specific way that tells people "hey, i'm gay by the way" a bad thing? I don't get it.
I cannot believe this has to be said, but David being gay is not going to change anyone's perspective on the gay community, or the LGBTQ+ community at large. It's literally such a minor detail that, at best, there'll be some "funny" trolls who think they are #########' hilarious for tunneling David and, even then, this already happened with people who wore Pride Charms. Can you list any instance where that resulted in people developing a negative perspective on the LGBTQ+ community? I sincerely doubt you can find any example that wasn't concern trolling or just someone trying to find an excuse to be an ass.
Finally, "they recycled fanfic"? Really? That's your problem here? Then I guess literally no character currently in the game could have been the one to be announced as gay instead of David? Cuz, y'know, there is at least one fanfiction about each character in Dead by Daylight being in a homosexual relationship. And, as I tried to say in another thread, making a brand new character for the sake of gay rep is also pretty shallow -- you mean to tell me you are somehow bothered that BHVR didn't make a character specifically for gay representation, and instead chose a character that already had lore? You are somehow bothered BHVR didn't actually do what some people are claiming and pander to you by making a character whose sexuality is, for some reason, important enough that a WHOLE NEW CHARACTER had to be made for it??? Bruh.
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Actually you've just confirmed what I said. Have a good day.
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I'm a trans lesbian and Im happy David is gay, there's nothing wrong with it
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Saying David King doesn't represent the gay community implies that you only count as gay if you act a certain way. The idea that you're not truly gay or don't count unless you embrace flamboyancy is pretty toxic, and this is unfortunately not the first time I've seen it.
It's not like we can't have both. But personally, from where I'm standing - at the point where we only have one confirmed LBGT+ character, I'm glad they're more of a fully fledged character that happens to be gay and not 'everything about my character design screams that I'm LGBT+', because there's plenty of gay people that would find that kind of representation (in the absence of anything else) offensive, so... all I'm getting here is that you really can't make everyone happy. Nor can you speak for the entirety of a community just because you're a part of it.
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I'm gay but do not really care if none are gay, some are or all are, they are characters in a game and it doesn't affect me in real life.
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Let's compromise - David gets to remain gay -but- bhvr adds a note to his lore saying he's a power bottom.
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Its wrong because it just says (again) that the only representative way of gay people in video games are masculine gays.
Everybody says being feminine gay is a stereotype but its not because we have 0 representations.
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So you are saying being a power bottom is kinda feminine ? wow pls stop talking 😂
You all are the ones who makes stereotypes, not me.
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To be fair a character should be allowed to be gay and not have to show throught appearance. It might not show it in game but he will be representive via the lore which we're most likely gonna get thanks to some foreshadowing in the tome trailer.
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The gay community has so many different types of people. I hope you and everyone be it lesbian or trans can have representation eventually. However this is a major step for us and I'm so happy. 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
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you don't feel represented by David. But, by definition, can't you admit that there will be some gay people who feel represented by David? Otherwise, your saying that you only want gay characters represented in a certain way.
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My gaydar is off. If any male character in this game was gay I was for sure it'd be Felix.
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A major step ? Its just a small and easy one.
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Thank you this actually made me chuckle xd
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Some but again its for masculine gay guys and we (feminine gays) are again seen as a stereotype 🤡
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Not gonna lie, this reads like concern-trolling more than actual concern.
I am a gay man, and a pretty effeminate one, at that, and to be honest, it feels so reductionist towards the diversity among gay men, and the LGBTQ+ community in general, to claim that the first gay character of a video game being a masculine guy somehow declares that the only way to represent gay men in fiction is by making them masculine as #########.
Several series have come and gone, featuring gay men who are pretty effeminate and, well, pretty, though that is my personal opinion -- to claim that DbD is somehow single-handedly giving off this message is not only silly, I mean, come on, it's ######### Dead by Daylight, but it is also dismissive of all the work games with bigger LGBTQ+ rosters have put into diversifying their LGBTQ+ characters.
Besides, it's comically easy to make your argument in reverse, and it sounds just as stupid! If they made, say, Trickster the first gay character, I could just as easily bemoan that they are sending the message that the only okay gay representation in fiction is slightly effeminate, mentally unsound men. Hell, you can literally make your argument for any character in Dead by Daylight being the first gay character -- its so stupid, you can apply it to EVERY CHARACTER IN THE VIDEO GAME.
Just get a bloody grip, would you?
edit: didn't see that my previous message got approved while i was typing this, oops lmao
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Like really when I am playing I’m not thinking about who Nea would be attracted to. They are fictional characters. Hell why don’t we find out which ones are vegans?
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I just see that once again feminine gays are marginalized.
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Gamer, I damn near bought thigh-highs for myself before I started feeling worried that my parents would find out and disown me. Some of my friends found out I am gay because I kept wanting to play the feminine men in the games we played together.
I am the #########' "feminine gay" you are talking about, and I think your point is #########.
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i don't like the J.K Rowling esque reveal. "Oh yeah by the way guys, dumbledore is actually gay!!!"
i'm all for inclusion, don't get me wrong. but It feels like an insincere attempt to appeal to our current generation. like come on dude you can't just make the guy gay out of nowhere....
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Maybe you just dont want the things to changes. For my own Im exhausted of this fake inclusion. I want real queer representation.
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I feel like the context is different if the change is arising out of the reveal of new lore being introduced to the game, even if it's with an intentional objective of adding more representation to the game. It's not a retcon to continue to develop the character - "the dumbledore example" is an explicit retcon, where something is declared without having any new material to back it up.
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There is a bit of a difference between TERF Queen Rowling and BHVR's reveals, to be fair -- Rowling clearly did it for brownie points from his transphobic lesbian friends who drool at the sight of gay men, while BHVR doesn't really have that circle, so it was just more of a neat thing than a clear attempt at saving face or appearing "progressive".
BHVR just doesn't really...have a reason I can think of to do this reveal for brownie points, especially since, shockingly, I do not think BHVR is stupid enough to try the same thing "twice," as people had accused them of "going woke" and trying to "appeal to the gays" before with the OG Pride Charm.
Things have changed. Gay people aren't made explicitly for comedic effect anymore. We are seen as PEOPLE. Real queer representation isn't when a male character basically wears a neon sign declaring their love for other dudes, it's when a character is gay and just another guy among thousands.
We aren't some alien horde who needs very specific quotas met for "real queer representation," we are ######### PEOPLE like straight and cis people are.
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Genuine question, what exactly does the phrase "Real Queer Representation" mean to you?
because it can mean many things, to me personally it means "well written character that happens to be LGBT", and if David's tome continues to flesh him out in a interesting way, i think he fits that idea quite nicely
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Let David be that jock from this movie.
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Thats what I though, you clearly dont know what queer culture is 😂
You are talking about a subject you dont understand
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Mikaela is definitely a vegan now. It been confirmed by me.
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why didn't they just make the next survivor gay.... why do they have to take a character which has been part of the game and lore for 5 years and suddenly make them homosexual... i think thats what's bothering people the most
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Can we say dead hard is a gay perk now, or is that offensive?
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Mikaela is vegan, Nea is a lesbian and Yun Jin is a drag queen. 💅
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That's like saying you're bothered your friend you've known for 5 years has come out as gay.
Honestly, I initially didn't like them making an existing character LGBT, but now I came to like it more than a new one. It's even cooler because it feels like a coming out, you know? David's always been gay, but we only learn it now.
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There's nothing stopping them from also making the next survivor gay. And also going back and making any number of existing survivors gay. Why act like this is a one and done thing?
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Because, to be honest, making a new survivor just for gay rep is kind of, y'know, gross? It'd send an actual bad message, too -- it'd tell people that BHVR is too scared of actually making any of their existing characters gay, and had to make a new one just to get gay people to shut up or look cool. Making David gay, at least, makes it a more pleasant thing than "hey we just made a new character btw they are gay."
I dunno, dude, I am not the one who just responded to someone saying "good gay rep can just be a dude who happens to be gay" with "THAT IS NOT QUEER CULTURE," but you have fun I guess.
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Exactly what you think, lets continue to marginalized queer people and only encourage LGBT people that everybody like ! Dont take risk and dont create a male character looking too feminine, gross 🤮
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I understand where you are coming from, but I think perhaps you aren't really making your point come across correctly. This is the part where I would say, it's more about the message and less about the fitting the "stereotype". They obviously cannot fit every single type of LGBTQIA+ characteristic into one single character.
Does this mean that they aren't really supportive? Absolutely not. Does this mean that femininity being displayed as part of a character's characteristic have no place? Absolutely not. It just means that maybe this is not the character that would allow them to fit the characteristics that you want to see.
They did say he is the first step toward more representation. So I wouldn't count out the idea that perhaps a character with more effeminate characteristics might show up in the future.
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i guess you're right
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"Don't create a male character looking too feminine"
I am sorry, but have you seen Trickster before? Cuz, if you think BHVR is somehow scared of making feminine men, I think you either never saw how Trickster dresses, or are just really dumb.
This is not even mentioning the softer outfits characters like Jake, Jeff, Adam and Jonah have, mind you -- BHVR is definitely not scared of making men who aren't buff broskis who are scared at the idea of being womanly.
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Now bhvr's actions are actively marginalising queer people? Your thought processes are bizarre
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Sorry, I saw this only after I responded to Anara, but I appreciate your understanding!
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Thank you to take my point seriously, and responded to me in a kind way.
I understand what you mean but Im just sick of feminine gays being marginalized, there are only space for masculine gays in video games.
Everytime a male character is feminine the devs are always "but he is not gay"
Why is it so difficult to make a gay queer character in video games ???
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As it would be mentioning other games I can't be specific, but another game I play has a VERY feminine looking guy, in fact I thought the character WAS female until I read his lore. Now, the game in question isn't one to go into factors of sexuality so I can't say if he is gay or not, Plus, have you played a Japanese Roleplaying Game? Those are FULL of feminine men, some of which are gay, some of which are not.
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I think you have simply not been looking at the right games -- probably ones made by developers from countries where femininity amongst men aren't as accepted, because there are plenty of games with characters who are definitely feminine, and have been confirmed as at least bisexual by their devs -- Monster Prom & Camp come to mind.
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Yes I know Japan is more open than Europeans and Americans about that.
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There is no similarity between this and what J.K. Rowling did to Dumbledore.
Rowling was criticized because she made a full saga without any hint of homossexuality in any character whatsoever and then, after the books where all finished, she just randomly said one of the most important characters "is gay" when responding to a fan, while that wasn't even planned to go into any book, it was just a random comment from the author from a book that never hinted that... and she acted as if it was planned all along.
DBD has many characters with no confirmed sexual orientation, and sometimes the lore stablishes relationships they had that weren't known before. Right now is releasing a new Tome about David, that will probably tell something about his sexuality and develop him as a gay character. Rowling didn't do that until Warner started a new cinematic trilogy years later. They are not the same at all.
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