Rework Nemesis Alongside RPD

Zeon_99
Zeon_99 Member Posts: 463

Nemesis has to be the worst designed killer in the entire game. If the killer is halfway decent, they deny any form of skill from the survivor. Drop the pallet? Whip over it. Don't drop it and keep running? They put the whip away with minimal cooldown and M1s you. Try to juke it? Nemesis has complete control over his camera(Unlike Pyramid Head btw) and can lock onto you with the whips lingering hitbox.

The zombies are a whole other can of worms. The fact that they can just randomly waltz up the a gen that's being worked on and force every survivor to abandon the gen for awhile until the zombie slowly walks away from it is boring. Even worse if the Nemesis how Ruin and the gen loses tons of progress from something completely RNG. A zombie walking into a loop against a killer that is extremely anti-loop is boring. They just simply exist and you lose the chase even faster.

And while this isn't the fault of BHVR, it definitely doesn't help

No offense to Nemesis mains, I'm sure its fun on the killer side, but it's extremely unfun on the survivor side.

Comments

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,987

    Nah, they can keep him as he is. Just nerf Pig again, that should be enough appeasement to show that they care about survivors.

  • Zeon_99
    Zeon_99 Member Posts: 463

    What is fair about anything I mentioned about his anti-loop? Demo at least needs to be somewhat precise on his shreds and he gets punished pretty hard for missing a shred.

    The extra health state hardly matters when all the vaccines are gone in the first two minutes and even with the 3rd health state, he closes in hits so fast that it hardly matters. I can run a killer for awhile if I'm able to actually use my experience in the game and use proper mind games and positioning, but Nemesis just pulls out his whip at pallets and vaults and suddenly nothing matters. Its just like DH, it ignores player skill and mindless.

  • Zeon_99
    Zeon_99 Member Posts: 463

    I don't think he's "good", I just think he's a horribly designed killer. He's very similar to launch Legion. You can still win against the killer pretty easily, but it was boring because the chase didn't matter because eventually you're going to go down and the chase wont be very engaging because old frenzy ignored player skill.

    Crouching behind loops can dodge the hit, but Nemesis can just hold his whip and keep walking alongside the loop, you eventually have to get up to run or else he'll catch up. It hardly does anything against a Nemesis that actually knows what he's doing.

    I'd agree about the item countering him and giving constant 3rd health states if there were more than 4 of them to share with the whole team.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,971

    nemesis is fine if you ask me he just suffers from the pyramid head problem where every add on is essentially bad

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    If all the vaccines are gone immediately that's something you and your team are doing wrong because that should not be happening. Like if you're taking vaccines the second you get contaminated that's just playing poorly.

    Nemesis is fair because they have no mobility they just have the whip and they have to upgrade tiers. So if you're spreading out well doing gens should not be an issue. I'm not sure if you realize it but you can duck the whip at high loops and hitting the whip is much harder if the survivor hugs the killer so Nemesis absolutely has counterplay.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
    edited May 2022

    Nemesis is fine. Leave him alone lol. He is fair and balanced killer.


    He needs better add-ons and smarter zombies, that's all.

  • Zeon_99
    Zeon_99 Member Posts: 463

    The tentacle has a shorter wind up, can be put away quicker, can hit over pallets, has a lingering hotbox, can break pallets and gain more distance since he walks forward, and has much less of a punishment of missing than Shred. Which one sounds better?

    And Huntress is slower and cant just put away her power while maintaining her 115 speed. You can continue to run through the pallet and keep looping and she cant just walk through and M1 like Nemesis can. They are completely different.

  • Sandt21
    Sandt21 Member Posts: 761

    Remove the ability to avoid Nemesis' tentacle by crouching and he'd be perfect

  • lauraa
    lauraa Member Posts: 3,195

    All he needs is his rocket and better zombie control or ai

  • AnneBonny
    AnneBonny Member, Alpha Surveyor Posts: 2,252

    nemesis is just boring honestly

    one of the most underwhelming and repetitive killer powers for a horror icon like that is just. bad man

    he's clearly just designed to be an easy killer for new players to pick up, no-effort map pressure (when the zombies don't glitch out and turn useless) and another copy-paste anti-loop power. i don't care how weak killers like sadako are, at least they're actually fun.

  • Bartlaus
    Bartlaus Member Posts: 1,026
  • Canas
    Canas Member Posts: 1,021

    Nemesis is actually on the weaker side, the fact that he gives every single survivor an additional health state (which can be replenished up to four times via vaccines!) really cripples his early game. It takes far too long to get him to tier 2, that's when his tentacle finally becomes useful. If you ask me his pallet breaking should be available from the start, he's just too underwhelming against competent survivors. Also the fact that you simply can duck to deny his ability entirely is another annoying aspect to his power.

  • JaviiMii
    JaviiMii Member Posts: 286

    I like Nemo because I don't like pallets as a killer. Getting rid of pallets/making pallets unsafe is his thing - survivors still insisting on using pallets as a safe heaven are usually the ones that are the easiest to down; pre dropping ones or "skilled pallet campers" are the survs getting the most value out of pallets with him. Or at least those two strategies tend to keep me busy with one survivor for a good while. Other than that it seems looping similar to how you would huntress seems to be a good strategy for vaults and tiles in general; breaking line of sight also seems to be a generally good idea if your Nemo really likes his tentacle.

    And, since it sounded like someone wasn't aware: you do slow down when pulling the tentacle, similar to huntress winding up. Don't play huntress very often but it at least feels as though she is actually quicker to M1 after putting away a hatchet than Nemo after cancelling the tentacle.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,718

    Nemesis himself is fine. His zombies are not.

  • QwQw
    QwQw Member Posts: 4,531

    Nemesis is definitely poorly designed in my opinion. He's not unfair or anything, he's just really boring and uninspired.