My suggestion on how to fix camping and a detailed explanation as to why
Okay, so, lets start with a discussion on camping, because I think it's important to talk about why I see this as an issue that needs to be fixed.
What is camping?
Camping is a strategy where the killer sits next to a hooked person making it really hard or near impossible to save the hooked person, thus guaranteeing a kill. Camping can be ones of two types:
- Literal face-camping, a term coined from the original days of DbD when a killer could literally sit right in front of the hooked person preventing the survivor from being unhooked entirely (since back then you could only unhook from the front and not the sides); These days this just refers to people sitting right next to the hook
- Proxy-camping, which refers to killers staying nearby the hook and patrolling the area
Different killers have different success rates at camping. Bubba and Billy really good at face-camping thanks to their ability to insta-down, same goes for Myers with T3 ready etc. Meanwhile ranged killers like Huntress, Trickster and Slinger and good at proxy-camping. Won't mention all killers good at what, because camping is something every killer can do, some are just better at it than others.
Now that we talked about what camping is, let's ask the next big question.
Why is camping an issue?
Since camping means taking someone out from the game as soon as possible and is meant to prevent that person from being unhooked, that means once a person is down the only gameplay that person experiences is being on a hook and then struggling.
This is just not fun gameplay. Dead by Daylight is a video game, it's a form of entertainment, which means it should be fun and enjoyable first and foremost. Being camped is just not fun, not being able to experience a match that you queued up for is not fun, regardless of how long you actually had to wait for the match. The excuse of "you can just queue back up again" is not a good excuse and feels demeaning. Everybody has limited time in their life and if all of their experience all day is just being camped and tunneled it won't exactly make them wanna play anymore.
This is why camping is an issue, it simply removes gameplay from a person and ruins their fun and also ruins the experience of everybody else, because no other survivor gets to play the game and just get to hold M1 or, if they are unlucky, be the next target for camping. And with so many perks in the game that can actually help with gens going slower, in the end this strategy, which the devs have, for some reason, deemed it is perfectly acceptable, can guarantee multiple at the cost of the killer doing essentially nothing.
So the short explanation is, games are supposed to be fun and, no, random threat of not being able to play the match at all does not make it more exciting or enticing, it just leads to people being frustrated and unhappy, which is not what you want from people playing your game. It also makes it so, despite having to sit for such a long time on the hook, you get no points being there, so you just die with like no BP to your name, all the while the killer will still end up with like 20k BP.
So now with out of the way, I hope I convinced you as to why camping should not be in the game, so now onto the million dollar question.
Okay so, how do you fix camping?
I've seen a lot of suggestions on how to do it, a lot of them seem to revolve around slowing hook progression or increasing gen speeds, but I don't like that. They don't solve the issue of why camping is a problem, aka it's unfun for the person currently hooked, they all just concentrate on making it so the killer is punished and everybody else escapes instead.
My solution involves a couple changes:
- Remove being able to grab people unhooking
- Disable killer powers within 16m of a hooked person and have it stay disabled for 3s after the person gets unhooked
- Make it so when a killers power is disabled their movement speed is increased to 4.6 m/s
Now that I said what needs to be done I will go and explain my reasoning behind all of them
What are your reasons besides each suggestion?
1) Remove being able to grab people unhooking
The reason for this is simple: removes the whole hook standoff and prevents face-camping from normal M1 killers, forcing them to just hit the unhooker and, at best, cause a hook exchange. Does it guarantee unhooks? Yes, but that is the whole point, the game should keep moving and everybody should be able to actually have to get into chases and be on the hook.
2) Disable killer powers within 16m of a hooked person and have it stay disabled for 3s after the person gets unhooked
This should be obvious, but this is to force all killers to be M1 killers, preventing killers like Bubba and co from just having easy camping ability. Why 16 meters tho? That is the same range as Kindred, which I feel comfortable with saying that it is a safe distance where it can't be abused by survivors, whilst not being abused by killers either for being too small.
"Okay, but why the 3s lingering power being disabled?" And that is simple: so you can't just wait for a person to be unhooked and then immediately use your power, the biggest offender being Bubba, obviously. It should also be plenty of time to get out of the basement, hopefully making it less threatening (although the basement is an entire different discussion best saved for another time)
3) Make it so when a killers power is disabled their movement speed is increased to 4.6 m/s
This is to ensure that all killers are equal when it comes to this anti-camping measure, because obviously if it were just like this people would complain about Nurse being at a disadvantage or Huntress or Slinger etc. This ensures that all killers are just M1 killers, which the standard is that they move at 4.6 m/s
Conclusion
These changes are not meant to make it to where every other survivor just escapes, thus punishing the killer from getting any more kills, but instead to encourage survivors to go save, rather than thinking it is a lost cause.
Obviously there might still be an issue with something like STBFL, which you could fix by having so getting injured while unhooking does not stop the process, but a lot of things would just have to be tested with such a system first and from there worked on and improved.
So there you go everybody, my comprehensive solution to camping, complete with my reasoning as to why this needs to happen and my thought process to the changes that were made. I would love to hear your feedback from this.
Also devs, if you took the time to read all of this, thank you and I hope you give this a shot and understand that camping is not a fun strategy to go against and shouldn't be something a survivor should ever expect. Being told "well you might just not play the game and also get nothing out of it whilst being forced to essentially do nothing for 120s" isn't exactly the best selling point of DbD.
Comments
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Hook grabs are there to punish unsafe hook saves. Why should the unhooker be rewarded for unhooking their teammate in the killer's face ? If you make a mistake, you should be punished for being careless. Simple as that.
You want to punish the killer for doing their job by shutting off their power near hooked survivors ? No. They earned their hook. Deal with it. Go do gens. If a killer is gonna sit there and camp one person, they've already lost. Literally gen rush them and leave. Yes, the hooked person has to take an L for the team, but the killer only gets that single kill all game if you rush gens. That's the countermeasure for camping.
Camping is generally a losing strategy. A viable one, but a losing one. I actively don't camp hooks because of losing more games that way than any other way. You camp a hook, gens fly, and then after they're done, they still unhook the last survivor and get 4 escapes. It rarely works out for the killer.
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Whenever we speak about camping, tunneling or slugging, just remember the grim average for high MMR games:
Survivors scoring 60% total completion (3 gens) by the time the killer scores only 8.3% completion (1 hook) and just how unfair it is to demand that nobody camp, tunnel or slug under those conditions, but instead try to hook in perfect order, which all but guarantees a loss.
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Dude that's just 100% not true. If you are semi-competent at killer, you can punish a hook rushing survivor simply by hitting them with your M1. They should go down after the unhook, especially now that the M1 recovery has been lowered slightly.
Hook grabbing requires the killer to be right in front of the hook, so in most cases, all it really does is allow for more effective camping. That's what it actually does. Only very rarely is it ever used effectively to punish a survivor rushing a hook.
Also, that "just do gens" comment is so perfect at illustrating how problematic the upcoming patch will be if nothing is done about camping. Because now, that strategy is going to take 10 seconds longer for each gen. And yes, camping is already a viable strategy, especially when using NOED and Deadlock. That combined with tunneling is one of the strongest strategies in the game, if not the strongest for killers. You just shouldn't suck at getting your first down.
Hook Grabs need to go, and the hook phase duration needs to be increase considerably, from 60 seconds to something like 75 or 80 seconds. Or the devs can just do nothing, but in that case I am convinced that these forums will be flooded with killer mains crying over their 20+ minutes queue times.
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I agree that hook grabs are problematic. Like the old hatch grabs, they force a standoff situation that's no fun for anyone and is completely luck of the draw. Plus, it only really happens with camping.
Without hook grabs, killers would be forced to hit the survivor making the rescue, which is now much easier with the changes to attack cooldowns, and it would make a hook trade far more likely, while reducing the chances of a 2nd free hook.
That's a net gain for survivors, as the chances of two survivors being on hooks simultaneously is decreased, while a hook trade is generally in their favour, it relieves a survivor close to death, and replaces them with one who's got more time to spare, which is particularly good against campers who want to eliminate a survivor ASAP. Instead of one 3 minute timer, they have multiple 3 minute timers to get through.
And yet a killer can still be satisfied with a hook trade, as it's another hook score event, and the killer hasn't lost anything, while gaining objective progress. Even at end game, you want a hook trade more than a flat out fresh hook, so you can score more hook events, and keep all of the survivors in the game longer, increasing their chances of being ultimately sacrificed. I've had end-games like this where all survivors made it to the gates, and then through over-altruistic behaviour, 3 of them ended up dead, purely through hook trades.
So I think eliminating hook grabs would be a win-win, and a much more effective 'camping counter' than any of the perk changes they're making in this next update.
The other ideas, no so much. Not only would this kind of change be prone to a multitude of different bugs for each killer, making it unlikely to get through QA, but frankly, depending on the killer, they don't all deserve to have their powers disabled. The only one really is Bubba. Perhaps what's needed is a nerf to Bubba specifically, that turns his chainsaw non-lethal (only 1 health state is taken per hit) within 5m of a hooked survivor and persists for 3s after an unhook.
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That is a horrible suggestion. Nobody should just "take an L" and be camped. I am not playing the game for other peoples enjoyment, I am doing it for myself. Also just because the killer got a hook doesn't mean he earned the right to deny unhooks. This is not healthy for the game, plus with unsafe unhooks at least survivors get that 5s BT, which won't always help. Also if the survivors are that close, just smack them, that is a free hit for you on the unhooker. I really do not understand how you could possibly see that as a bad thing on the killers side :/
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My reasoning behind disabling killer powers as opposed to just a change to Bubba is because it's not just Bubba that can camp well. Trapper can camp Basement, Hag can easily camp hooks from a distance, Nurse can just hit and then blink so fast that she can catch up easily, Blight is also fast enough to catch up, Myers can activate a T3 anytime they want, Billy also has an insta-down, you can Camp with Victor as Twins.
You see what I mean? This is more than just a Bubba issue, this is an issue with killer powers in general. At least that's how I see it.
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Agree on removing hook grabs, the stupid thing never gets validated anyway. I'd rather just have 3 survs rushing towards hook with 2 99'd gates and with BT and bodyblocks on the ready and know it's over than to have the carrot of an unhook grab dangled in front of my face.
But don't disable the killers power when near a hook, that's terrible.
Remove hookgrabs, increase time on hook to 80 seconds. That oughta do it.
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Doesn't solve the issue with Bubba and Hag and Billy, etc, tho. How would you fix that?
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Some killers should be more powerful near hooks than others, this is fine. The increased time on hook would give a much larger window for survivors to get an unhook when the killer wasn't nearby, and if they facecamp, the increased time on hook would punish them much more severely than before.
We could also nerf some of the strongest remaining "facecamp slowdown perks", like DMS and Deadlock that can be used from afar, but honestly DMS isn't as powerful now that Pain Res got nerfed.
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For Trapper and Hag, those are valid uses of their powers, and they have counters in that you can disarm/burn their traps away, or just crouch over Hags.
Blight/Nurse, are countered as you would counter them anyway. Wraith/Spirit too, they're just mobility powers, and you can't stop them from engaging in an objective entirely.
None of those things are actually camping, unless the killer is physically next to the hook. They're just smart uses of their power to quickly pressure survivors. None of these things prevent a rescue attempt.
Myers 99%ing his stalk can be done at any time, and Billy's chainsaw is much more easily countered then Bubbas. Though I suppose Billy could still get the same treatment as Bubba. Myers I'm not so sure. You could mayve prevent him from stalking unhooked survivors for 3s after the hook, but not being able to stalk the rescuer wouldnt be fair. Or maybe he just can't gain evil when he is physically within 5m of the hook.
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Idk, I feel like that just makes things more complicated than they should. We already have killers having powers be disabled around hooked survivors: You can't leave Victor too close, you can't leave Trails of torment near hooks, can't teleport to lockers around hooked survivors as Dredge etc.
This change just applies the same logic to every killer with the added benefit of not screwing over slower killers by actually making them 4.6 when that effect takes place. So it's not like killer powers being disabled is a new thing, this just streamlines it.
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