New DH is Actually Better?
Comments
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Doesn't Endurance automatically confer a deep wound if you get hit?
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While I agree with the bit involving that it shouldn't give a speed boost when hit, this will be probably one of the more skillful aspects in the game. Like for instance: take Devil May Cry 5 and how much value you get out of a perfectly timed parry since you attacked just as they swung and the enemy gets stunned. That's an example of a skilled play, the same could be said about this. Would you consider it to be skilled then if it was cut down to half? What would soothe your twisted mind?
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No, there’s no mending.
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No, Endurance doesn’t automatically inflict Deep Wound. Borrowed Time inflicts it but that’s specific to that perk.
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The problem I had with Dead Hard as a Legion main was simple... I catch up to the player, I swing he Dead Hards, and I miss, ending my frenzy. Now, sure he can Dead Hard, but I still hit him and so it still counts. Its the same as with when a survivor has Borrowed Time, I will absolutely hit the survivor that just got off the hook, but I won't down them even if they didn't have BT... because I am a Legion.
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I cannot think of any Endurance effect in the game that does not give a deep wound, aside from MoM. I think it's reasonable to assume that DH will work the same way.
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I've been telling everyone distance wasn't the problem with DH cause most of the time people just use it on walls or in the middle of nowhere, now we're all stuck with a free health state perk.
Not to mention cheaters can use script that would activate DH just when you would hit them.
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75% of survivors use Dead Hard and 50% of survivors use Borrowed Time.
Better make Dead Hard nearly the same (but better in many cases), give a half-sized Borrowed Time to ALL survivors for free, and super charge Borrowed Time to absolutely embarrassing levels!
M E T A
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Endurance itself doesn’t inflict Deep Wound, like you said. The perks that do inflict it explicitly say so in their descriptions.
Also Styptic Agent gives Endurance without a Deep Wound, FYI.
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Styptic agent absolutely gives a deep wound.
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Mettle of Man grants endurance, but being hit does not give deep wounds.
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Yes, I specified MoM as the exception in the quote you used :).
I've always wondered if that was an oversight that they never got around to fixing, because almost nobody runs MoM.
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For the build up you have to do to get MoM to trigger, it not applying deep wounds is hardly a problem.
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Looks like that wiki page for Styptic needs an update, the main description doesn’t match the history section.
At any rate, like I said, not everything that gives Endurance inflicts Deep Wounds on a hit. The things that do mention it.
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The only exception is MoM, from what I can tell. And as I said, that feels like a simple oversight they never fixed because of how wretchedly bad the perk is.
EDIT: Literally just saw Styptic used on a stream, it gives deep wound.
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In almost all cases, Endurance does automatically inflict Deep Wound. The odd one out is Mettle of Man. Styptic Agent, Soul Guard and BT all apply deep wound. I assume, and hope, it will be the same for Dead Hard.
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Wheres mine for the lethal pursuer change while were at it then
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There’s literally only 4 things that give Endurance and one of them doesn’t inflict Deep Wounds. There’s no particular reason to think it’s an accident.
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Four things with one that doesn’t have it.
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And that thing is likely not supposed to work like that, it's just that they've never bothered fixing it as - even without DW - it's still craptacular.
Again - I'd bet dollars to donuts that DH gives deep wound. We'll have to see though.
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Can't please everyone... personally I like the change now there won't be the eat powers hit but instead they have to actually time it right to get hit but also get a deep wound state.
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The perk should be redesigned so the server favors whichever person pressed their button first. In the survivor's case it's the dead hard button, and in the killer's case it's when they started holding down the lunge button. It's not fair that the server compares a zero frame startup dead hard, to a much larger than zero frame startup lunge.
And comparing it to perfectly timed Devil May Cry parries isn't a good idea. I think they have a 6 active frame window, and that is a much smaller duration than dead hard's full second active frame window.
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Styptic Agent actually defines Endurance. Endurance prevents a survivor from being downed, inflicting deep wound instead.
BT, Soul Guard and Styptic specify gain Endurance for X Seconds, while Mettle of Man actually does not make any mention of Endurance, instead stating: Once activated, the next occasion that would put you into the dying state from the injured state is ignored.
Now, either BHVR simply made a mistake or Mettle of Man is different because it actually doesn't grant Endurance. Based on Styptic's flavor text, and the consistency between Styptic, BT and Soul Guard, one could come to the conclusion that Endurance does, in fact, cause Deep Wound. Especially since BT and SG make no mention of Deep Wound.
@StarLost I wouldn't mind your input on this.
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You speak as if you have no motivation when it comes to my comparison. That is an interesting idea with having to predict literally the server registering whichever first but I don't see that happening, unfortunately...
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According to some calculations it can help you take 5 protection hits for someone
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Idk but I know they shouldn't get a speed boost
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Honestly, no idea. It comes down to semantics, and we'd need a dev to weigh in to conclusively say one way or the other.
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It's better in one half of It's uses for those skillful enough to use it.
It can't just be used for distance anymore.
Plus it causes slowdown via mending.
If someone gets a DH off against you, it may be more efficient to drop chase and pressure someone else, someone who doesn't have to mend.
Plus it will no longer cause powers to whiff via hit validation. You won't for example be able to DH a Doctor's shock, or over a Trap.
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After triggering your third Protection Hit, Mettle of Man activates and you are protected by the Endurance
It’s right there in the perk description.
Also Endurance isn’t “defined by Styptic Agent”, Endurance is its own condition with its own icon that other things can put on survivors. There are currently four things which can give survivors Endurance, three of them also happen to inflict Deep Wounds as a separate Condition if the survivor would go to the dying state and one which doesn’t. Dead Hard is going to give survivors Endurance for 1 second but unless the description says something about Deep Wounds that’s a separate condition independent of Endurance.
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Dead Hard is supposed to be a dodge ability. To make you dodge the killer's attack. Not super rush 2-4 meters whenever you want. I like the change. It might make it easier for me to use anyways.
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There's an Endurance effect. After a hit, that gives a Deep Wound instead of just ignoring the hit like it does now.
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Which is the one that doesn't give Deep Wound?
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Mettle of Man
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Well, at least they didn't managed to "fix" this thing, it had to have some kind of immobilization to actually make "skillful" perk, it can still be used to make distance otherwise impossible to make.
It's actually "be invincible for 4 meters whenever you want" instead of "super rush few meters whenever you want", which, could be WORSE than old one.
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I just think "second chance" perks all around for Killer (NOED) and Survivor (Dead Hard) are poor game design and just shouldn't exist
The killer lost at the end of the match if it got to that point, and the Survivor lost the Mind Game
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