Legion's power is the most backward of any killer power.

akbays35

It actually encourages you to ignore a survivor that you are chasing and just hit, just to find another survivor to put a gimmicky status effect on them In her current state she feels like doc + mobility.

MasonHugsCats

It's an it not a she, I don't understand why people don't use the added speed to get close and wait for the ability to fall off to kill someone, it seems like a free starting hit with a bonus effect.

Rebel_Raven

@MasonHugsCats said:
It's an it not a she, I don't understand why people don't use the added speed to get close and wait for the ability to fall off to kill someone, it seems like a free starting hit with a bonus effect.

Legion is a gang. ATM there's 1 guy, and 1 girl you can pick. Sorta like gender select.

Seems like there's a cooldown similar to the Nurse' after blinking is why people don't use it like that.

DarthPancake

@MasonHugsCats said:
It's an it not a she, I don't understand why people don't use the added speed to get close and wait for the ability to fall off to kill someone, it seems like a free starting hit with a bonus effect.

It is though, Legion is both and you can switch between the two genders.

George_Soros

A non-binary killer. Hilarious.
/off, please carry on.

Zarathos

I get the impression that you want to use his power to soften up all the targets and then you just go around m1ing survivours. My only concern is in large maps where survivours are spread out which is the optimum way of playing as survivour.

Potenetially an anti heal build could work considering how fast legion can injure and chain hits. Im thinking thantophobia, sloppy butcher, colourophobia and distressing might actually have a place in the gangs arsenal. Yes im aware mending is not affected by healing but they still lose a health state and very few killers minus nurse can deal as much damage across the entire team. 

akbays35

@Zarathos said:
I get the impression that you want to use his power to soften up all the targets and then you just go around m1ing survivours. My only concern is in large maps where survivours are spread out which is the optimum way of playing as survivour.

Potenetially an anti heal build could work considering how fast legion can injure and chain hits. Im thinking thantophobia, sloppy butcher, colourophobia and distressing might actually have a place in the gangs arsenal. Yes im aware mending is not affected by healing but they still lose a health state and very few killers minus nurse can deal as much damage across the entire team. 

problem is that it doesn't actually slow the survivors down or stop them from doing gens and spreading out. Survivors actually move faster than this killer when their power is down so they always have a mobility advantage the power barely puts you at the same speed as sb/lithe/or bl so they can still evade a chase, wait till your power goes down and you get stunned and just be immersed for a second.

Zarathos

akbays35 said:

@Zarathos said:
I get the impression that you want to use his power to soften up all the targets and then you just go around m1ing survivours. My only concern is in large maps where survivours are spread out which is the optimum way of playing as survivour.

Potenetially an anti heal build could work considering how fast legion can injure and chain hits. Im thinking thantophobia, sloppy butcher, colourophobia and distressing might actually have a place in the gangs arsenal. Yes im aware mending is not affected by healing but they still lose a health state and very few killers minus nurse can deal as much damage across the entire team. 

problem is that it doesn't actually slow the survivors down or stop them from doing gens and spreading out. Survivors actually move faster than this killer when their power is down so they always have a mobility advantage the power barely puts you at the same speed as sb/lithe/or bl so they can still evade a chase, wait till your power goes down and you get stunned and just be immersed for a second.

I thought legions ms was 110 not lower then survivours 100 ms. If so legion needs a better ms to capitalise on his injured targets because right now downing survivours with his power is too add on dependant and comsumes too much time. Im ok with the stun and power i think the main problem is his ms if he moved at normal killer speed i think that would be reasonable as his power can not be relied on to down survivours. 

If behaviour want his power to be his main means of downing then behaviour wants his base kit should down on the third hit of his power as you do eat a stun that hides scratch marks. Allowing for juking. 

Raptorrotas

The new killer(s) are a "they" because its a group of cruel teens hiding behind mob mentality and anonymity.

And yes the abilitiy sounds backwards.
Apply a debuff that doesnt do anything in a chase and forbids you to randomly hit that target again.

Deepwounded survivors can even bodyblock frenzy attacks like awake survs with frddy.

But remember to stay calm and give constructive feedback for the ptb.
(Offtopic :: im more concerned about the sound and lighting changes)

Fibijean

I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

Raptorrotas

Fibijean said:

I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

How do you think this killer counters bodyblocking? Their perk has nothing to do with their kit.

If anything the first survivor to get hit by a frenzy attacks can block the following frenzy attacks and instantly remove frenzy plus fatigue the killer to get away

akbays35

@Fibijean said:
I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

I've played this game for almost 2 years, I watched streamers play him and even they struggled to get Legions power to be beneficial, most games that i saw where they got kills was with a mori or tunneling with m1. My biggest issue is how many perks don't work with Legion, that he/she is pigeon holed into using perks like Thanatophobia and Moniter and Abuse just to help the weakness in their kit. For as complicated as Legions mechanics there is very little payoff.

Fibijean

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:
I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

I've played this game for almost 2 years, I watched streamers play him and even they struggled to get Legions power to be beneficial, most games that i saw where they got kills was with a mori or tunneling with m1. My biggest issue is how many perks don't work with Legion, that he/she is pigeon holed into using perks like Thanatophobia and Moniter and Abuse just to help the weakness in their kit. For as complicated as Legions mechanics there is very little payoff.

I understand the concern, and I'm sure he has his problems, but at the same time I don't think that anyone has had time to really get a good grasp of his mechanics and how to play him, unless they've been playing him nonstop since release, and even then I would suggest they need a bit more time to think things over. I haven't played him yet, but from the sounds of it he's not pigeonholed into anything. Using perks to make up for the weaknesses in the base kit is one strategy, another is using entirely different perks to amplify the base kit's strengths. It's just a matter of playstyle and build. As I said, I'm sure he's not perfect, but I still think he's going to take more than a few hours, which is likely how long most people have played for so far, to figure out.

(For the record, I've been playing longer than 2 years. It doesn't make much of a difference in terms of skill.)

akbays35

@Fibijean said:

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:
I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

I've played this game for almost 2 years, I watched streamers play him and even they struggled to get Legions power to be beneficial, most games that i saw where they got kills was with a mori or tunneling with m1. My biggest issue is how many perks don't work with Legion, that he/she is pigeon holed into using perks like Thanatophobia and Moniter and Abuse just to help the weakness in their kit. For as complicated as Legions mechanics there is very little payoff.

I understand the concern, and I'm sure he has his problems, but at the same time I don't think that anyone has had time to really get a good grasp of his mechanics and how to play him, unless they've been playing him nonstop since release, and even then I would suggest they need a bit more time to think things over. I haven't played him yet, but from the sounds of it he's not pigeonholed into anything. Using perks to make up for the weaknesses in the base kit is one strategy, another is using entirely different perks to amplify the base kit's strengths. It's just a matter of playstyle and build. As I said, I'm sure he's not perfect, but I still think he's going to take more than a few hours, which is likely how long most people have played for so far, to figure out.

(For the record, I've been playing longer than 2 years. It doesn't make much of a difference in terms of skill.)

Well Legion is "fun" to play, but he's objectively somewhere between pig and wraiths strength, big maps screw him/her over hard since he has trouble chaining attacks also not seeing scratch marks really can hurt him if survivors break los. I played him/her for a couple hours and got tired of being genrushed (I don't understand why ptb players do this when they need to learn new looping mechanics) his perks are really good though I can see using Iron Maiden for Huntress and Doc, Discordance will possibly be meta since it's a good survivor locating perk, True Grit is a must have against body blocking swfs but it will be hard to tell when they are in lobby anymore.

EDIT: I'll explain the pigeonholing, you can't effectively use on hit perks with this character's power it doesn't apply (third seal, sloppy butcher). Bamboozle doesn't help him or increase his vaulting, he has a smaller terror radius so monitor and abuse is required to be more stealthy. Mend doesn't count towards healing so you can't use Nurses, Coulrophobia, as far as I know even Dying Light doesn't effect it.

Fibijean

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:
I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

I've played this game for almost 2 years, I watched streamers play him and even they struggled to get Legions power to be beneficial, most games that i saw where they got kills was with a mori or tunneling with m1. My biggest issue is how many perks don't work with Legion, that he/she is pigeon holed into using perks like Thanatophobia and Moniter and Abuse just to help the weakness in their kit. For as complicated as Legions mechanics there is very little payoff.

I understand the concern, and I'm sure he has his problems, but at the same time I don't think that anyone has had time to really get a good grasp of his mechanics and how to play him, unless they've been playing him nonstop since release, and even then I would suggest they need a bit more time to think things over. I haven't played him yet, but from the sounds of it he's not pigeonholed into anything. Using perks to make up for the weaknesses in the base kit is one strategy, another is using entirely different perks to amplify the base kit's strengths. It's just a matter of playstyle and build. As I said, I'm sure he's not perfect, but I still think he's going to take more than a few hours, which is likely how long most people have played for so far, to figure out.

(For the record, I've been playing longer than 2 years. It doesn't make much of a difference in terms of skill.)

Well Legion is "fun" to play, but he's objectively somewhere between pig and wraiths strength, big maps screw him/her over hard since he has trouble chaining attacks also not seeing scratch marks really can hurt him if survivors break los. I played him/her for a couple hours and got tired of being genrushed (I don't understand why ptb players do this when they need to learn new looping mechanics) his perks are really good though I can see using Iron Maiden for Huntress and Doc, Discordance will possibly be meta since it's a good survivor locating perk, True Grit is a must have against body blocking swfs but it will be hard to tell when they are in lobby anymore.

EDIT: I'll explain the pigeonholing, you can't effectively use on hit perks with this character's power it doesn't apply (third seal, sloppy butcher). Bamboozle doesn't help him or increase his vaulting, he has a smaller terror radius so monitor and abuse is required to be more stealthy. Mend doesn't count towards healing so you can't use Nurses, Coulrophobia, as far as I know even Dying Light doesn't effect it.

As far as the first paragraph goes, I'll have to take your word for it because I haven't played the PTB yet.

I understand that there are some perks that don't work well with him, but there are still quite a few left over. Surely there are at least a few interesting builds in there to work with? Every killer so far has a pretty good selection of perks to choose from, even if there are some that don't really work for that killer (say, Myers with Insidious for example). I find it hard to believe I guess that the devs would commit such a huge oversight as to create a killer who is forced to use a very limited selection of perks to play effectively.

Master

@akbays35 said:
It actually encourages you to ignore a survivor that you are chasing and just hit, just to find another survivor to put a gimmicky status effect on them In her current state she feels like doc + mobility.

He is a killer designed for survivors. "no tunneling, no camp fairplay etc"
And thats exactly the problem, if you cant kill someone you are not only wasting the time of the survivor you are chasing, no you are wasting your own time too - the nature of a 1vs4.

MegMain98

Remember when people said Clown sucked? He is a decent killer, one of the better ones actually? Remember when people said Spirit was awful? Now she is easily Top 5. I haven’t seen TOO many videos on The Legion but from what I have seen...the power is underwhelming. I CAN be good with some tweaking, but that is the point of the PTB. People act as though this is the final outcome.

Toxicity23

Let's wait and see how he turns out, people still need to find what he's strong at, and his weaknesses. He's prone to change (Obviously) before he goes public, the point of the Public "TEST" build, is for people to TEST the new content before it's released to the public.

PigNRun

MegMain98 said:

Remember when people said Clown sucked? He is a decent killer, one of the better ones actually? Remember when people said Spirit was awful? Now she is easily Top 5. I haven’t seen TOO many videos on The Legion but from what I have seen...the power is underwhelming. I CAN be good with some tweaking, but that is the point of the PTB. People act as though this is the final outcome.

Yes, which is why players are saying it. Legion is way too weak in its current state and needs changes.

MegMain98

@PigNRun said:
MegMain98 said:

Remember when people said Clown sucked? He is a decent killer, one of the better ones actually? Remember when people said Spirit was awful? Now she is easily Top 5. I haven’t seen TOO many videos on The Legion but from what I have seen...the power is underwhelming. I CAN be good with some tweaking, but that is the point of the PTB. People act as though this is the final outcome.

Yes, which is why players are saying it. Legion is way too weak in its current state and needs changes.

His base speed needs to be 115% and his frenzy requires WAY too many hits on a survivor to down them. His ability is more of a downfall than something that actually helps him in a chase.

mcNuggets

it's actually a hillbilly with no insta down which actually rewards survivors on hit.

akbays35

@Fibijean said:

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:

@akbays35 said:

@Fibijean said:
I think it's too soon to be saying definitively whether a new killer is bad or not. It's been less than 24 hours since release. Obviously there are going to be balance issues, but in terms of basic mechanics, I think it's super cool that they've designed a killer who either heavily discourages or actively counters things that have been widespread problems for a long time - not only tunnelling, but bodyblocking and pallet looping as well. People just need more time to figure out how to play as Legion - it seems like this killer is pretty different and will take some getting used to, but that doesn't mean it's automatically bad or underpowered because it doesn't work with the playstyle that most people have grown accustomed to.

I've played this game for almost 2 years, I watched streamers play him and even they struggled to get Legions power to be beneficial, most games that i saw where they got kills was with a mori or tunneling with m1. My biggest issue is how many perks don't work with Legion, that he/she is pigeon holed into using perks like Thanatophobia and Moniter and Abuse just to help the weakness in their kit. For as complicated as Legions mechanics there is very little payoff.

I understand the concern, and I'm sure he has his problems, but at the same time I don't think that anyone has had time to really get a good grasp of his mechanics and how to play him, unless they've been playing him nonstop since release, and even then I would suggest they need a bit more time to think things over. I haven't played him yet, but from the sounds of it he's not pigeonholed into anything. Using perks to make up for the weaknesses in the base kit is one strategy, another is using entirely different perks to amplify the base kit's strengths. It's just a matter of playstyle and build. As I said, I'm sure he's not perfect, but I still think he's going to take more than a few hours, which is likely how long most people have played for so far, to figure out.

(For the record, I've been playing longer than 2 years. It doesn't make much of a difference in terms of skill.)

Well Legion is "fun" to play, but he's objectively somewhere between pig and wraiths strength, big maps screw him/her over hard since he has trouble chaining attacks also not seeing scratch marks really can hurt him if survivors break los. I played him/her for a couple hours and got tired of being genrushed (I don't understand why ptb players do this when they need to learn new looping mechanics) his perks are really good though I can see using Iron Maiden for Huntress and Doc, Discordance will possibly be meta since it's a good survivor locating perk, True Grit is a must have against body blocking swfs but it will be hard to tell when they are in lobby anymore.

EDIT: I'll explain the pigeonholing, you can't effectively use on hit perks with this character's power it doesn't apply (third seal, sloppy butcher). Bamboozle doesn't help him or increase his vaulting, he has a smaller terror radius so monitor and abuse is required to be more stealthy. Mend doesn't count towards healing so you can't use Nurses, Coulrophobia, as far as I know even Dying Light doesn't effect it.

As far as the first paragraph goes, I'll have to take your word for it because I haven't played the PTB yet.

I understand that there are some perks that don't work well with him, but there are still quite a few left over. Surely there are at least a few interesting builds in there to work with? Every killer so far has a pretty good selection of perks to choose from, even if there are some that don't really work for that killer (say, Myers with Insidious for example). I find it hard to believe I guess that the devs would commit such a huge oversight as to create a killer who is forced to use a very limited selection of perks to play effectively.

You've never used Myers with insidious? It is hilarious even Monto uses it. Idk everything about this killer reeks of oversight issues it's like they went out of their way to make him feel freddy weak and make stabbing someone over and over again feel dissatisfying .

Fibijean

@akbays35 said:

You've never used Myers with insidious? It is hilarious even Monto uses it. Idk everything about this killer reeks of oversight issues it's like they went out of their way to make him feel freddy weak and make stabbing someone over and over again feel dissatisfying .

I don't own Myers. Maybe that was a bad example, it was just off the top of my head, based on the idea that Myers' power encourages him to be moving around the map charging and downing survivors. The point was all killers have perks that don't fit very well with their kit. You're probably right in that Legion has less perks that are adapted to his playstyle, because it's very different to what we've had in the past, it breaks the basic killer mould around which most other perks have been balanced in a couple of significant ways. So that's fair enough, but I hope it's just a consequence of breaking new ground and they'll be giving him more to work with in the future.

I understand the dissatisfaction, but honestly if it bothers you just don't play him. Not everyone is going to enjoy playing every killer, that's why they all have different powers and strategies. Some people may love Legion because of how agile he is, and not really care about having to stab someone a few times to down them.