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How I'd Buff Sadako:
- No slowdown while manifesting/demanifesting.
- TVs turn back on 30s after being used. if turned off by a survivor, they come back 60s later.
- Condemned could be made more of a threat by: A) having a level of condemned be inflicted if hit by an attack after manifesting (while sadako still flickers) or B) Tapes only remove 2 bars of condemned.
- Teleporting to TV's should give no global queue period. This increases her mind game potential and skill ceiling.
- Remove the lullaby while Demanifested. It makes no sense and defeats the entire point of being Undetectable.
- Significantly increase the duration of phasing after manifesting and significantly increase the time she disappears to give more mind game potential.
- I'd also add some small passive Condemn gain that just builds over time. Survivors need to waste time clearing it. - Tapes would remove 3 bars instead of 2 again if this was implemented.
- For more lethality: Allow her to walk through pallets while Demanifested/Fully condemned survivors are exposed/demanifesting applies hindered to nearby actors for (condemned level) seconds. (possibly all as addons)
Comments
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It's too late, she's gone the way of the Twins. Just delete her since they'll soon release Sadako Plus Ultra in the next chapter.
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I think there's still hope (for both of them, actually - and freddy, too), and she's still fun to play as, these are just ways to further improve her.
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Make the TVs return much faster if Sadako uses them.
Let Sadako manually trigger flickers while demanifested, and also make them last longer.
Make Condemned passively build up while out of chase, and build up even faster if within range of a TV. Survivors might actually have to interact with her power then.
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You mean "the cooler sadako" 😎
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- I agree no slowdown on Manifest/Demanifest. You don't get a speed boost or anything so I don't see why there's a slow down, it's not good enough to warrant it.
- Agree.
- Agree.
- I'd also add some small passive Condemn gain that just builds over time. Survivors need to waste time clearing it.
- Teleporting to TV's should give no global queue period. This increases her mind game potential and skill ceiling.
- Remove the lullaby while Demanifested. It makes no sense and defeats the entire point of being Undetectable.
- Significantly increase the duration of phasing after manifesting and significantly increase the time she disappears to give more mind game potential.
- Optional. Allow her to walk through pallets while Demanifested.
4 -
Agree with all of those.
I was actually planning to add a bunch of those to the list, but I got busy and just posted the list I had at the time.
Mind if I add those on?
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Go for it.
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expose status on full condemn the put in a tape mid chase is dumb
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Condemned is weak and I have no idea how to rework that without making it weaker or more OP so I'm just not going to address it.
Sadako, on the other hand, I think having no slowdown on manifest/demanifest might be too strong so I'd rather see her Telephone add-on made basekit. Telephone inflicts hindered upon survivors for 3 seconds after witnessing a manifestation.
I'd rather see Sadako be stronger in chase than make her a sort-of stealth killer.
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for sure.
I've thought for a long time that that should be basekit, but should last (condemned) seconds.
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- Would be way to strong in loops. I know many people are saying she has no anti loop but she has a slow down on because she actually does have anti loop.
- Agreed. Survivors have too much control over her mobility. Too much mobility combined with any buffed Condemed mechanic would be too strong, but I'd rather take the better mobility and rework condemned instead.
- A mori at no hooks is never going to be balanced. If M1s or passive condemned is given to her, they would need to make the mechanic take longer, or treat it like PH and only allow a kill on death hook while giving it other effects before death hook. It's a mess, but anything is better than what we have now.
- Again for balance reasons she needs to have a global sound queue. This is even more true if BHVR decides to reduce her TV cooldown. The directional sound when near a TV can go. I understand BHVR's reluctance on making killers to strong, but this one is a bit much. I know she is scary when projecting, given the speed boost and undetectable for a short duration, but it's just too damn obvious where she is coming from. Also it's very disorienting for the killer.
- This one is tricky. The lullaby is a great throw back to Ringu, the sound effect is amazing, but it is strange for a stealth killer to have one especially since she is visible at 24m. I find most survivors working on gens can't notice the lullaby over the gen sound, which is where stealth killers excel at, catching people out of place on gens, but in any other situation the lullaby is out of place. It is very quiet though, when I vs Sadako I can barely hear it.
- Similar to 1, way to OP. Unlike Spirit, I think?, you can tell when you phase out on Sadako. You can use this to your advantage for mind games. Increasing this would lead to survivors having nothing to deal with her outside of a lucky guess and early pallet drop; very similar to the Spirit and we know how much survivors complained about that one.
- Its a mess to balance.
- This is a crazy one, I wouldn't even know where to begin. Reminds me of Nurse and we really don't need another killer like her. Would need some very serious balancing to ever work.
I'd add in survivors being able to interact with TVs in chase as a problem. Nothing is more sad than chasing a survivor fully condemned and watch them interact with a TV MID CHASE and lose stacks. Not even remotely scary.🙄
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These are the things I'd like to see. Doesn't address everything but it would be a good base to adjust from imo:
- Holding a tape gives the survivor Exposed in addition to building Condemned. Gives an added amount of risk for removing teleport options.
- Increase the amount of time it takes to put in a tape. Should be just enough to make it much more dangerous to drop your tape mid chase.
- Add status effects as Condemned builds: gaining effects at 2, 4, and 6. Maybe Blinded, Oblivious, and Hindered.
- Condemned builds stacks on survivors while they are near a powered TV. Shouldn't be super fast, much slower than holding a tape. But enough to force a choice between two rough options.
- If all of that is too rough for survivors, I'd even swap the Mori for being able to see their aura or something along those lines, I dunno.
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One: No. Mori without having to hook AND exposed? That's just Tombstone with extra steps, and we really don't need another tombstone situation.
Two: Not really sure on this one tbh. Outside of either extremely ballsy survivors or really good survivors, nobody really does this. Seems unnecessary.
Three: That's overkill, and oblivious is useless for Sadako.
Four: I agree with this one. This one actually makes the most sense and would pair wonderfully with basekit Telephone which applies hindered for 3 seconds to survivors who witness a manifestation.
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One: It's entirely on them though. Unlike Tombstone Myers, they have most of the control over that situation. Get your tape and drop your Condemned stacks before it gets that bad. That's the point is to encourage survivors to be running tapes more often before it gets to the point where you can basically be one shot. Like I said at the end, if it's too much, lose the mori and replace it with something not quite as game ending. Pulling tapes should have consequences though and just some extra stacks of Condemned is obviously not enough.
Two: I see it fairly often and there are enough complaints about it that it seems to be an issue. Definitely more flexible on this one though.
Three: Again, the idea is to make Condemned mean something. Drop Oblivious and divide it as 3 and 5 stacks, or throw something else in there. I want survivors deciding to remove stacks earlier rather than wait till they have 6 stacks and then doing a tape run while the killer is distracted or at least have to think about what is the best strat for the situation.
I feel like Sadako's play style should be piling up the workload of survivors - forcing them to make a lot of decisions on when to heal, when to run tapes, when to work gens, when to pick up teammates. I don't care about the Mori. I just don't want another anti-loop killer, or just another "stealth" killer. I want something unique or at least outside the box a bit.
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Condemned already has basekit Mori and killer instinct, adding exposed ontop of that would be really unfair. Which is why the mori should be death hook only. Same as Final Judgement. That solves the problem of the mori and opens up condemned to changes.
If the idea is to make survivors want to get rid of their tapes, then tier 1 condemned should apply Exhausted for 15 Seconds, Tier 3 should apply Hindered for 15 seconds, and Tier 5 should increase the amount of time it takes to insert the tape.
I have no idea what the base amount of time is, so just going to assume it's normally 3 - 5 seconds, in which case you could extend it to maybe 10 seconds.
Oblivious used to be good against BT, but that got changed ages ago and oblivious is always pointless on a killer with a lullaby or stealth power. Blindness is a joke. Just look at poor Hex: The Third Seal. Survivors will ignore it for the entire game.
Exhausted and Hindered, though? Those are the game changers given how much survivors rely upon their exhaustion perks and, you know, holding W.
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I would love a lot of these changes, especially the reduced TV cool-down. It’s way too long currently compared to the other teleporting killers.
The only concern I have with this is that having a killer that can become Undetectable without any slowdown or proximity sounds and has good mobility might make Wraith obsolete.
1 -
Again, if they let it get that bad, that's on them. I'm totally good with putting the mori only on death hook (or replacing it entirely). The exposed would only be for carrying a tape, not a full stack of Condemned.
To retrieve or insert a tape is 2 seconds. I do like Exhausted and Hindered much better. For 15 seconds only though is kind of pointless. That's pretty much over by the time you get to them if they have someone killing televisions or are doing it themselves, which is part of why I want to make it much more dangerous to have someone just running around shutting down TVs...and that's assuming the killer knows they've hit those level of stacks and knows where the survivor is.
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Oh if it's only for carrying a tape and not full stack of condemned then I'm totally fine with that. 15 seconds is probably too short for exhausted and hindered, could be increased to 30. I just wanted to throw out a number to test the waters.
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Sadako does not need a damn buff. She needs a nerf. Respectfully.
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That's an...interesting take. What exactly do you think is too strong about her and how many Sadakos do you guesstimate you've faced?
I've really only seen one playstyle that is arguably too strong and imo, toxic on her.
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I would just make it where survivors are unable to see condemed bar. It would be really thrilling and fun. It would also make survivors grab tapes in fear of being condemed.
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If mori was on death hooks, we could change effects/rate of condemned. Some status effects would be pointless: oblivious, blindness. Some would be too OP like exposed. What if the survivor fully condemned can only see a demanifested Sadako at 8m or even 6m instead of 24m?
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that could be really cool.
something like "you can see sadako while she's demanifested at 6 fewer meters per condemned stack".
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EVERYTHING! Her abilities, and her speed mostly though. She's the only killer I can't loop or escape from. My friends and I are pretty good survivors too so the fact that we get killed within the first 10 minutes of going against her is a bit ridiculous but I guess it makes sense since she is a powerful evil spirit afterall. But if thats the case they should buff The Spirit too then.
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what?
Onryo has easily the weakest antiloop in the game.
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The new Turkey Bone killer cannot walk through bodyblocking survivors. Don't delete Sadako.
In fact, let her climb through windows while demanifested at any time rather than wait for survivors to finish vaulting first. This would make her uniquely better at catching up through window loops compared to other M1 killers. It would also give the perk Fire Up some synergy with more killers than just The Shape.
Post edited by Nos37 on2 -
I like the condemn with hits would be good, and i don't think it need to be after manifesting only, 7 stacks is a lot. and in most game i play against onryo, even with better players than have won against me at the end, i never passed the 4 stacks, i have only seen that against players that took the video tape, and didn't end their condemn for some reason i don't understand, so i don't see how it would be broken if the onryo's hits applies condemn, most of the time even ignoring the condemn survivors would moriable on dead hook anyway
i would like that survivors need their target tv to be turn on to get rid of their condemn, that way one could be able to stop them, and not having them end their condemn mid chase, also if they could only see the tv location while it is turn on, even better
Also the phase trough pallets is really good, but because while de manifested the onryo have no collision it needs to block the pallet for 5 seconds to not the survivor and the onryo moving through the pallet back and forward, so even thought that would be funny, it would make the phase through useless.
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You shoot down all the buffs they mentioned, and praise the one suggestion that removes her mori??
This isn't a nerf thread 😔
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Point number 5 was "if it's too much for survivors, I'd even swap the mori for revealing their aura or something".
The point I praised and agreed with was "Condemned builds stacks on survivors while they are near a powered TV."
Sadako needs to keep her mori, but if it gets moved to death hook then condemned can get some meaningful buffs.
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