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Hook positions and Offerings
On some maps, there are not much hooks and on some maps there is litterly every 2 meters one hook.
Most of the maps have enough hooks, which is okay. But i think 2 meters of each other is a little bit too much. Especially if 1 hook is destroyed and you can easily reach the next one from there anyway.
I guess its bad map design like on everything, but sometimes i just think its band aid stuff.
Also the offerings which increases the hook distance often dont do anything? Or they are really on the 0.001% more distance scale.
Is it only me?
Comments
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You're not supposed to wiggle off on your own, or even in a 2man.
The amount of time wiggling off wastes is so huge, that you should at least require 3 Survivors
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Funny you should mention this OP, I actually mentioned this in the feedback forum a few days ago. Glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks this. Yea I think on some maps the hooks spawn way too close. Even using boil over to obscure the hook vision doesn't seem to help very much.
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That's why Saboing and Boil Over are virtually useless. And that's why Boil Over was virtually useless even when it got that huge buff. There is literally 300 hooks every 2 meters.
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Considering that there are 4 survivors against 1 killer it is absolutely very possible and some teams do this they look to make hooking impossible which is an absolute joy to play against *sarcasm*. True as a solo player sabotaging is near useless aside getting bloodpoints for it. As a group though? Not so much.
I was contemplating making a topic on this very subject about whether some hooks are physically impossible to make and whether that is an issue or not. You can drop the survivor sure and go for somebody else but if this happens a lot... well...
Yes some maps have 2 or 3 potential hook locations from a given spot and sabotaging all of them even in a SWF is very difficult but then there's always bodyblocking. In some cases there is only one eligible hook and it's very obvious which one it is and between bodyblocking and sabotaging, it's quite possible that a hook is impossible even with only 3 survivors vs. 1 killer. There are even builds which ramp this up to 11.
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You're not supposed to wiggle off on your own, or even in a 2man.
The amount of time wiggling off wastes is so huge, that you should at least require 3 Survivors to do so
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Maps with 8000m squares like Coal tower. Its funny to see the number of hook spawn is random from 8-12.
Just because of RNG, sometimes its impossible for killer to hook if 1 hook down. Sometimes its impossible for survivors even the combination of Boil over, Sabo, Break out, body block.
Number of hook spawn should be 1 hook per 1000m squares, + 2 hooks always spawn next to 2 gates
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... Or 1 survivor, or 2. Depends on the circumstances. what an absurd statement.
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A normal chase, without Dead Hard lasts about 45 seconds, that's 56.25% worth of Generator time. If the Survivor wiggles off, the Killer has to waste about 15-30 seconds again, depending on if the Survivor plays well or not. That's, 1 minute or more, which is 75% of a Generator. If wiggling off only requires 1 extra Survivor, that's 2 Generators about to pop.
If wiggling off required 2 Survivors, then only a single Generator would've been about to pop, which would be more fair, as when 2 or more Survivors decide to sabotage Hooks and take hits, the Killer can't do anything about it other than dropping the Survivor, which will lead to a quick pick up later on
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Putting all those made up numbers aside, with 0 basis, just everything you explain is absurd. I have prevented hooks by myself, several times, just bodyblocking/ wiggling around the hook, dodging hit then bodyblocking the hook hitbox again (sometimes I had breakout, sometimes I didn't) and generally blocking the way for the killer.
Are you saying this shouldn't be possible by, let's say, teleporting me out of the way so I can't prevent a hook by myself? I don't understand what your point is now that "it should require 3 survivors".
Do you even play this game? I'm starting to wonder lol
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I'm saying wiggling off on your own (Boil Over) or with the help of a single teammate is unfair, due to theassive time the Killer already sank.
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Regarding the hook distance offerings, I do kind of notice them a bit as a killer, especially if the survivors bring more than one.
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P.S. I got curious so I checked out the trivia numbers
- Maps have one hook per three tiles. A typical map has about 155 tiles so that’s about 50 hooks, so you end up with very roughly a 7x7 grid of hooks scattered across the map.
- A single level map is normally about 100x100 meters more or less. So if you lay down a grid of hooks as above on that the average distance between them is about 12.5 meters.
- The Purple survivor hook offerings increase the minimum distance between hooks by 1 meter (effectively spreading that grid out into a larger portion of the overall map.) So the hooks are something like 8% farther apart per survivor offering (and those offerings do stack, you can definitely notice it when all four survivors use them!) On the slip side the killer’s offering decreases the minimum distance by 3.5 meters so that’s also pretty noticeable.
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Well but, if I manage to prevent a hook because I'm good at it, and you're not good enough to just, hit me and hook/change directions in time, it's a you problem.
You really want the game to hand hold you at every step of the way and automatically do things for you. That's not a game, it's called a cutscene.
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You already have 50 chances and voice chat. why do you deserve to wiggle off after the killer catches you?
There are already problems with hooks on some maps. You can create entire dead zones just because you sacrificed one survivor, and you better believe survivors exploit it, when don't they exploit bad game design? (SWF, Haddonfield fences, map offerings)
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Never said that you instantly should wiggle off. But for example if you bring another perk like boil over, there should be atleast a chance if one hook is gone.
And 2 meters from each other is just ridicoulus.
Exactly. Its way to much and makes even offerings not helpfull.
It is only good if the 4 SWF is good cordinated. Apparant from that its too much.
Again, if you balance the game on good 4 SWF's then its terrible for everything else. But i get that its frustrating for killers. Then its probably also about bad map balancing in general.
Exactly! It should balance in between. So if you actually sabotage or dont have a hook you get atleast with boil over a chance. And for normal gameplay it should have enough hooks in general.
Killers bring perks for slowdown and survivors should also get something out of their perk like boil over. Its not unfair.
Maybe it would be better if it isn't stackable but the normal offering gives more than 8%? So everyone benefits and not only SWF's. I guess that would be fairer for killers aswell.
Because wiggle off is a gameplay mechanic. Killers say that to tunneling and camping aswell (which i find unfair in some cases). So why not?
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🙄🙄🙄
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The problem is 4 swf bully squads are probably one of the biggest reason there is a proven killer exodus and as some call them 'whiny killer mains'. Even if you 'win' (because let's be honest bully squads are doing it because playing the game regularly is too easy/boring so their idea of victory is different) it is horrible to go up against and absolutely must be factored into balance. Otherwise soon enough there won't be anybody left for them to bully.
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Keep in mind that perks like Boil Over, Flip Flop, & Breakout exists. Then you have multiple survivors possibly dying in the same area (causing hooks to get destroyed). Those are most likely taken into consideration on the maps where there are so many hooks within close proximity. If too many survivors die in the same area, the last survivor or last two could abuse running over to where the destroyed hooks (from Sacrafices) are, get downed there, then wiggle off. Rinse and repeat as desired. That’s not ideal for the killer.
You’re right where there are maps with poor hook placement (the game bottom floor), so this game does not have consistency across the board. I think those maps are just simply overlooked.
As for the hook offerings, I don’t know if the killer’s value is multiplied in distance by 4 or more, but for survivors, their’s stack so one person using a hook offering will have very little affect. That offering may make the difference between someone getting 99% wiggle then hooked, or wiggle off- but that’s such a low probability (probably the same as Kobying off a hook without any luck offerings).
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I know. It would be nice though with an entire loadout revolved around wiggling off the killer to actually do that at least a couple times every few games without having to find precise spots on the map and still hope that there isn't a hook close enough to give you a chance to wiggle off.
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I've been running flip flop, boil over, unbreakable and no mither for awhile. Trust me when I say it hardly makes much of a difference in most situations. If someone takes a hit and has break out then you have a better chance but its rare. The hook offerings are pointless in my opinion. I have never noticed any difference using them. Even when I see multiple putrid oaks played it all looks the same. At this point I just have to hope the killer leaves me on the ground long enough to get enough flip flop progress to have a chance or even get to use no mither.
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Hook saturation is fairly high. You generally won't notice the effects of petrified oak unless you play an indoor map (least noticeable on the Game, most noticeable on Midwich or RPD), where suddenly the distance between those hooks is filled with walls and other obstacles that make pathing much tighter and easier to disrupt. The algorithm that judges hook distance vertically is notoriously bad, too - you can end up with a big patch of first floor that's hookless because there's one or two hooks on the floor above it.
That would be too powerful. Something like Tenacity/Power Struggle/Flip Flop/Unbreakable sits in a sweet spot where it can be extremely powerful and thrives on teamwork, but the killer has options to counter it once they know it's in play. If a teammate is running around with Breakout, they can be baited and downed or chased off. Pallets will eventually be exhausted. But for the likes of Boil Over - true self wiggle off builds can't be reliable because there really isn't anything the killer can do other than slug you to death.
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Too powerful... in a coordinated SWF thats actually coordinating plays like this. You'll rarely if ever see it happen in solo que.
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Well, that's why self wiggle off can't be powerful. Because if it works on its own, and you can get free more than once in a blue moon without other players bodyblocking or sabotaging for you, that perk or even combination of perks is too strong. Boil Over was a goddamn nightmare for the week or two it was buffed because it required no backup from other players, just a map offering and game knowledge. Sure, getting backup helped, but I found plenty of solos managing it just fine on their own.
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An entire loadout and you still can't wiggle off is fair. Wanna know why?
Because that's still 1/4 of the total Perks Survivors have, and because of how much of a time sink chasing a Survivor that has wiggled off is.
You're not supposed to 1v1 the Killer, you're supposed to 1v4 the Killer. The Killer has to have the upper hand in a 1v1, otherwise the Killer might aswell kiss the Hooks the entire Trial, trying to appeal to The Entity because he can't do anything
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