The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Survivors Need to Stop Complaining About Camping

Laddy
Laddy Member Posts: 20
edited November 2018 in General Discussions

I am a long-time DBD player and I decided to make this thread because it's something I feel pretty strongly about. I believe there is an error in the general attitude of the DBD community. Keep in mind, I am a roughly 50/50 Killer/Survivor player. I love the mechanics and dynamics of both sides.

Almost every time I play as Killer, in the after-game chat I get somebody who whines about my "camping". Something I don't consider "camping", but rather "patrolling my hook". Most of you Survivor-mains by now are probably thinking "then you shouldn't camp noob", but I feel like there are a few key points that players are not considering:

  1. Patrolling a hook is a right as Killer. The Survivor on the hook has been discovered, chased, downed, and hooked. Hook rescues are awarded high bloodpoints because it is considered a HIGH RISK ACTIVITY. You are not ENTITLED to a hook rescue. A hook rescue is a challenge that is rewarded.
  2. It is the responsibility of Survivors to adapt their gameplay and cooperation in order to overcome the Killer. If Survivors are playing against a camping Killer, it is the Survivors' responsibility to either exploit the weaknesses of guarding a hook or suffer the consequences. It is not my fault that you have been downed/hooked because you repeatedly and PREDICTABLY choose to attempt a hook rescue.
  3. How a player chooses to navigate his/her character within the bounds of the game and without exploiting bugs is the choice of the player. EVEN if a killer chooses to facecamp, that is the choice the Killer is making in how to conduct his playstyle. It is up to the Survivors to exploit the weakness of this playstyle by completing objectives while the killer is guarding his hook, or suffer the consequences of not adapting.
  4. People feel hook patrolling reduces their level of "fun", but this is short-sighted and immature. Fun is had by using your brain, adapting to and overcoming challenges. I'm sorry you don't get to raise your rank, but maybe that means you're not as good of a Survivor as you thought you were. A good survivor adapts and overcomes.
  5. The devs have stated that hook patrolling is intended. It is an intended mechanic of the game. Survivors hang on hooks for a long period of time because it creates a cat-and-mouse dynamic: the Killer must prevent the hooked survivor from escaping, and the Survivors must weigh the risk-reward of attempting a hook rescue.

I very firmly believe that anyone who reinforces the sentiment of "killers who camp are bad at the game and make it less fun" is completely missing the point of the game.

EDIT to re-word for easier reading and some typos

Post edited by Laddy on
«13

Comments

  • redsopine01
    redsopine01 Member Posts: 1,269
    Sir I agree with you while I try not to camp unless it's bearing end game or the persons being a right jerk or they died to body block or I see marks so I check I will often do a quick patrol and move on yet I get called a camper because I caught them from a hook rush save even so far as one person told me to delve the game when he was double rushed because I was playing Freddy (not kidding ya first time and they double rush because I can't hit them) and a lot of the times killer camp or run events is because they are sick and tired of the abuse entitles player's think I mean seriously the other day 2 guys in a team dc on me because one was down the other hooked and a guy was not even trying to save them (Like look at it he was not even trying I got it records on utube) but then they go into my live broadcast sending insults ######### msgs to me because they dec9ded to quit the game
  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    @Avariku said:
    Now THAT I can understand, camping can be situational. 
    like end game... if the gates are open, camp away!!! lol. I never blame a killer for camping at that point. 

    Exactly! Now you're starting to see what I'm getting at.

    Personally, when I play Wraith, I'm a HUGE camper. That's what the Wraith does. That's what he's good at and designed to do. Hook a player, cloak, then run a short distance away so you can keep a close eye on the hook and ambush anyone attempting a rescue. When playing against a Wraith, it is very advantageous of the players to adopt a selfish playstyle because altruism does not work against him.

    The Trapper is supposed to surround his hook with traps in devious locations that the survivors are likely to walk. With the Trapper, I will stay in the broad vicinity of my hook, but I will let my traps do some of the work for me so I can check on the nearby generators. Altruism is very advantageous agains the Trapper because the trapper tends to leave his hooks unguarded.

    Early game it's more advantageous to NOT guard hooks , and late game it's more advantageous to closely guard hooks in order to ensure kills.

    There are many different combinations and variations to these playstyles and that is what makes DBD great; the endless possibility. You seem to have a very Hook & Hunt-oriented playstyle that has been working out for you and that's awesome. Discouraging any one playstyle in the community can only DETRACT from the game.

  • Avariku
    Avariku Member Posts: 608
    edited November 2018
    fair enough, I'll give you that. But once again I think that's where some players have an issue. 

    it's the clarification of "what is camping?" that I think gets everyone up-in-arms over it. 

    cause most of what we've discussed, I'm cool with, just don't stand there staring at me with your forehead pressed against mine for 2 minutes... I don't care if I die, I just want to have some fun in the process of dying. lol
  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    @Avariku said:
    fair enough, I'll give you that. But once again I think that's where some players have an issue. 

    it's the clarification of "what is camping?" that I think gets everyone up-in-arms over it. 

    cause most of what we've discussed, I'm cool with, just don't stand there staring at me with your forehead pressed against mine for 2 minutes... I don't care if I die, I just want to have some fun in the process of dying. lol

    That's reasonable. "Face camping" is something I never do. I'll agree with you that it's kind of scummy and not very fun to play against once you get hooked. However, I will always defend any player's right to play the game any way they want to as long as they're following the rules and not abusing glitches. EVEN if the killer decides to facecamp.

  • GT_Legend2
    GT_Legend2 Member Posts: 845
    edited November 2018
    ReneAensland said:

    @Laddy said:

    @Avariku said:
    the only thing I have to say to this is that while I'm about 60/40 as a "killer main" ... Even as a survivor I have NO issue with patrols... hell, that just makes sense...  the problem I have is with killers who decide their first victim has no right to play the game at all for the duration of the round. 

    and yet, the community seems to expect that person should now dangle from the hook for 2 minutes of absolute boredom or completely screw the remaining survivors over. 

    just seems like a bad game mechanic to me.

    I have to respectfully disagree. If a killer makes a hook, he's made a hook. It's up to the survivors to weigh the risk/reward of attempting a hook rescue. If the Killer decides he wants to make the time investment of closely guarding his hook, then that is his choice. However, it leaves the Killer vulnerable because it gives the Survivors a chance to complete objectives without being chased.

    It promotes two main playstyles: Hook Guarding or Hooking and Hunting. One playstyle ensures kills, while the other prevents Survivors from completeing objectives yet leaves the hook vulnerable to a Rescue.

    I'm disagreeing now.
    It's not hook guarding. It's camping.
    Everyone has their opinion, mine is obviously "Any killer that camps, is trash."
    Apparently, Amanda is a low class killer, and I don't camp and get my Merciless.
    If I can do it, you can do it.

    I get mercilesses by camping, though. Don’t see an issue with that. It all depends on the survivors, if they get camped and get themselves outta the game that easily, they probably deserved it. 
    Mans besides, I have fun doing it, and what’s wrong with having fun in a way that doesn’t brake rules?
  • OGlilSPOOK20
    OGlilSPOOK20 Member Posts: 716
    #stopbeingdicks
  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    I see a whole lot of trash talk but nobody who can actually formulate an intelligent rebuttal to my OP.

    At least ReneAensland is capable of a civil discussion.

  • Shadoureon
    Shadoureon Member Posts: 493

    @GT_Legend2 said:
    Shadoureon said:


    * Killers need to stop complaining about looping.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about teabagging.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about genrushing.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about DS.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about BT.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about SC.

    Boi what the hell are you on? I can inderstand something’s, but like DS? Really? The most overpowered perk on the game? Sounds like we got a survivor main who really doesn’t like gettin camped, after teabagging, DStriking and posting ez in chat kinda guy here

    I am indeed a survivor main but I run DS only when levelling a character and dont have choices that are good. I run Self Care, Empathy, Balanced Landing and then Choose Botany Knowledge if I play solo or Well Make It if I play with others.

    Also killers have NOED wich is just as a terrible second chance perk as DS so killers dont really sould complain in the first place. If its up to me they both can be removed I am all up for it.

  • Attackfrog
    Attackfrog Member Posts: 1,134
    Avariku said:
    I guess the biggest difference to me is the ones that stay literally within about 4 meters of the hook the entire time.  that is camping to me. 

    as long as there is some kind of chance that the person could be unhooked and make an escape, then it seems fair. but ensuring they have absolutely no chance of any escape, any chance to play the game, any chance to attain any points whatsoever, then you've essentially making it so they literally can't play a game they paid the same amount as you did for. (not including random sales prices and such)

    also, @Attackfrog, I hope I never see you complain about any survivor tactic or behavior ever or I'll remind you of that pointlessly antagonistic post. 
    Never once have I complained about DS, flashlights, looping, pallet stuns or even teabagging. Those are frustrating and sometimes childish but they are in the game and don't break ToS.

    It's a competitive game and if those things are beating me (or you!), I (or you) need to git gudder to beat them.

    That's why I lol so hard when people get so clearly triggered about "camping" and go on tirades insulting people that do it.

    You'll never hear me tell some to commit suicide or call someone a dirty name for playing the game they want to play it.
  • Cymer
    Cymer Member Posts: 946
    edited November 2018
    Shadoureon said:

    @GT_Legend2 said:
    Shadoureon said:


    * Killers need to stop complaining about looping.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about teabagging.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about genrushing.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about DS.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about BT.
    * Killers need to stop complaining about SC.

    Boi what the hell are you on? I can inderstand something’s, but like DS? Really? The most overpowered perk on the game? Sounds like we got a survivor main who really doesn’t like gettin camped, after teabagging, DStriking and posting ez in chat kinda guy here

    I am indeed a survivor main but I run DS only when levelling a character and dont have choices that are good. I run Self Care, Empathy, Balanced Landing and then Choose Botany Knowledge if I play solo or Well Make It if I play with others.

    Also killers have NOED wich is just as a terrible second chance perk as DS so killers dont really sould complain in the first place. If its up to me they both can be removed I am all up for it.

    Hmm...can a killer do actively something to prevent DS for taking effect...like cleansing 5 totems and getting BP for the task? And DS activate only if all gens are powered? Otherwise you just play the game with 3 perks.
    Can we killer have a perk like deadhard that let us hit a missed attack, if timed right so we can down a survivor, even if he would have escaped?
    Can we also have an item, that let us sap the survivors and blind them, so they can see where to run like some kind of mindblast when aimed right?
  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20

    You guys are getting a bit off-topic.

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    @Laddy said:
    I see a whole lot of trash talk but nobody who can actually formulate an intelligent rebuttal to my OP.

    That is because your OP is quite right, and very accurately formulated. I don't have much to add, just this: don't forget there are a lot of people who just look at your post, and nod, "Yeah that's how it is", and move on.

  • twistedmonkey
    twistedmonkey Member Posts: 4,293

    While some of your points are correct in some ways you have to remember its a game played for fun, games are played in down time and some people may only have 30m a day to play, while legit its certianly not fun for the survivor and as a killer I can tell you its boring and not fun to do.

    Take into account this game is not just about rank, kills, escapes, imo its more about blood points, some do play for those though so I am not discounting them, its just the grind in this game is so emmense and camping rewards you with less blood points and also the one on the hook can get very little, by design its a bad play style to adopt apart from certain circumstances.

    Survivors have to take some of the blame at times by not doing gens and getting out of dodge, more often than not they reward the action, this has landed at a bit of a slight fault on the devs with the emblem system, survivors need benevolent points and if a killer camps well it not only screws over the person on the hook but everyone else, this is one reason why the devs actively are looking at ways to try and stop it from happening.

    Camping as a strat has its place, it is never going away and with everyone standing around the hook why would they leave? they are gifting you the kills, gates are powered again why leave? they are securing their last one, the only time I think to myself its a bit scummy is when there are 5 gens and the killer is standing next to the hook refusing to leave.

  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    @Peanits said:

    Not to undermine your points, but it's still a valid complaint. If you down a guy once and camp him until he's sacrificed, he's not going to have barrels of fun sitting there on the hook. You're absolutely within your rights to do so, but you still have to acknowledge that when all is said and done, you're making the game less fun for them. Sames goes for what is essentially the survivor equivalent; pallet looping. If you play in a way that makes the game less fun for the other side (even if it is within the rules), you can't be surprised if they're not happy about it.

    I will totally disagree about adapting and overcoming, though. There is no way for that hooked survivor to do so. The other survivors can ignore the hook and rush the generators, but that still doesn't change anything for the guy getting camped. He can't just adapt and unhook himself.

    Good points. I can see that for some people who have a more casual approach to the game camping could be annoying, especially at low ranks. However my response to your first point is that, in my opinion, from the way I view the game mechanics, when a survivor is hooked he is essentially eliminated. A hook rescue is skillful and commendable, but nothing more than a risky bonus. The aim of the game as Survivor first and foremost is not to be detected. As for pallet looping, it can be adapted to by the Killer by optimizing his chase routes and anticipating Survivor movements. It's all in the way the game is played.

    As for the second paragraph, my first point holds. When a survivor is hooked he is essentially eliminated. Survivors have no entitlement to a hook rescue. If you get rescued great, if not it's back to the lobby to try again. The player adapts by not being hooked in the first place.

    @twistedmonkey said:
    While some of your points are correct in some ways you have to remember its a game played for fun, games are played in down time and some people may only have 30m a day to play, while legit its certianly not fun for the survivor and as a killer I can tell you its boring and not fun to do.

    Take into account this game is not just about rank, kills, escapes, imo its more about blood points, some do play for those though so I am not discounting them, its just the grind in this game is so emmense and camping rewards you with less blood points and also the one on the hook can get very little, by design its a bad play style to adopt apart from certain circumstances.

    Survivors have to take some of the blame at times by not doing gens and getting out of dodge, more often than not they reward the action, this has landed at a bit of a slight fault on the devs with the emblem system, survivors need benevolent points and if a killer camps well it not only screws over the person on the hook but everyone else, this is one reason why the devs actively are looking at ways to try and stop it from happening.

    Camping as a strat has its place, it is never going away and with everyone standing around the hook why would they leave? they are gifting you the kills, gates are powered again why leave? they are securing their last one, the only time I think to myself its a bit scummy is when there are 5 gens and the killer is standing next to the hook refusing to leave.

    As I've stated earlier in the thread, camping isn't something that's optimal 100% of the time for every killer. For instance, the Trapper benefits from setting traps and leaving his hook to harass nearby generators. Another example is that camping is more beneficial late game than it is early game. With the varied mechanics of every Killer, it is up to the player to figure out the optimal Camp/Hunt ratio at different stages of the game. What bothers me is how Survivors get very hostile and toxic about something that is actually their fault, and worse, this attitude is widely accepted and encouraged. I'm merely attempting to re-balance the community's attitude and remind people of the way the game is meant to be played.

    As for the boring part, I have to disagree with both of you. I think it makes the game more interesting. By encouraging all playstyles, it encourages the full utilization of the depth of game mechanics intended by the devs. Killers Camp or Hunt, and Survivors can be Altruistic or Solitary. It's a constant balancing act between both sides, and the most skillful and tactful side wins.

    Thanks for the good replies.

  • borna_lk
    borna_lk Member Posts: 124
    You have the right logic and you shouldn’t care what survivors say about your play style. But you can’t say your a good killer, becuase I don’t tunnel or camp (rarely patrol) and still manage 4ks with ease. That’s called skill. Camping around a hook just makes good survivors go straight to gens and 2-3 end up escaping a long and boring game with low bloodpoints. Play however you like but don’t try and justify camping as a skill becuase the game allows you to do it. It’s your right to play how you want, but it’s my right to inform you skill requires a bit more movement.
  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    @Peanits said:
    Not to undermine your points, but it's still a valid complaint. If you down a guy once and camp him until he's sacrificed, he's not going to have barrels of fun sitting there on the hook. You're absolutely within your rights to do so, but you still have to acknowledge that when all is said and done, you're making the game less fun for them. Sames goes for what is essentially the survivor equivalent; pallet looping. If you play in a way that makes the game less fun for the other side (even if it is within the rules), you can't be surprised if they're not happy about it.

    I will totally disagree about adapting and overcoming, though. There is no way for that hooked survivor to do so. The other survivors can ignore the hook and rush the generators, but that still doesn't change anything for the guy getting camped. He can't just adapt and unhook himself.

    Good points. I can see how it can be annoying for a casual player, especially at lower ranks. However, the Survivor can adapt and overcome by not being hooked in the first place. The role of the survivor first and foremost is to not be detected. When a Survivor is hooked, he is essentially eliminated. Survivors are not entitled to a hook rescue, it is merely a nice bonus if it can be pulled off. Once you are hooked, if you can be rescued great, if not it's back to the lobby to try again.

    As for the pallet looping, this can also be adapted to by the Killer by being mindful to optimize his chase routes and anticipate Survivor movements.

    @twistedmonkey said:
    While some of your points are correct in some ways you have to remember its a game played for fun, games are played in down time and some people may only have 30m a day to play, while legit its certianly not fun for the survivor and as a killer I can tell you its boring and not fun to do.

    Take into account this game is not just about rank, kills, escapes, imo its more about blood points, some do play for those though so I am not discounting them, its just the grind in this game is so emmense and camping rewards you with less blood points and also the one on the hook can get very little, by design its a bad play style to adopt apart from certain circumstances.

    Survivors have to take some of the blame at times by not doing gens and getting out of dodge, more often than not they reward the action, this has landed at a bit of a slight fault on the devs with the emblem system, survivors need benevolent points and if a killer camps well it not only screws over the person on the hook but everyone else, this is one reason why the devs actively are looking at ways to try and stop it from happening.

    Camping as a strat has its place, it is never going away and with everyone standing around the hook why would they leave? they are gifting you the kills, gates are powered again why leave? they are securing their last one, the only time I think to myself its a bit scummy is when there are 5 gens and the killer is standing next to the hook refusing to leave.

    Earlier in the thread I stated that camping is not optimal for every killer 100% of the time. For example, the Trapper benefits from setting traps and leaving his hook to harass nearby generators. Another example is that camping is more optimal late-game than it is early game. Every killer has different mechanics and it is up to the player to determine the best way to play the game.

    As for the "camping makes the game boring" sentiment, I still wholeheartedly disagree. Both sides, Killer and Survivor, have two different strategy paths they can follow. Killers can Camp or they can Hook & Hunt. Survivors can play Altruistically or they can be Solitary. It is a constant balancing act between both sides of the coin, and the side that plays the most tactfully and skillfully wins. I don't feel that this makes the game boring at all. I think by encouraging all playstyles, it encourages depth and makes the game more interesting.

    The main problem I have is that, instead of adapting, Survivors get very hostile and toxic, and to make matters worse, this attitude is widely accepted and encouraged. I'm merely trying to re-balance the attitude of the community and remind people of the way the game is supposed to be played. Killers are supposed to guard their hook.

  • Laddy
    Laddy Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2018

    @borna_lk said:
    You have the right logic and you shouldn’t care what survivors say about your play style. But you can’t say your a good killer, becuase I don’t tunnel or camp (rarely patrol) and still manage 4ks with ease. That’s called skill. Camping around a hook just makes good survivors go straight to gens and 2-3 end up escaping a long and boring game with low bloodpoints. Play however you like but don’t try and justify camping as a skill becuase the game allows you to do it. It’s your right to play how you want, but it’s my right to inform you skill requires a bit more movement.

    I'm sure you're a good killer, but you're missing the point. By observing how Survivors attempt a hook rescue 100% of the time and capitalizing on this fact, the Killer is being skillful. By observing the Killer guarding the hook and still attempting a predictable hook rescue, the Survivors are being unskillful. It's all in the way the game is played.

    Again, I'm not claiming camping is optimal 100% of the time. I just have a problem with the way the community views it as a scummy act, when really the Killer is just doing what he has to do. A Killer can unskillfully camp by doing it with a Killer that benefits more from a Hook & Hunt playstyle, such as the Trapper.

  • PiiFree
    PiiFree Member Posts: 1,154

    I'm not a fan of AngryPug, even was kinda biased towards him but I randomly watched him yesterday and he made a few very good points.

    In short, Survivors and Killers constantly cry and complain about literally everything but you will NEVER see a good survivor complain, because good survivors know exactly how to deal with stuff like Camping, Tunneling, BBQ, NOED ect.

    The problem is that BAD survivors make camping an efficient tactic, that's why you keep facing campers in Rank 1and that's why they won't stop camping, they never get punished for it. In fact, they can punish survivors while camping, which makes it even funnier.

    It might be frustrating to deal with it - that's for sure - but you have to adapt and improve, find a way to deal with it.

  • Dwight_Fairfield
    Dwight_Fairfield Member Posts: 7,019
    Best way to deal with a camper is punish them by gen rushing them. 

    On a side note, it must make for a thrilling game for the camper spending most of the match watching a hooked survivor slowly die. 
  • DarkWo1f997
    DarkWo1f997 Member Posts: 1,532
    I think what everyone is trying to say here, is that because camping a survivor makes the experience so annoyingly tedious for them, it’s more of a common courtesy to allow their teammates a window to unhook them. Just as it’s a common courtesy to let a killer you smacked high five everyone at the exit. 
  • MegaWaffle
    MegaWaffle Member Posts: 4,172

    @ReneAensland said:

    @Laddy said:

    @ReneAensland said:
    You can try to justify your camping all you want but,
    If you camp, you're [BAD WORD] trash.

    Exactly the type of snarky attitude that most survivors have. Nothing you said was a constructive rebuttal of my OP. Deep down you know I'm right.

    I'm not a survivor.

    I. Am. Not. A. Survivor.
    I'm a killer, I'm a casual survivor.

    I'm a Killer main.

    You forgot this.

  • friendlykillermain
    friendlykillermain Member Posts: 3,162

    @MegaWaffle said:

    @ReneAensland said:

    @Laddy said:

    @ReneAensland said:
    You can try to justify your camping all you want but,
    If you camp, you're [BAD WORD] trash.

    Exactly the type of snarky attitude that most survivors have. Nothing you said was a constructive rebuttal of my OP. Deep down you know I'm right.

    I'm not a survivor.

    I. Am. Not. A. Survivor.
    I'm a killer, I'm a casual survivor.

    I'm a Killer main.

    You forgot this.

    yeah you cant main both you know

  • MegaWaffle
    MegaWaffle Member Posts: 4,172

    @friendlykillermain said:

    @MegaWaffle said:

    @ReneAensland said:

    @Laddy said:

    @ReneAensland said:
    You can try to justify your camping all you want but,
    If you camp, you're [BAD WORD] trash.

    Exactly the type of snarky attitude that most survivors have. Nothing you said was a constructive rebuttal of my OP. Deep down you know I'm right.

    I'm not a survivor.

    I. Am. Not. A. Survivor.
    I'm a killer, I'm a casual survivor.

    I'm a Killer main.

    You forgot this.

    yeah you cant main both you know

    Nah I just like to "poke the bear" when it comes to people trying to use "main" as a way to somehow validate their side of the argument. I also just like the picture.