Camping: what's the solution?
Clearly many people are upset that BHVR have done basically nothing to address camping, which will only become worse after this update with increased gen times. How would you propose they fix camping? What would your solution/solutions be?
My proposal is that hook state timers should be increased for stage 1 and 2. 10-15 seconds each (additional 20-30 seconds in total) to balance out the new gen times. I also think that Kinship should become baseline in a slightly different way, say if the killer is within 24 meters and you reach second state without being unhooked you gain an additional 30 seconds of hook time, something like that.
Comments
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Those seem like changes that could be tested- I imagine they've already considered that and ruled it out for some reason, but they'd also previously done the same for increasing generator times iirc, so maybe it's time to revisit it.
For Leatherface specifically, I do have one idea: If his chainsaw stopped when it hit the Endurance effect, he'd be forced to only accept a hook trade, which is all most other killers that want to facecamp can do reliably.
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I believe the Home Sweet Home survival game had a mechanic where someone could pick the soul of a downed teammate and revive it somewhere else, if nobody did the person would respawn somewhere else by itself and lose a "hook" state or something like that, didnt play the game but I saw some youtube videos, if someone played and know exactly how it worked feel free to correct me.
Pyramid Head cages are also a fix for camping.
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I like that idea, I think it'd be a fair change that would only hinder facecamp Bubba. Honestly, if they're going to tweak gen times, they should be open to tweaking other aspects like hook state times.
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Imo hook stages should be significantly lengthened (80-90s) to compensate for longer gens (and make perks like Deadlock and DMS Artist less powerful for camping) and the time to unhook a survivor should be slightly lowered (eg. -0.2s) to compensate for the reduced basic attack cooldown.
I also think the baseline protection needs to be a bit more than 5 seconds but it should just remove the survivor’s collision rather than an endurance effect. Make it good for anti-tunneling, not for preventing the killer from attempting to chase someone else. This also makes it actually do something against leatherface.
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I like that idea. Longer baseline BT (9-10 seconds ideally imo) and you get no collision. This would make it used for what it's meant for, running away rather than chasing the killer to try and bodyblock.
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Everything they've done to enhance the killer's power in chase and add extra incentive to kick gens are anti-camping measures. The scenarios where killers hook someone at 3 gens and immediately stick around are the ones where the killer has decided to cede the game because they aren't confident they'll be able to get anything else out of the match if they were to leave. If that mental math looks better to the killer, they'll be less likely to give up and camp the rest of the match out.
That said, I've seen the idea to at least make grabs off hook guarantee that the hooked survivor gets unhooked anyway - to force the trade - and I think that would probably be okay as long as a very coordinated team of survivors couldn't "take back" the trade by setting up a third person to do a flash save to rescue the grabbed unhooker.
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Where are these patch notes at for the new changes?
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Thank you.
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Basekit Kindred. Killers are free to camp, and survivors can make decisions based off of the information. Killers aren't punished for intelligent camping but also can't unga bunga camp their way to victory unless the survivors are straight up throwing. Camping remains a viable tactic to win with, but you can't just camp for camping's sake and win because solo is badly designed.
Decision-making and game sense are skills. Simply giving survivors information doesn't mean they'll make optimal use of it at all times. And if you camp and get burned as a killer, then you've miscalculated the situation. It happens. There has to be some expectation that both sides have to play well from a mechanical and game sense standpoint to win. But making it artificially difficult via lack of information because of party composition for some players is genuinely terrible design IMO
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I am still really against giving basekit Kindred:
- Exact position on the killer if he is camping
- Immediate confirmation in a fairly large radius where the killer isn't if he ISN'T camping
- SWF's would still benefit significantly because it's a free perk. They're just using it for something different - getting perfect coordinates on the killer for their coordinated unhooks - matters less in a hook trade but supremely when dealing with exposes/one-hit killers
I would much rather it was done something like how we know when the obsession is being chased. Just grow another entity UI element around the hooked players icon when the killer is within X meters. That would help solo's immediately, not buff SWF in any way shape or form, and also not create any ancillary uses.
This also thematically makes sense, because the Entity feeds off hope and it's basically teasing the survivors via UI: "Come unhook your friend if you dare, there be killers lurking."
EDIT: I would also be fine with a giant eyeball looking down from the sky above the hook if the killer is camping, because the Entity literally has nothing else to watch in that moment.
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Kindred baseline would be really nice.
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Even if they took away killer aura reading and made the hooked survivor aura work like Buckle Up based on proximity, I'd be fine with that. I just think solos need some way to coordinate unhooks in higher MMR lobbies. Speaking for myself as a killer who practiced camping a lot in scrims, you really need 2 survivors with one blocking to safely unhook when the killer is really experienced at camping. It's really difficult to unhook against a killer that knows how to cheese the hook collision to bodyblock it, play for grabs, etc.
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I agree with everything you wrote, and like the buckle up suggestion. I just can't see basekit Kindred (Edit: As we currently know kinedred) for my previous reasons. SoloQ definitely needs help though.
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I would only give the Kindred base kit after 10-15 seconds of the hook. This gives the killer plenty of time to get away so survivors don’t get a freebie on someone not camping, I would also make this go through undetectable so no insidious camping. Ideally it would also be disabled if another survivor was within 16 meters of a hook so if a survivor is chased there the killer isn’t punished by happenstance. I would also use that distance to slow down hook progress if the killer is within range, this would also extend to self unhook attempts so suiciding survivors can’t get out faster and also would get more attempts to get off (only if killer is close). Therefore it would mean ‘doing gens’ to counter it is a much more obvious play.
Camping would still happen and it would still suck, but it’s be way less profitable for a killer.
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