Legitimate Question: Why couldn't they just improve the grind?

anarchy753

I'm not saying there's not improvements, I'm not saying all their choices were bad, I just simply don't understand why BHVR seems completely enamoured by the Monkey's Paw approach to improving their game.

We made it easier to get all the perks on every character buuuuut it doesn't address the massive problems with the initial grind and catchup for new players, and in fact makes it worse for them. We also force you to return to level 1 bloodwebs every 50 webs which makes the endgame grind worse too!

We added a role incentive boost to bloodpoints buuuuut we took the bloodpoint bonuses that many players use away so you won't actually get any benefit from those incentives over what you were used to, and will barely match it in the best of circumstances. Also you have to play the role you're told to, not the role you currently feel like playing to get it.

We nerfed some of the meta perks buuuuut we uber-buffed other perks to do essentially the exact same thing but better so the actual experience of facing 'new' meta perks will feel identical to the last meta.

We changed the prestige mechanic because it didn't feel rewarding and artificially increased the grind buuuuut we made it take 3 times as many prestiges to collect all the rewards, effectively tripling the current grind for 'completion,' AND we put a price on prestiging while making it non-optional.

Is it really so much to expect just a handful of changes that don't come with an instant sucker punch that undermines the entire purpose the changes had in the first place?

Emeal

Your third point has nothing to do with the Grind.

To your first point, there is no catchup, you can play the game without your crutch perks. I dont use old Dead Hard for instance and im fine.

Second point, You are unhappy unless you play the game in the best of circumstances. Tell us why that is bHVR's fault again?

4th point. yes the 50 000 bps for prestige is bad, stop that bhvr.

Jacoby2041

Why tf did they make prestige cost bp... they say they want to reduce grind but they add a literal paywall every 50 levels you can't avoid. And it's not like before where you can just keep going without prestiging, now you can't get anything else on your character unless you pay more bp for no reason. And then you start back at level 1 where you may very well be unable to get the stuff you want until you level up a bunch more. I guess just get to level 100 so you don't have to prestige anymore nerd!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!!!11111! 🤪

I also find it hilarious that they nerf ds for being a "free escape once the gates are powered" but then otr gets buffed to achieve the same purpose and works when the gates are powered

anarchy753

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3054940#Comment_3054940

3rd point is not to do with the grind, but is still to do with their "look at this improvement with an additional change that completely negates it" trend.

There is absolutely catch up whether you personally like things or not. New players have to collect perks, meta or not, to get their builds. Where veterans are sitting just leveling up the newest character, they have ~30 characters on either side that need 50 levels now instead of 40 just to be at a point where they can choose a perk build on their characters.

It's not about being unhappy when not at the best circumstance, it's about the attitude they've had that we should be grateful for getting more bloodpoints when the same patch is making it that the best circumstances are, at best, neutral compared to pre-patch.

Omputin

It’s so interesting that they say the grind is reduced but then also significantly reduce BP gains, add prestige tax and rise the level needed to unlock teachables. It’s like BHVR wants to say that they addressed the grind without actually addressing it. My theory is that they actually want the game to be as grindy as possible without the players actually quitting because of it.

jesterkind

They did improve the grind.

I'm not convinced that this system is worse for new players. They now have a lot more control over unlocking specific perks, which is the main thing a new player is going to want to do over unlocking everything.

Returning back to level 1 every 50 levels is part of why the grind is reduced, because it becomes incredibly easy to accumulate perk tiers in those first few levels. It might create a weird sort of addon grind where one didn't exist before, but honestly, I am unconvinced that players having less access to higher rarity addons/items/etc is a bad thing? Still, that could be fixed if it is and isn't strictly relevant to the grind that they're tackling.

The BP incentives needed to be taken off those perks, I don't think that's a fair criticism. More could be done to help players with BP gain, but since the grind has improved immensely, taking the BP bonuses off those two perks is at worst a net neutral. Still, I wouldn't mind more avenues for gaining BP- that's just the next step in grind reduction, not a failure of this first step.

Meta perks have nothing to do with the grind.

Trading ten extra bloodwebs for not needing to grind an unknown number that could easily exceed ten just to get the first tier of that perk to show up on every character you want it on is not an increase, it's a normalisation at worst. Effectively it's still a reduction. The Prestige tax is stupid though, that needs to go.

Overall they did improve the grind, a lot. I don't really agree that there's a "one step forward one step back" thing happening here.

Ripley

My guess is BHVR know too well the grind is necessary for player retention.