How WOULD Nurse be changed?
Putting personal biases aside, if Nurse was to get nerfed/changed in some way, what would even be the best way to go about it? Feels like most suggested changes I've seen just wouldn't work.
I know many say that they should make her blink attacks special attacks instead of M1s, which certainly would dial some things back, but ultimately would barely leave a dent in competent Nurses who can function just fine without them, at worst maybe adding an extra minute or two to their games. This is of course disregarding other concerns people have with this (namely how this would impact perks that aren't related to the Exposed status effect, the intended reason for this suggestion).
I've even pondered about it myself before. I'm sure someone else has had a similar idea, but I've thought of reworking her so she'd have a power similar to Oni, collecting survivors' "breath" to charge her blinks. My main concern with such an idea though is Nurse would have to be a 115 killer to compensate, otherwise obtaining that power would be nigh impossible, which might make her even stronger than current.
I'm curious as to what others have thought of. What sort of changes would impact Nurse to make her less oppressive while keeping her a relatively strong killer instead of nerfing her into the ground?
Comments
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Tuning down her add-ons would be a good start.
Idk about her power. It goes against the game's formula and it would be hard to change it without annoying the nurse mains who want to keep her "unique-ness".
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Change nearly all of her addons. Range and 3 blinks can go in the trash can, recharge should get nerfed, and almost everything else should be buffed/reworked to not be meme status (but still not super strong) so she would actually have addon variety.
In addition to the special attack thing, I’ve also considered the idea of her not being able to see auras while blinking but I’m not 100% sure about that.
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You summed up most of the short sightedness of previous suggestions. The reality is there is not as many OP god nurses running around as everyone likes to claim, and BHVR is not going to ruin the design of one of the few killers with a high skill ceiling, no matter how many people try to brand that as poor character design. Many competitive games have characters like Nurse. That are designed to operate differently, be hard to pilot, but prove very strong once mastered.
She has two addons that need to be nerfed if maps become smaller - otherwise there are no reasonable suggestions out there to rework her. It's mostly low-IQ shitstorming from people who refuse to learn how to play against her.
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I would agree with all of this. Any compensation for these changes would be fine by me.
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I would maybe start at making her blinks a “Special Power.” The fact that her blinks get away with being a “basic attack”, is insane. So I agree.
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Doesn't nurses power recharge during her fatigue? Why not make it so that it doesn't do that anymore?
Would that be bad?
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Jump into a custom match with a friend on mother's dwelling, have him start 20 meters ahead and run on a straight line after you blink into the ground and fatigue. See how long it takes you to catch him and let us know 🤣
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Point taken. Back to the drawing board!!!
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Blink hits should be counted as a special attack and her blink range add-ons need to be changed. Other than that maybe make it so she can't lunge on follow-up blinks? I'm not too sure what else you could really change to make Nurse less oppressive.
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Aside from a few tweaks, feels like this is the general conclusion I run into. Nurse just feels so rooted into the game at this point that trying to make certain changes to her base kit, short of a complete rework a la Freddy, more often than not would hurt her to a point she's unplayable.
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Yes and I wouldn't take that away either. Base recharge is fine as it is imo
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I don't want Nurse to end up getting nerfed into unviability. Don't get me wrong, she does need nerfs very badly, she's just too strong, but she's also very high skill ceiling and one of the few very powerful killers in the game, and I'd like to see her stay that way, just in a more fair manner.
Honestly you can't really drastically change her because she's one of those characters who is either extremely strong or terrible depending on how they're balanced. (look at release Legion for example)
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Nurse needs an Add-On Pass that dials her best Add-Ons back and buffs her weaker ones to be usable but not OP, or make them all side-grades, like Plagues "new-ish" meme Add-On
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Change most of her addons and maybe change the attack after blinking into a special attack.
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Tbh I wouldnt mind either way as long shes not very hard as it says in the game. The devs probably will rework her if they see many players voting for reworking her. Otherwise they mostly might change her add ons to buff her little more. Fatigues is a bit annoying. But the part that I hate the most is that shes very slow on chasing survivors without using her blinks.
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I see people suggesting this all the time...
No one ever mentions that it would lock her out of using a huge number of perks that rely on basic attacks.
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That's the point? If you were going to nerf her with no touching on her main power, which is what most people would prefer, then you have no choice but to go after addons and perk synergy, and her ability to use ranged addons + take advantage of some perk combinations only she can really use/abuse.
Personally I think a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about having nothing to suggest that doesn't end with her not being totally worthless, hence the one new Nurse thread per day thing.
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Any attacks made within 1s of her Blink should be classed as special attacks, similar to Blight, and her really oppressive expose builds won't be as powerful.
That really would make a big difference. It would mean she would have to score two hits for every healthy survivor, which should not be hard considering she can ignore all obstacles, but it would prevent rapid instadown slugfests from Devour or NOED, that can't be avoided because she ignores all obstacles.
If they can't do that, then she could do with (slightly) more fatigue for missed hits so she's blinking less frequently, or (slightly) slower blink speeds, so survivors have more chance to feign movements and dodge her blinks. But both of these would make her much harder for low-skill nurses, widening the skill gap even further. So the special attack thing is much more preferable, it lowers the ceiling instead of raising the floor.
That's the point. She then falls into line with every other non M1 killer, of which she most certainly is not one of. She is in no way comparable to the likes of Trapper, Clown, Doctor, etc. She's far more in line with rapid movement loop denying killers like Blight, Legion, Demo, etc.
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I can almost all but guarantee you that they'd never restrict a killer's access to perks like that.
I'd be interested to see a Dev's opinion if someone asks them here/in a Q&A.
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You mean like Blight, Demo, Pyramid, Nemesis, Huntress, Trickster, Deathslinger, Legion, Billy, Bubba, etc.? All killers with special attacks that don't proc perks that rely on basic attacks, or exposed status.
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Yeah - all those killers that can still use their M1's in an effective manner with or without those perks because they can win chases/get hits with their movement speed alone, while the Blink is effectively Nurse's ONLY method of obtaining damage due to her low m/s?
I 100% you know this.
Please try to respond in good faith.
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You realise that Nurse has a functionally different attack immediately coming out of a blink right?
Different speed, different hitbox, different animation.
That is the attack that should be classed as a special attack.
If you wait a second and then attack after the blink, before the fatigue hits, it's a regular M1 attack, and those attacks are still perfectly reasonable hits that land all the time. But there's at least a chance of dodging them with a DH or a 360. The blink-attack, where you hit M1 as you're blinking, virtually undodgable, unless the nurse messes up the blink or you pre-empt a DH while she's blinking.
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In all honesty, no, I didn't.
Can you link me to something that demonstrates/explains it?
I'll definitely read up on it/watch it.
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It becomes a M1 Killer that gets fatigue after hitting an enemy and wears a clown mask. Cannot longer blink and the weapon is clearly cheap plastic.
Survivors happy.
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If anyone else can confirm/deny the previous Nurse Blink/M1 thing posted above with something I can read/watch, I'd appreciate it.
Just trying to educate myself on the matter.
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"It's mostly low-IQ shitstorming from people who refuse to learn how to play against her."
Exactly.
All of you, survivor who are complaining about the nurse: show us on video how you play against her, for starters.
And then we'll see what it's really like.
We'll see if the video shows an omnipotent nurse able to roll over expert survivors, despite the fact that they don't make any mistakes ... or if the video actually shows us players who know nothing about her , and are unable to play her without crying foul.
No. She's not too strong.
Survivants are not good enought. That's all.
If you want to prove to me that it's too strong, show me a series of videos where we see a nurse doing 4K with no problem against EXPERT survivors.
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Years ago when they changed Nurse so she could blink from a lower height to a higher height and vice versa, this also introduced blinking down at the ground to reduce/alter the blink distance (not sure if this was intentional). If the devs make it so Nurses can't readjust her blink she'll have to go the distance she actually held her blink for (like Nurse used to be like).
This would buff double backing. Nurses would no longer be able to hold their blink, they'd have to commit.
Yes this would reduce her QOL.
Although even after writing all this I'd much rather a full rework.
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I would definetly want to keep Nurse around. There need to be at least some feared killers.
Only possible changes I saw:
nerf long range addons -> they are really broken on some maps like Saloon.
Maybe make her blink special attack? Problem is that it's her only attack mostly, so that would nerf her hard and makes lot of perks useless. Blight has it as special attack, but blight also can play as m1 killer if needed.
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I'm still trying to find some sort of data/explanation of the difference in hitboxes based on when you press M1 after a blink if anyone can help me out with a link?
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IF a survivor is touching a rock, their hitbox becomes said rock, fence, wall.
Nurse also seems to record whatever she is looking at the moment you start the lunge. So if you are facing a wall and the survivor spins, then it will hit said wall.
Survivor hitboxes have also become super sensitive after the update and will block the nurse, even out in the open or during drops if you blink where the survivor is/ will be, the game will force you to blink in place. Especially near rocks and boxes for some reason. I tried to overblink a survivors dead hard out in open space and just stayed in place because they E buttoned exactly where i would have landed.
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To clarify:
The quote:
"You realise that Nurse has a functionally different attack immediately coming out of a blink right?
Different speed, different hitbox, different animation.
That is the attack that should be classed as a special attack."
is what I am looking for info on.
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She shouldn’t be able to one hit with her blinks. That’s the first step in a good direction.
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Nurse getting an Oni style treatment could be cool. Make her movement speed a bit higher out of her special phase, but be unable to blink until you do enough.. whatever it is.
Basically to limit her powers availability to limited periods of time, so she would have bursts of strength.
Course she'd have to get retuned in other areas but I think starting from there would be a good step
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Last attempt for some kind of info/source on this, after which I'm just going to assume it's inaccurate.
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maybe make her blinks start to recharge after her fatigue ends not as it starts but increase her fatigue movement speed a little to counterbalance it
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Many games do indeed have high skill ceiling characters that have high returns in performance if you master the character.
Nurse is a poor example though. Lowest kill rate but most effective by far is variance that presents a problem to game balance.
The only thing saving Nurse right now is that her pick rate is pretty high.
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Yeah....that puts her blink attack in line with normal attacks.
I'm 100% in agreeance with you.
I'm looking for info regarding what was stated in this quote:
"You realise that Nurse has a functionally different attack immediately coming out of a blink right?
Different speed, different hitbox, different animation.
That is the attack that should be classed as a special attack.
If you wait a second and then attack after the blink, before the fatigue hits, it's a regular M1 attack, and those attacks are still perfectly reasonable hits that land all the time. But there's at least a chance of dodging them with a DH or a 360. The blink-attack, where you hit M1 as you're blinking, virtually undodgable, unless the nurse messes up the blink or you pre-empt a DH while she's blinking."
I personally can't find anything on the topic.
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She won't get a change, fundamentally not possible to work with more nerfs.
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No longer blink through pallets and windows, so she can finally not ignore basic defenses.
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At this point, I'm forced to conclude evidence does not exist/will not be coming.
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for simple changes:
Well for one her blink attacks should be special attacks. In addition to that her addons should be nerfed. 3 blinks and range should all be dumpstered. Cooldown should be a little less good.
Another small change would be to make the recharging more like blights where her cooldown doesn't start charging until AFTER her fatigue ends.
For more complex stuff:
make it something like oni/plague, she is a 110 move speed killer but she has to do something to get her lethality with the blinks. Perhaps she can't actually attack after blinking unless she's in her "more powerful" mode or maybe doing something earns tokens and you have to spend those tokens to actually perform blink attacks, but otherwise you just blink without attacking.
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The only way I see it working, is having an ability similar to Oni's where she needs to absorb energy to have access to her blinks
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This will cause the nurse mains to raise their pitchforks and torches :O
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