Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Get all the details on our forums: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436478/sign-up-now-to-receive-a-recap-of-your-2024-dead-by-daylight-stats/p1?new=1
Does noed hurts killers because it maybe inflates the kill rates?
Is there any data on this btw?
Comments
-
Maybe at lower MMR, sure, but at higher, nah, not really to be totally honest at best you get one or two kills with it depending on the team, most just wait until you hook the person you've downed with NOED open the doors, and leave.
2 -
There is no definitive proof that says: "NOED increases kill rates by X%", it's just assumptions
3 -
Given that killers get nerfed based on kill rates, you're probably not wrong. If NOED didn't offer a chance to get a kill in the end game, numbers would probably be at least 1 lower in mid mmr brackets.
4 -
noed is like ruin, people complain but if you run it.... its cleansed so fast, what noed? what ruin?
here's how your noed game gonna go....
5 gens pop, you got noed, you down 1-2 and the totem is cleansed before ytou even hook one
they all escape
you get teabagged.
we all meme about noed but really it doesnt do much.
7 -
I don't have problem with noed as surv nor do I really use it as a killer because I never got value out of it.
I was just wondering because so many people complain about it. And some streamers consider it unhealthy for the game.
2 -
majority of streamers are unhealthy for the game
10 -
They can filter out matches with certain perks from their data if needs be.
3 -
We know that the developers pay attention to how specific perks, addons, items, etc influence the kill rate, so there's no worry of NOED inflating the overall kill rates and preventing the devs from seeing any potential imbalances there.
...There's also no worry of that anyway because NOED is a bad perk that only inconsistently gives value, but still, the devs pay attention to this kind of thing.
2 -
I don’t think it makes much difference as although they say they use kill rate to balance killers, they selectively choose when the kill rate statistics apply.
For example the last stats had Nurse at the bottom and Blight around the middle (just under Legion lol).
Kill rate is not a good metric to use as it doesn’t count the many factors that affect it; as the killers above are considered the ‘best’ but people playing them at lower ranks make them look worse statistically because they are harder to play. Also it doesn’t take into account wether the kills are suicides on hook, survivors stomping a killer and then refusing to leave at the end ‘giving’ the killer kills, or when a killer only gets 1 hook right at the end but the other 3 throw their lives away trying to get all 4 out.
It really isn’t a good or accurate metric to use for many reasons, as we see with the kills vs escapes MMR issues.
2 -
At best NOED gives you one down, very rarely more.
I suspect that it makes a lot of damage at low MMR but then the killer will soon learn the hard way it's not that useful and will improve or be sent back.
It's all fine.
1 -
The opinion of streamers means exactly zilch. They are only entertainers and have their own biases. They often miss the big picture.
Some even do their analysis by looking at the outcome of games matching their pro level against the average (good) player and use that as "proof".
1 -
At lower MMR possibly. At high MMR not as much I don’t think. NOED doesn’t typically matter if a decent killer gets a 4k before the gens are done, it only matters when the survivors are close to escaping. Unless survivors waste time doing dull totems in anticipation of noed or something and that extra time spent causes them to lose, which I’ve seen plenty of times.
But hard to say for sure without seeing clear cut data on it. I do think it’s an unhealthy perk either way though. Not OP, just unhealthy.
1 -
I find it really interesting that they have all these reliable and discrete analytics, but a basic chat filter is beyond them. How's that work?
1 -
There's no public data. They can filter stats for perks. But the numbers are used or disregarded very liberally to back whatever decision they want make. Sometimes, something is ok because the numbers say so, and something else isn't ok despite the numbers.
We also know some decisions are emotionally driven (see Huntress' Lullaby).
3 -
Thanks everyone I appreciate the info.
0 -
I don't really get this argument. Even at high MMR, NOED virtually guarantees at least 1 kill in scenarios where the survivors did well enough for the exits to be powered. While players can do bones to get rid of it, high level players especially have incredibly fast gen completion times. Boons and pentimento also disincentivize players from going after dull totems unless they explicitly suspect NOED. Better players are more likely to be able to find and get rid of it after its been activated (or make the hard read that the killer has it and do it preemptively) but it still has a very high chance of adding 1-2 kills to games that would have had 0 without.
It pads kill statistics, and robs players who played better. Its not terrible to have in the game due to having counterplay, but it absolutely affects kill/escape stats at all skill levels.
3 -
I doubt it, usually noed only gets the killer 1 kill, maybe an extra one if they had someone dead when the last gen popped
I don't think it's super common for a killer to get a 4k purely from NOED
2 -
Basically all I’m saying is a good killer is more likely to win a game before noed can activate, regardless of whether they have the perk or not.
Noed absolutely can get you a kill or two at the end of the match at any level of play.
3 -
Killrates are definitely not the only deciding factor behind what the Devs balance for.
If that were the case, Nurse would have received massive buffs by now and the Deathslinger, who, prior to his nerf, sat on an even 50/50 escape/kill ratio (according to the last stats we got prior to his nerf), would never have been nerfed.
Not to mention that the Devs can tell which Perks have been used, so they can most likely tell when NOED influences an individual Killers killrate.
The killrate is taken into consideration when it comes to nerfs / buffs, but it is definitely not the only thing they look at, nor do I think its the primary thing they balance for.
1 -
Absolutely. NOED single handedly inflates kill rates significantly hindering their accuracy in terms of measuring balance. I wouldn't be surprised if NOED being turned off for a weekend even lowered the average kill rates by an entire kill.
4 -
Chat filters are actually surprisingly complex (if you don't want them to be bypassed in 2 seconds), and as far as I know BHVR aren't actually developing the chat filter, I'm pretty sure they outsourced it.
1 -
All fun and games till noed spawns next to the hook ;(
1 -
I suspect it does, at least at low-mid MMR. Low especially, because you can have a genuine baby killer that doesn't know to pressure gens, or who stops to kick every generator mid-chase, or commits to a single chase all game, that will whack someone with a 4% speed boost and Exposed, camp the hook, and get at least one kill out of the deal because nobody can go for the save without dying unless some rare solo queue neurons start firing and someone looks for and finds NOED - which, if it's low MMR survivors matched with the low MMR killer, probably isn't going to happen. I've seen it happen plenty of times where the killer has 0-2 hooks all game and gets kills with NOED - 1k if people leave, 3-4k if people attempt to rescue.
At mid-high MMR, NOED weakens somewhat outside of dedicated endgame builds because survivors know what to do and know where totem spots are. Virtually nobody prevents NOED from appearing, because there really isn't enough time to find all 5 totems without a map unless the killer is awful and boons are more important anyway, but survivors get better at handling it once it activates and it's less likely to get a 4k on its own. SWFs in particular can decimate it (unless they decide to be suicidally altruistic in the name of friendship.)
1 -
If it does it's not enough to nerf NOED or the killers that use it the most.
1 -
It mainly hurts new killers by moving them into an MMR bracket where they can only get kills with NOED and sometimes get none. It's a big factor in low MMR and becomes less and less important as MMR goes up. Higher MMR survivors know the totem spawns and will leave an obvious spawn untouched while cleansing (or booning) the out of the way spawns.
That way NOED kicks in, the survivors cleanse the obvious totem, and NOED gets one or two hooks. NOED is an uncoordinated solo team stomper and uncoordinated teams should lose more often than they win. Even at mid MMR you'll see solo queues coordinate in such a fashion that, if you hadn't played solo, you'd think they were a SWF. People complain about NOED since it is overtuned against newbies but it's not against everyone else.
1 -
No way M8.
Everyone knows that NOED doesn't do anything to kill rates. Sure, if they nerfs da NOED, people will just migrate to the next perk that lets them get kills end game...Rancor (which is way better than NOED, but not used as much so survivors don't complain about it as much).
When they finally nerf NOED, we'll finally get to shine some light on the real problem End Game Perk - Rancor.
Enjoy your future Rancor deaths, survivor mains!
HUGE /S
0 -
I think Rancor isn't complained about in the same way because you have plenty of advance warning if you're paying attention and know ahead of time that you're going to have to play around it. It also only works on one survivor barring the obsession changing somehow.
2 -
Maybe? Noed kills more people than 90% of low mmr killers
0 -
In fairness, the killers that use NOED the most are the ones that tend to need it - Trapper and Wraith immediately come to mind. Part of it is because they're both newbie killers and newbies use a lot of NOED, but Trapper needs a fallback if gens go too fast/survivors call out traps, and Wraith doesn't have a lot going for him but the ability to get in the first hit.
1
