RIP the BBQ bonus that I used on addons
RIP the BBQ bonus that I used on addons. The vast majority of the time, I use BPs to buy addons, but I apparently don’t need extra addons anymore because the prestige system makes it easier for me to get perks.
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goodbye old friend BBQ have had that perk on my Bubba since day 1 he released
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Without the bonus, I see zero reason to ever put BBQ on again. There are plenty of perks that give you information but are better.
I'm very surprised BHVR killed the BP bonus as it can't be a secret that most killers run it for that, not the pitiful information you get that is still super easy to counter...
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We're very aware of that (we actually mentioned exactly that in the dev update). However, we do not want people to always have one perk slot locked in just for bloodpoints. Your perk choices should be the perks you want to run, not the ones that make the grind manageable. There was very little reason to run other aura reading perks when this one gave both information and doubled your bloodpoints.
We made sure to pair this with a huge grind reduction and new ways to earn bloodpoints to compensate, but this is ultimately a step that we need to take.
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...You won't need as many bloodpoints to get your addons if you're not scouring the bloodwebs for the perks that you want, though?
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I get the why, I'm just very surprised you didn't add anything to bbq when taking away the BP part. The BP part for I imagine most is the only only reason to run it over any other info perks so getting rid of that part while changing nothing else feels like it'll dagger anyone ever wanting to use that perk again.
Just surprised you wouldn't add something to it to make it worth running
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yeah, I use BBQ bonus on addons as well.
1) players should be allowed to use multiple offerings per trial. eg. Black Ward, and bonus offerings
2) they need to increase the number of bonus offerings in the bloodweb.
3) they need a system where you get bloodpoints from unwanted addons, offerings, etc.
-eg if you buy an addon for 5K points, you can discard it for 2k,3k.
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But bloodwebs are for more than just earning perks. Add-ons/items, map offerings, and BP offerings are all getting a pretty hard nerf by effectively being twice as expensive as they were beforehand. Running a purple and yellow add-on now eliminates over a third of your earned BP, and that's with a perfect game. Not to mention all the junk bloodweb items you have to chew thru to get the chance at the add-ons you actually want.
Perhaps in addition to the grind reduction, the wreath/flower offerings can be retired as well. They replace useful offerings or addons, and best case scenario barely make up the BP that was spent on them. Or just make the BP gains from BBQ and WGLF basekit.
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Unless the bloodpoint incentitives are going to give me at least +100% BPS per match, you’re making my addon grind worse.
I only have two killers that are prestieged at all. I’m so far behind the prestige grind, and there are so very few killers I play because of SBMM, that it’s a waste of time for me to prestiege more killers. Most my killers only had enough perks unlocked to be “good enough” for the pre-SBMM era. Unless you’re going to P3 all my existing killers out of pity, the prestiege rework isn’t going to help me at all.
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RIP my endless sustain of vanity mirrors for my Myers.
New ways...plural?
Aside from the queue rewards (which ideally won't ever go past 25% or so), what other sources are there?
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Not really... the more bloodwebs you have, the more add-ons you'll get.
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I'm gonna miss the bloodpoints, but now I can run Discordance or Darkness Revealed or Thrilling Tremors without feeling like I'm losing out, so that's not bad.
That said, yeah, people with all perks unlocked didn't care about the perk grind; it was pure addon sustainability, where you wanted to buy at least one of the same addon after each match you used it. That's less feasible now.
Also, WGLF straight-up sucks now. BBQ at least has a good aura reading effect; WGLF is nothing without the bloodpoint bonus.
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Whilst I absolutely agree with removing the BP bonuses from perks, and am hugely appreciative of the shrine of secrets and prestige changes that absolutely reduce the grind, I still think those bonuses could have been moved to potentially game conditions that encourage team work from the survivors side and not tunnelling/camping to the killers side to promote healthier gameplay at base kit.
For example: Perhaps if the killer hooks all 4 survivors once per trial, they get that double bloodpoint bonus at a base kit without needing to run a perk.
For survivors - I'm unsure what it would be (and appreciate it's much harder to create one so you don't promote griefing your team-mates), but I think some form of team condition that the survivor side could achieve would unlock a double bp bonus for them, too.
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How about making it so the number of stacks you get is your highest chain of unique survivors hooked, capped at 4 like BBQ. So if you tunnel, you'll never get more than 2 stacks, but if you spread hooks you can easily get 4.
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One of the top reasons to run killer is more BP for your time and frustration with BBQ. How will this be accomplished now? Honestly, why should I put up with the absolute annoyance of playing killer when I can no longer get a significant bump in my BP per match? The joy of playing killer was obliterated with MMR, so BP was the only real driving factor. Add in how absolutely useless BBQ is without the BP. Seeing someone across the map on Trapper does absolutely nothing for me. By the time I get 40+meters away, they are long gone. I can't count on them being close if I don't see them as they could be in a boon, locker or running an aura-blocking perk. BBQ is absolute trash now.
This feels like a very poorly thought-out move, which is often par for the course.
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The obvious solution would have been to make BBQ and WGLF's BP bonuses base kit. Both had triggers which encourage players to make the game generally better for everyone; going for different survivors rather than tunneling, and saving safely instead of farming.
Removing the BP bonuses is obnoxious as hell and pretending that lessening the grind, which is only in regards to collecting perk tiers, and only affects players AFTER the huge initial grind of leveling every character to 50 anyway, is anywhere near good enough compensation is ludicrous.
As the dev post said, you were very proud of lowering the grind by 75%. Then for a huge amount of players you doubled it again, just to make sure the changes felt worse anyway.
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I wouldn't say "plenty", especially after how hard they nerfed Tinkerer.
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The blood webs are no less expensive. They just killed the best way to get through them faster. What a ######### disaster.
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As others have pointed out, while the perk grind will be reduced by 75%, BP gains also just got cut by 50% for ALL players. In the end, this is doing next to nothing for newer or more casual players. Entry level grind is the #1 reason most players dont stick around. I know because over the years ive tried to get sooo many ppl into this game n not a single one of em stayed.
I like the idea of the new prestige system, but if you dont make significant changes to increase BP alongside it, its going to be dead in the water. Some potential que bonus is never going to be able to replace guaranteed double BP.
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I don’t use BBQ, but to be clear about half the people who do use it use it for its aura and not the bloodpoints. So it will see less use but there are definitely people who will still use it just for its other effect.
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Nerfing BBQ bp bonus is the most nonsense change I've seen in this game and God know how many you've done. The same goes for WGLF
Many casual players play killer just for this perk...And many others buy Bubba just for BBQ.
Actually I'm pretty sure people uses BBQ for the BP bonus and not for the aura reading.
" We reduced the grind by 75% " please find another excuse, something that prove you really plays your game, for once. I use my BP to buy addons too and since the majority of most killer's addons sucks, i have to spend many BP to find the good one.
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What about something to replace the way WGLF and BBQ encouraged gameplay overall? Getting stacks on those perks was a highly rewarding part of gameplay. There's nothing to take that place, now. If the stack multiplier of BBQ and WGLF had become base kit, that'd be one thing, but there's just... nothing. My friend and I compete with each other for who gets their WGLF stacks quickest.
WGLF and BBQ made up for how unrewarding normal gameplay can feel. You guys have done nothing to address that, but you have taken away the perks that could be used to boost player morale.
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What are the multiple new ways? Currently we get a bonus IF there's a lack of players for a specific role, but if you WANT to play survivor and the bonus is currently for killer only, you have no way of getting more bloodpoints per match besides using offerings.
If there was another change, such as a 50-100% base bp increase at the end of the match, since the optional one is being removed, or making BPS be a guaranteed every bloodweb level, there would be no reason for anyone to complain.
As it is now, you're stating that the grind is being reduced by 75%, but you're also doubling the difficulty to get bloodpoints if the player doesn't want to always fill for the role that has a deficit of players.
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Why not double bp all around then? The grind reduction is cut in half by removing the bp bonuses from perks. Because most people were enjoying the bonus bp from those perks to help with the grind. While you've made moves to reduce the grind, you then went and doubled it. So the grind reduction is really only about 50% instead of 75% You could at least increase the bp gain by 50% to make it more bearable to lose the bp bonuses from those perks
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BHVR is nerfing BBQ and Pain Resonance, so that less people can find new targets when they hook a survivor. Killer's aren't supposed to camp, but BHVR is purposely making it harder for a killer to find someone else to chase. Instead, I guess killers are supposed to just randomly wander around the map and hope to find someone?
How is this fair? Why are there so many changes to make it easier for survivors to escape a chase, but killers don't get anything to make it easier to find other targets to chase?
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I have never seen a more outrageous change. Many killers endure their role just for bonus points, because they don't get anything else for their efforts.
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What makes you think that? At least anecdotally, it seems like most people on the forums (myself included) run BBQ strictly for the BP bonus and the aura reading is gravy (or at least that's what people say).
Certainly not impossible there's more who run it for the aura but it feels like it's one of the worst info perks you can run.
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You're right, I never camp, but when I don't have any information, I just walk close to the hook.
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Honestly? I find this great. It's a bit ridiculous that I can run green or higher addons for every game of killer and never run out. Just every game with Nurse range and recharge and I get so many bloodpoints from BBQ that I'll never run out. Making it easier to unlock perks while lowering the number of bloodwebs so really good addons aren't just in every game is probably healthier for the game overall.
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I did a poll a while back with a good number of respondents asking if people would still use BBQ if it didn’t have its bloodpoint bonus. The replies were split roughly 50/50 on people saying they would no longer use the perk versus continuing to use it. Also someone did a similar poll today and got 60% of people saying they use it mainly for bloodpoints and 40% using it for aura reading or aura reading plus bloodpoints.
And I’m not disagreeing with you that other perks are better aura reading. I don’t use it personally for that reason. But there’s definitely a core base of users out there that really like BBQ just for its ability to give auras after every hook. They think it’s useful because it’s predictable and consistent and the info is useful, especially for killers that have the map mobility to act on long range auras.
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Huh ...fair. Strange but fair :D
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I should also add my poll was before Scourge Hook Floods of Rage existed. Personally I like that perk better than BBQ and they have a bit of overlap in function so I’m guessing if I took the poll again there would be some people who use Floods now that used to use BBQ.
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You might want to update your info with another poll than because I bet a big chunk of people who said they were aren't because why pick bbq when for exists lol
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BBQ needs something added to it, the aura reading is not very good and not worth running as a perk when you can use other information perks. I hope you guys will consider giving it something extra in the same way you gave WGLF something extra.
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Someone did a poll this afternoon, 60% of people said they use BBQ for mainly for bloodpoints and didn’t care about the auras. But 40% said the aura reading was a main reason they use it (either just on its own or in combo)
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I’m incredibly disappointed with this change and am now much less motivated to play the game. Yes, you made changes to the prestige system to reduce the grind. However, you have now effectively doubled the grind for players like me who use BBQ all the time with the goal of getting 2x blood points almost every match. One step forward, two steps back.
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Same here. The prestige system changes really don’t help players like me much. And now my grind has been made much worse with this change. This is yet another example of BHVR making idiotic changes that nobody asked for because they think they know what players want more than the actual players do. Right now I have zero motivation to play the game because of how disappointed I am with this change.
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Yeah, I played killer for getting BBQ stacks. That was my win condition, that was my fun. I really dunno what I'm going to focus on without BBQ. Whenever I've played without BBQ in the past, I got really demotivated because hooks stopped mattering and I just kind of got bored with participating in matches or if I got annoyed I slugged everyone to death. "Hooking" as a gameplay mechanic is boring on its own.
Maybe I'll just go back to Dying Light and making zombie heads explode. At least that's satisfying.
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I mean when I play bubba I play basement bubba or slug bubba and really didn't use bbq on him that much heck I find him fun to play with meme builds lol Also you're still going to get salt for the chili either way with bubba it's just they got rid of a reason why a bubba should leave the hook besides wanting it to be fair
And that has me worried that his power will be hit in the future that will hurt basement bubba
I don't want bubba to be hit with the billy treatment
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Can you buff bbq's aura reading please
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Unfortunately these changes are going to end up doing the exact opposite of what they are intending.
M1 simulator with no point or reward for saving or bodyblocking.
Better off just doing generators and escaping.
Boring as ever.
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..... It's not a grind reduction at all if you're spending the BP on add-ons.
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Why not just spread the bonus around then, information perks also come with a bloodpoint bonus to incentivize running less slowdown
and do the same for altruistic survivor perks
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Legit at some point when i was looking for a new killer to main bubba was high on that list until i tried out pig
that's why I'm afraid they will give him the billy treatment(ie make him unfun for people who don't play him often) and therefore making him less played and as someone who also plays survivor I love going against the occasional bubba I also have fun going against the endangered hillbilly
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That is actually a weirdly valid point
When I play new characters that don't have BBQ unlocked, I get weird about not seeing my stacks. Like...I don't know how many stacks I have and it makes me fidget like a crackhead who is coming down and can't afford his next hit until tomorrow.
I'm not even all that sure why. I have BP coming out my BH so I don't really NEED BP. BBQ is just a fun and easy way to track if I'm "winning"
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Disagree with the 50% cut for all players.
True it's pretty easy to hook all 4 survivors while playing killer, but not every player will have tier 3 BBQ on every killer, particularly new players. Especially since Bubba can only be bought with real money and the perk doesn't appear in the shrine very often.
Same goes for WGLF, and it was always harder to get 4 stacks making survivor even less of a guaranteed 2x bonus.
I definitely get what you're saying and I'll miss the BP bonuses from these two perks, but I think in the anniversary stream they mentioned more frequent login rewards, bloodhunt weekends, etc. We also have chilis, cakes, and other BP offerings. I know this won't completely make up for the loss but it will offset it a little.
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Basekit BP bonus idea
Killer: get a 25% bonus per 1st hook on survivor, up to 100%. Once a survivor is dead, you can no longer gain stacks. This would encourage killers to go after different survivors and maybe reduce tunneling a tiny bit.
Survivor: basically stays the same, get stacks for safe unhooks/protection hits, but without the full safety of BT. You could also add in something like 'doing a total of 100% gen progress during a trial rewards a single stack. Can only earn 1 per trial'. Just to give players a little more incentive to do a gen.
Search "bloodpoint changes and player retention" to read full post.
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Humans need rewards. It's a dopamine thing. BBQ/WGLF stacks provided an obtainable, visible, and rewarding goal. A lot of matches are pretty miserable for both sides; players could focus on stacks as a goal and feel good about it.
All BHVR needed to do was make the rewards basekit and give us a little visual indicator of our stacks. It doesn't matter if they don't think we need the Bloodpoints: players need motivation. The devs focus on balance and the grind and forget about player psychology, rewards, and making things feel fun.
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Humans badly designed, please rework them God
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Heya Peanits! I didn't know how to ask this question but how come BBQ didn't get a secondary effect when you removed the bloodpoints bonus but you added a built in soul guard for We're Gonna Live Forever?
I'd like to see the aura reading last a few seconds longer for every unique survivor I hook by a few seconds. It would be great to help find survivors when they run that new distortion buff!
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So what's the justification for ripping out the BP bonus in both BBQ and WGLF but then buffing only WGLF - the survivors got something in compensation for removing BP from their perk but killers didn't. Given that this update nerfed 7 meta killer perks but only 5 meta survivor perks (plus greatly buffing BT on the survivor side) this is a very one-sided update. Even the non-meta perks BHVR have improved 10 killer perks and 16 survivor perks - it's bad enough facing 4 vs 16 perks but to heavily upgrade one side in a "balancing" change?
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