SWF hiding flashlights till the last second...
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It should locked in at the 6 sec for everyone.
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if your saying killer too then your missing the point of this whole thread.
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Both sides need to be locked in case someone complained about killer op again.
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survivor will just do last min switch before 6 sec mark and be in the same boat we in now.
anyone saying Killers are Op are full of it.
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I dont see why you mentioned survivors complaining about killer perks when quoting me, if you read my post you would see I said each side should be able to use what the game makes available to them. Both sides complain about things they don't like and always will you just have to learn to ignore them and play how you wish .
No as its meant to be there for setup purposes and not everyone last minute switches. it never used to happen until dodging started becoming more of an issue. Its a symptom created by the players.
You cant have both locked in at once, survivor say at 30s and killer at 5s but to do this a lobby dodge penalty would still need put in place.
Since that would be argued against like you did about queue times when I first posted this you can see my reasoning why it has not been implemented already.
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You had a ten minute queue as killer? That's unheard of for me. Also a flashlight squad is typically a free win. I have no problem with them.
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Yes killer matches usually take 7-10 mins for me while survivor matches are instant. Try playing m1 killer in max mmrish against god tier looping gen rushers they were coordinated if you're chasing someone gens were being done everything is planned, map offering flashlights sabo perks they worked in duo's and I wasn't ready for a bully squad I had no will to play I wanted to dodge lobby but they had no flashlights till last second. low mmr swf is easy they can't do anything properly but try that with hardcore 3k+ hour survivors.. Unless you play something like nurse or blight your chances are low.
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I do do exactly that, actually. I'm an obligate killer main cuz I lack the patience for survivor queue. If surv queues were seconds like killers are, I'd never play killer. So why not just play the other side?
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Players will constantly test the boundaries and try to exploit the game for their own advantages, if a gameplay element is constantly exploited and doesnt stand the test of time it becomes a questionable problem that could rightfully be addressed. An exploit shouldnt be carefree ignored because good willed players dont abuse it.
Now what i could accept as an arguement for your side is that the increased player satisfaction isnt worth the programming effort, even though the effort seems minor from an outside perspective.
What shouldnt be ignored is that this forum constantly gain threads which focus on this topic, people care about it. A solution would be welcomed no matter how exactly it would look like in the end.
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Who said I don't? I get easily bored of 1 role so I usually play 50% 50%
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Removing it won't help as that will upset the killer players as the system was designed so the killer could setup for the match.
Locking in survivors only will upset them as they may be dodged making there wait times longer.
It is why the only way to appease both is to create a lobby system where survivors are locked in first but if any of them leave once that happens a penalty is given for the next one.
That itself would anger players as there are also many topics on the dc penalty already. Some killer players would get upset as they feel they should be allowed to dodge and it could increase survivor wait time more. There are already threads about the dc penalty afterall.
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I don't think reducing how big a swf can be is the right move. I do agree swfs are the killers of killers, but they also are kinda necessary for this game. They should just make it so you can't abuse so much stuff as survivor. No switching last 15 sec, make solo q better, make killers better, make maps more balanced, there are other things that need changes but how big a swf can be is not one of them. They definitely should do something about flashlights though. It clearly is something that is associated with being toxic even if not being used for toxic purposes.
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Hmm, i can see that because this problem wasnt addressed for such a long time that a bigger change could upset the playerbase and the situation afterwards could lead atleast for a short while to as many complains as we have now. (Long terms these players might realize that it doesnt make a difference).
I agree that this is a reason to not change the visibility of items for the Killer side in lobby.
Now for the original intented way: Survivors get locked earlier. I think most of the playerbase is aware that this is an exploit and there wont be nearly as much complains if a change occurs here.
But to be able to argue further it requires now deeper knowledge into statistics which i dont have available, so i have to work with the mindsets and experiences of people presented on this forum as well as my own experiences.
Current Killer Reaction:
- 1.) I read that killers disconnect when all people switch to items last second. So Dodging these groups still exists even with a penality but how many do that and would it equal the possible dodging time of a new system or would a more fair system probably engage less dodging.
- 2.) Some others percieve it as 'toxic' (unfair / abused) and will do anything to give these survivors the most negative experience in this game. The exploit is currently a pool of toxicity which should be held in relation to the match making time. Because it influences the gameexperience and therefore the longeviety of a gaming session. So not only the Killer gets triggered by this but they spread the toxicity over to the survivors.
- 3.) Other Killers simply do not care enough to get offended by it, even if they wish the setup phase would work properly.
For group one, the people who feel overpowered by 4 itemholders in a swf but get forced into this match through the exploit they will go out of their way to disconnect, a change doesnt matter in relation to the matchmaking cuz they will keep dodging one way or another but their behaviour or the behaviour of new players engaging with this system will likely improve because it feels fair and has less trigger potential.
For group two this change does matter, they can mentally get ready for a certain kind of match and dont get suprised and triggered last second. If they feel really insecure they can dodge but therefore wont spread toxicitiy. I think the dodging rate might actually be lowered here with a new system because they cant blame the other side.
Group 3 seems to me as the largest group and they are uneffected by a change, they join the game no matter what and play it casually.
So because of the disconnecting issue i think the lobby dodging might be just as fast or maybe even improve in long terms since people can actually prepare loudoutwise and mentally to not be as triggered at the start of the game and play a match less enraged which could also improve the game experience for all players involved in the match.
Im not sure if there are statistics out there which could imply in which direction the matchmaking times would actually develop and prove one of our perspectives.
I think it could be worth testing for a duration of 1-2 days and see the results. I cant imagine a huge gap in the dodged lobbies.
Post edited by Impalpable on2 -
Or look at walls or fake a pick up. It's really not that hard to avoid a flashlight save and you exaggerating the difficulty of playing against flashlights is embarrassing.
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The devs could at least make it so the items are locked on the latest 15 seconds, so the killer has a little to get a perk to counter it before the match starts.
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If you say so.
*grabs popcorn*
We'll see once the chapter goes live.
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Just go for slug and camp. Same thing when sabo squads happen.
You play this way and ill play like this. Adjust your play style.
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Last second switching is a great way to get a 10 minute loading screen before going back to the lobby.
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The only counter to that is closing the game, which is really bad gamedesign.
So i highly agree, survs shouldn't be able to switch items, at least after the lobby countdown is locked for everyone.
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Could be nice a 15-20 seconds item lock so killer can change perks with the incoming 3 perks presets.
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Change item = lobby time reset.
Fixed it.
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So, someone can change infinite times and force everyone else to leave?
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I feel you, SBMM made this game miserable killer side, before i had chill games and the sweaty game was like one every 5 games, now is just bully squad over and over again nostop, and is why I left the role i loved for years, kinda sad, now I'm waiting the meta rework they announced at the anniversary.
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It’s unfair yet so many players don’t want SWF removed from public matches. Everyone complains and think buffing solo que and killer afterwards is somehow the answer. It’s not going to change anything- comms trump everything.
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If someone does it too many times they get booted from that lobby
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Just want to reiterate that I've previously submitted a ticket on this exact issue.
It is not an issue/exploit in the eyes of the developer.
I did not like the answer, personally, but it is a direct answer from the source so I adjusted my mentality in turn.
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Interesting thanks for sharing this info. I want to ask now when you submitted the ticket and how you argued your standpoint.
With the sudden new found interest regarding less toxicity that BHVR mentioned in the anniversary stream it might be worth readressing meanwhile because it still is a qualitiy of life issue no matter if the company accept this as exploit or not.
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I think there are at least a couple of recent feedback threads about preventing item change in the lobby for survivors.
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Flashlights honestly aren't hard to deal with but I think for the people who do have trouble they should just allow you to switch killers again during the lobby so if you feel its gonna be rough you can switch it up
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I’ll let you know about a secret only Blight players like myself know about…
it’s called looking at a wall. 60 percent of the time, it works. Every time.
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Something along the lines of "Survivors switching to flashlights at the last second, wherein Killers don't have time to equip any counter-perks/add-ons."
BHVR literally does not care - Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
You can probably find their exact answer in my post history somewhere.
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I noticed the same that every game it's a swf either 3 or 4 stacks like always it's unfair.
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In that case I think they won't change anything about it and ignore it like always sadly
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Unrelated, but...
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As a Riven main in League I can relate lol.
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I'm silently judging your choice of main (I'm trash at LOL, but it is funzo :3 )
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Ofc everyone judges Riven mains I've gotten used to it lol
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2 man SWF max.. Could not agree more!
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So face wall or three of keep your attention on footstep
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Face wall, rock or three or pay attention about footsteps
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Dude you know that most of maps are outdoors? and it's rarely you get a down next to a wall? that's a half assed solution you think no one knows that? still you gonna get surprised with weird flashlight angles.. You're in a race time and gen rushers in high mmr and every hook needs to be done asap you can't slack around patrolling every corner to scare away flashlight survivors and then they end up bodyblocking the hook anyway.
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Oh lord, complain about gens, survivor op, they need to add an button for hook instantly all survivor.
you have perks for everything’s
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Why isn't pickup cancel implemented?
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Now that Mori's are gone new add on Flashlights detected Let's Killer switch 1 perk before match starts after survivors lock in hehehe. 😀
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Yep, and so is tunneling and facecamping. Which, a last second flashlight swap is the one and only time I do so. The way I see it, when a survivor does this (you as a generic term from now on) are telling me outright that you plan to not just use a flashlight if you get a chance, but you are planning to abuse the flashlight and you don't want me to know or else I'll bring Lightborn or Franklin's (No, actually I won't, but you don't know that.) If you had just let me know you had a flashlight, we'd be fine.
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