Would Oni be to strong if
Would Oni be to strong if he started the game with his power? Onis biggest weakness is the early game cause he can be looped and gen rushed before he even gets his power.
Would making him start the game with his power make him better or it’s unnecessary?
If they were it should be were he starts the game with his power but when he picks up he loses his power completely. But then when he uses it again and he picks up he functions like normal.
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Lethal pursuer would be an almost guaranteed
But I wouldn't mind if they made it so the power fills a very tiny bit more then it does rn
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Yes, yes it would.
I'd prefer if he started the game with it like 20% charged or something.
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Yes it would be op.
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Yes that would be overpowered
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Nah it wouldn’t be op. It would actually make him viable. But i’d say make it an iri first and see how it goes. One QOL change he needs is for his power to ACTUALLY fill to full without having to have to absorb an orb to reach his power like….what the hell 😂😭🙄🤦🏻♀️
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Well here’s the deal I got my ass kicked as Oni cause of not having his power to start. ######### all of this he really should start with his power he has other counters even when In his power.
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I'd be ok with this if he didn't essentially constantly get his power back for the rest of the match after applying the slightest amount of pressure.
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Surprised how many people think that would be OP, I mean calling it a free down at start? Seriously? That’s just ridiculous. It’s not like you get a global queue telling you he’s activated his power as a heads up..or to actually have eyes and see him rushing at you..or the fact that literally every single pallet is still up..or simply that he’s actually quite loopable even with his power up if you’re a good player. Yeah, he’d be fine with his power at start..so would almost every killer for that matter.
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Blood Fury is one of the strongest powers in the game. I would genuinely argue that Blood Fury is stronger than Blighted Corruption, Yamaoka's Haunting, and even Spencer's Last Breath when you use it correctly.
Blood Fury is counterbalanced by the fact that it is not available all the time, and especially not at the start of the game. As a survivor team, you're able to build pressure and keep it by denying the Oni is power, and the second he gets his power is when the game begins to shift (if the Oni is good). Giving Blood Fury at the beginning of the game would completely flip this balance onto it's head and leave survivors scrambling to build momentum and stop the snowball after they've spawned in.
Against a coordinated SWF who play the game well? I could see this working.
Against solo queue? Oh absolutely the ######### not.
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Would it be too strong to take away the only downside to his obscenely strong power?
Yes.
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Oni is already a pretty strong killer, he doesn't need to be buffed in any shape or form. You're asking the equivalent of should huntress be able to get more hatchets without reloading at a locker. I get that you can feel powerless if good survivors play safe but he only needs 1 good use out of his power and can bring back the game.
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Lethal Pursuer exists, so yes it would be too strong.
Without Lethal I think it would be fine imo
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Exactly what I was thinking.
For me he is already annoying enough to go against, not because I feel he is OP, but because half of the match involves trying to rush a gen because of his snowball potential.
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No, not really into possibly.
It could give a early down, but then again other killers can do the same.
If say it'd be cool if it were a iri.
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"it would actually make him viable"
Only time Oni was even close to not being viable was when they reduced how far you could flick during a dash, which lasted like a few weeks
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That would instantly make Kazan S tier,his biggest weakness is that he starts as a basic M1 killer with no power at all which makes him the worst killer in the early game,survivors will predrop pallets and play safe because they know that if he get a hit early into the game he can snowball so fast.
Blood Fury is arguably the second strongest power in the game next to Nurse's Spencer Last breath.
Oni is A tier beceause he can't always use his power and he needs to work for it,but once you have Blood Fury ready he becomes a slugging machine and good Onis will literally down 3 survivors in few seconds.
Lethal Pursuer + Monitor and Abuse + Infectious Fright and double durations add-ons would be the best combo for him to end games fast and get huge pressure in the early game he might be better than Blight if what you suggested goes live or they make it an Iridescent add-on.
He would be the second best killer in the game next to Nurse,Oni is already a viable killer he's a 4k machine in Comp DBD even if survivors predrop he's gonna get that hit sooner or later.
Watch swish's recent tournament Oni was one of the best killers in that tournament all games were 4k or 3k now imagine if he had his power at the start of the game.
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I think that it would give Oni too much early game pressure considering how his whole game loop is centered around building up enough blood orbs on the map to give himself perpetual power uptime. The second you have 2-3 power activations worth of blood orbs lying around you can pretty much slug everyone out and have a guaranteed win. This endgame condition is offset by the time it takes to start getting downs and hits in the early game, and your ability to pressure survivors and keep them from being healed by healthy survivors.
Just putting Oni next to the survivors so he could start chasing right off the bat would be op in my opinion, and giving Oni his power is letting him get in chase instantly at best, and giving him multiple downs instantly at worst.
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yeah he's really loopable in his ability. it feels wrong. it shouldn't be possible to 1vs1 his ability. only stall it. just another one of those dbd balances around bad survivor things.
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If nurse can have her power at start why oni can't they can change that is not as long and they could change that survivors would not spawn together so then at least oni would probably get only one down with it or two in best case scenario. But it would mean oni would get his power lot sooner back as those survivors would be then injured when they are rescued. Artist is ranked better killer than oni that needs to change and oni should S tier we need more killers than just blight and nurse who are strong. Oni is most fun to play agains't of these two and more fair.
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To the average player? Yes. To someone with high mmr? No. Not even close.
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Because nurse's power is mobility + downside (fatigue) and not mobility + instadown + literally no downside???
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It would be OP, but it would also be great for speedruns.
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Oni is insanely strong in his power. Having that right from the get go, which also should allow him to make sure he will not run out of blood the rest of the match, is too strong. He'll just activate his power once he finds a survivor, and the likeliness of the survivor surviving that is very low.
He does have counterplay in his power, no doubt, he is still loopable to a certain extent, but the odds during chases are definitely in Onis favor, and he only needs one hit, because he insta downs survivors. Having that right from the get go would be too powerful in my opinion, and I am glad to see that most people on these forums here seem to agree. Oni is already A tier.
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Oni can be looped even in his power but nurse can't so there would be downside. Good nurse downs you in 10s so oni would still not be anywhere close to that power.
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Nurse is should not be standart for balancing killers. She has some terrible add-ons but she has high learning curve. She is strongest killer for a reason.
We should not buff killers to her level. Oni is alright.
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I guess that's the base problem, you're fine with A tier, I'm not.
All I care about is viable and not viable, with viable meaning against an equally skilled top tier SWF group you have a fair chance at winning without just hard tunneling/noed plays. You cannot be a killer that relies on survivor mistakes to win. A tier in DBD does not fit viable by those standards, S tier does. S tier is the balanced tier aka viable and of which all killers should be balanced to.
Anything A tier and below needs varying degrees of buffs in my opinion.
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Oni has bad maps and can struggle if survivors play safe but having him start with his power fully charged is way too much.
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So you are saying all killers should be on Nurse & Blight's level. Sure. But what about casual players? On low ranks, there is already killer domination.
So how you will balance them? Because clearly if we makes all killers S-tier, survivors will be stomped every game. Killers will be god even against god survivors.
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Yeah, the only thing that makes Oni's power slightly less good than Blight's is the fact you cant use it the first minute of the game, because once you get it you are pretty much guaranteed to have it nonstop as long as you manage to down someone with each meter.
Between blood orbs from injured people, hooked people, meter refill after hits and passive gain once you have it, you will always refill it fast as long as you down someone with the charge.
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In other words, solo queue players and anyone who isn’t playing in a top tier SEF with the strongest perks, addons, and map offerings can go screw themselves?
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"But what about casual players? On low ranks, there is already killer domination."
They learn, improve, and get better at the game like every other game in existence. This game coddles low level players to a ridiculous degree that most games do not. As much as we may or may not want this game to be casual we now have an MMR system. MMR systems do not go in casual games so this is not a casual game. As you balance for high level play all you do is have the low level players losing a few more games until their invisible MMR number lowers until it's at a degree to where they are now winning/losing exactly as much as they were before. They also already have bot matches coming for new player practice.
"So how you will balance them? Because clearly if we makes all killers S-tier, survivors will be stomped every game. Killers will be god even against god survivors."
Most killer designs need higher skill caps in order to reach that potential. IE to be hyperbolic for an example, we wouldn't just raise a killers speed by 5% to make them S tier, that isn't requiring any skill, but if you added a Defeaned effect on Deep Wounds now skilled Legions have mind game potential to fake running off with FF but instead doubling back on survivors who thought they were safe while hiding LoS. One of these buffs only gives power to skilled players and one gives it to all. This "buffs" them for high skill players but not as much for low ones who can't utilize that buff.
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No. You can play solo queue without any of that, run perkless and still be the power role against S tier killers if you learn to play well.
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Yeahhhhhhh, no.
I am not against buffing weak killers. But you can not buff them to Nurse level. There is problems;
- Nurse and Blight are S-tier killer for a reason. Both killers needs high skills. Casual killers can not use them very well, you need to pratice and learn.
- Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.
- Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.
- Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues. You need 4 survivor for match. If you make game pain for survivors, less people will play surv. I'd leave game if all killers became to Nurse level and i am not even surv main.
- Tunnel and camp are strong strategies. Even Nurse and Blights are tunnelling when they want. So this strategies would be worse.
- Solo survivors have not enough information like SWF teams. You would destroy Solo-q exp, it is already so bad atm.
We need better balance. But balancing game around Nurse is not healthy for sure.
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Oni would be OP if he started with his power. Im an oni main and yeah some games i lose 3 gens by the time i get my power but oni is a comeback king. Oni relys heavily on momentum. Get 1 or 2 downs with ur power, pick up, hook, go get ur power again immediately. Rinse repeat. Honestly devs could change his iri addon to give him his power at the beginning of the game and see how that goes.
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Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers.
Not really. The people that enjoy blight or nurse will still play blight and nurse. Its more that people that main those killers will be rewarded more for mastering those other killers. It just means that at higher MMR for survivor, you get more killer variety because instead of facing nurse/blight 24/7, you face nurse blight and like... let's say Otz maining trapper if trapper was viable.
If Oni was made viable for higher MMR, you'd be facing nurse/blight/Oni and well... people would be calling Oni S-tier which he has a lot of potential to be strong killer.
Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors.
By that logic, Nurse and Blight are unfun for casual survivors and yet the game functions fine with them being as strong as they are. Casual survivors are suppose to lose to more experienced killer players just like lesser experienced killers are suppose to lose to survivor that loop well and are efficient at the objective if they play nurse/blight badly.
Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues.
In the very near future, The role that lacks players will be receiving bonus bloodpoints. I highly suspect that Killer-role will constantly have +100% BP for shortage of killers. that's my speculation. If this turns out to be true, than maybe we need more killers and less survivors anyway at that point.
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As fun as that would be to instantly start with your power that would be pretty busted the game could end in probably 30 seconds
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I tend to agree with everything you said here.
There is even an argument to be made about some killers' powers not being made for high skill ceilings. Like, they would literally have to completely re-design said killer's powers in order for them to to actually be harder for them to be learned.
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Oni is all about snowball pressure. So giving him a freebie would basically make him way stronger than he already is. Which is pretty damn strong. Whenever you get the first hit you start to build up to your power pretty quick anyways. Oni is pretty much as good as hes going to get for balance in his current state.
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"Nurse and Blight are S-tier killer for a reason. Both killers needs high skills. Casual killers can not use them very well, you need to pratice and learn."
That's exactly why they're good design. You said it yourself, the killers win a lot more at lower levels hence why that higher skill cap is a good thing. Don't get me wrong though, just because I'm okay with killers being at S tier doesn't mean I think Nurse is perfect, I'd personally make changes to Nurse.
"Wraith, Legion, Trapper etc are easy to learn killers. If you bring them to S-tier, people will play easy killers. Easy killers should not have strong powers."
That's why you design around simple base powers to pick up that have higher nuances to reach their utmost potential. IE easy to pick up, harder to master, the master part being what actually brings them to S tier. Simplifying it down to "easy killers having strong powers" is not what I'm saying, at all.
"Like i said, killers are already op against low tier survivors. Everyone are not playing this game for long days. People are playing this game after work, school for couple games. You can not expect from casuals to be good players. They have not time to pratice those things. They will just leave game, if game stops being fun. Your suggestion is making game unfun for casual survivors."
They're not op when it's because of playing bad. "Op" is based on objectivity, IE people not making lots of mistakes. I better statement would be that lower level survivors struggle, that would be a fair statement. However, that's how almost all games work, newer/casual players do really bad because they don't know what they're doing. I feel like the direction you're wanting the game in is the "everybody gets a trophy" type of philosophy that really isn't healthy. I don't walk into a new game or play super casually and expect to win a lot, that wouldn't make any sense to me. I would be bad at the game and would expect to lose quite a lot unless I wanted to put the time in improving, it gives me something to strive for. As I mentioned before they're also bringing bot matches into the game to give a better learning and transition experience. I'd personally also have newer players/lower hour players be put into queues with also newer/lower hour players for a limited time to ease those players in.
"Killers have long queues when BHVR releasing new chapters. And imagine if all killers be Nurse level, more people will play killer. Less people will play surv. And plus people will leave game if they can not enjoy with surv. Result = Really long killer queues. You need 4 survivor for match. If you make game pain for survivors, less people will play surv. I'd leave game if all killers became to Nurse level and i am not even surv main."
No. You're ignoring how much higher skill they would require. You're acting like a new "Nurse" comes out and then everyones just playing at a god tier Nurse level suddenly and trashing everyone. That isn't reality. To be an "S tier" killer would mean having perfected their potential, meaning lots of practice and working out their nuances, not simply a killer that moves at 130% movespeed and now gets lots of free easy downs. I went over this before. When I say S tier I don't mean pick up and play S tier, the average player wouldn't be able to play them well enough to be a realistic S tier killer, IE what we currently see with Nurse. Most Nurse players aren't an S tier Nurse.
"Tunnel and camp are strong strategies. Even Nurse and Blights are tunnelling when they want. So this strategies would be worse."
This is a mute point and irrelevant. These things are being changed in an upcoming patch and if these killer changes were actually done I'd make changes to the base game to prevent these things as well. We're not working in a vacuum, other changes get made.
"Solo survivors have not enough information like SWF teams. You would destroy Solo-q exp, it is already so bad atm."
The average killer doesn't play Nurse or Blight at an S tier level so the average killer would not be utilizing those killers to such an oppressive level like you're imagining. Solo queue is fine btw, I do primarily solo queue and I'm still the power role on survivor by far. The real issues are camping and tunneling that wreck solo queue but as I said before I'd make changes to that as well if most killers were actually strong. Solo queue's also being harmed by the MMR system since it doesn't reward them (ranking up and then improving their teammate quality) properly when they play well since all that matters is if they survived which is less likely with lower quality teammates. This wasn't an issue in the old system.
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Oh yeah it would 100% be OP
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Yes it would be. I will admit if this was a pink addon I think it would be cool to see
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I think they should first make it an iri and give it the downside of not being able to insta down survivors for the first time he uses his power ( would be at the start of the game ) and he’d still be able to pressure tho cause of his speed XD idk what’s up with people saying he’d be “ op “ or whatever
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@Blueberry couldn’t quote for some reason but i totally agree.
so sad what happened to spirit, i wish she at least got a worthy iri that like for example ( removes the whoosh inside the TR only ) instead of that joke of an iri ( the cup add-on ) like wth?!
and there would be a downside to balance it out just like MDR
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Yeah I used to love Spirit (as and against for that matter) but they completely neutered her.
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Same but i still main her, that’s how much i love her lmao, i lowered my mmr to have fun ( i don’t bully those below me in skill but i just couldn’t take how much survivors get info on me while i’m phasing AND exactly which direction i’m coming from easily whereas i have to go blind AND have to be 4-0 meters to hear their breathing and walking footsteps and they run that busted perk IW with no downside )
And before anyone says i’m just not good “enough “ i’ve been maining her the day she was released and have seen her all that she went through from bugs to actual nerfs
current spirit just can’t keep up with high mmr survivors not unless she runs two add-ons every game ( the cheery blossom or the amulet )
i see comments saying “ Spirit can even go without Add-ons AND perks and do well “
wait what….? 🤦🏻♀️
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Yeah she's no longer comp or top tier swf viable. You get so much info on her now she's literally pallet loopable. The only thing she has going for her is speed and trying to move faster than they can react which basically leaves her speed add on reliant.
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Yep
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And also the “ Furin “ add-on surprisingly remove the directional whoosh if the survivors or survivor has the “ oblivious status effect “ which is annoying tbh
the furin needs to be omnidirectional at least without any condition
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