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When are we going to agree that Trickster is not healthy for the game?
Just because he is a weak killer doesn’t mean he isn’t a problem.
He suffers the same issues as Old Legion did. No counterplay and you will eventually go down if they commit to you. It feels very cheap.
He needs a complete power overhaul imo. I truly think he was the worst addition to the game and It makes me cringe that Devs pushed the All-Kill chapter as much as they did.
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I find myself proxy camping a ton with him if I get a favorable hook. His power is so tile-dependent and his mobility is so bad that it's hard to justify playing a fun way. He's a 110 killer who also isn't really a threat at longer range.
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A weak killer with no counterplay? How's that work?
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No counterplay in the 1v1. Having a 1v1 like that doesn’t automatically make them a good killer by any means.
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I've said this before but it's worth repeating imo
He's a feast or famine killer
His power destroys you in the open or at short loops but is practically useless at the stronger tiles (Which if you ask me is where you need your power the most). A rework to his power would have to address this issue before changing the other aspects imo.
Funnily enough nothing encompasses the problems with his power more than Main Event
Main event when it works is extremely oppressive with the only counterplay being lockers but when it doesn't work (Which is most of the time), you wish you hadn't used it to begin with.
Yeah for a 'ranged killer' , his power is weaker the further away he is, unlike someone like Huntress who's ability is the same strength regardless of range.
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Yeah for a 'ranged killer' , his power is weaker the further away he is, unlike someone like Huntress who's ability is the same strength regardless of range.
All ranged killer are stronger the closer they are to the survivor. its easier to land pointblank hatchets because they become hit scan and require no leading at all. The further the projectile is, the more reaction time the survivor has to juke the hatchet or harpoon spear from slinger.
The only difference between trickster and the other ranged killers is that he requires more consecutive hits to get the injure thus spends more time in throwing mode compare to other ranged killers.
since it takes more time to inflict full health state of damage, your more likely to get LOS broken at longer ranges for longer periods of time with more chances for laceration regression mechanic to hurt you.
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All Kill was a flop.
I’ve been saying this for a while - trickster isn’t even that good, but he can’t be buffed without being op. He’s a “in most cases one side can’t do much” killer, in that at low wall loops survivors just go down, and at high wall loops it’s very difficult to use your power and you’re basically just a 110 killer, but you might eventually get a down in 44 knives. In other words, he’s extremely tile-dependent. And he’s one of the best at camping.
So yeah. I hate going against him and don’t play him because getting downs with him doesn’t feel satisfying. I’d much rather go against a huntress where there is fair counterplay for both sides, even though she’s stronger than him.
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I thought we'd agreed on that one a while ago tbf but I'm glad people are speaking up
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I still think they should have given him a power relating to music. Maybe you could change it to debuff survivors in different ways? Either way, his current power isn't that healthy.
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Yeah I'm aware of the differences between the two
The point is Huntress has a skill ceiling which makes her a threat at most ranges
Trickster just don't have that, he is only good at close range. You can land ranged knives to finish off a survivor's laceration sometimes but there's no way in hell you can fully down someone with knives from that far.
I'm not sure about Slinger, sometimes even if you land a max range shot you can't down the person due to the chain breaking
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With the exception of Trickster's Power, All-Kill was actually a very good chapter. It brought us possibly the best characters lore-wise (Yun-Jin Lee and Trickster have amazing interconnected lore, both in their base stories and Tome lore) which BHVR seem to have tried (and failed) at replicated with Portrait of a Flop. It gave us some wonderful visual designs, with Trickster's design being fantastic and I am fully prepared to die on this hill, and Yun-Jin came to serve and serve she did. The perks are happily sat in the whole "not meta-changing but also not awful" territory, which is better than a lot of chapters actually, and generally it's a good chapter if you ignore Trickster's actual power.
Unfortunately, because of his Power (and lack of a map, God imagine the burned down No-Spin studio as a map) All-Kill can't claim the spot of 2nd best Chapter of Year 4. That has to go to Descend Beyond (but I think we can all agree that out of All-Kill, Binding of Kin, Descend Beyond, and Silent Hill, that the Silent Hill chapter was the best by a long shot).
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Trickster's base lore was pretty bad imo
His tome fixes it though so it's not really an issue
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We are not going to agree.
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I think a problem with changing his power is how much they placed the knife part of his kit deep into his lore. He clearly performs with the knives throughout the animations and lore, and now the problem is how do you make the power fun for both sides without removing that aspect of him? Even if they keep the knives, he really does need some music or stage related power that occurs throughout the match (maybe even passively like Dredge's Nightfall). They could do a lot better with Main Event too (since it is underwhelming for a power that is based on taking advantage of the "hype" before it dies down) and I made a discussion about that once in the feedback category. I've played him enough on both sides to understand the counterplay and occasionally the lack there of that he has. I don't mind the way he is besides thinking that Main Event should be something different. But I certainly think a music related power in his kit would make much more sense and be entertaining for all.
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It seems like BHVR commonly does this.... Make a killer that's mid but if you nerf said killer they become awful and F tier and if you buff them they become S tier and everyone hates them and that leads to a killer stuck in mediocrity for atleast a year or 2 and it seems like they despise reworking killers for some reason
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The counter play to a trickster is to make sure he runs out of knives. Windows are an animation lock however they are some of the greatest things against him due to breaking sight. He really is a death trap when you're in low tiled loops and open areas.
It's basically a mind game to dodge his knives. If you fishtail try going hard one side. Wait at a window to avoid the knife they throw through when you loop.
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Your argument makes absolutely no sense. If a killer commits to someone then the survivor should go down. ######### is this entitlement with ppl that want to outplay everybody despite them being trash. If u really think trickster's 1v1 is overpowered u should consider improving at mechanics such as looping and removing los instead of holding w like a bot. Mfs out here
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depends distances. I think a lot of the time, huntress hit people from 20-30 meters because survivors do not really pay attention, like if you use aura reading perk, let's say nurse calling and you see someone healing 24 meters. you often get the hit 25 meters away with hatchet because survivor doesn't expect the hatchet.
a survivor that is alert and confident in their dodging skills is very unlikely to hit by long distance shots.
With trickster, because he has to hit 6 times to injure someone, your always alert as soon as he hits you once and in practice, volleying a dozen knifes from super far away just slows you down, like 25 meters become like 30 meters and from such long distances, its way too easy to use walls and line of sight blockers to lose laceration stacks.
I'd say effective range of ranged killers is around 8-15 meters for all of them. they're all effective at close-middle range.
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If only I were able to LOS the Trickster with walls, trees or moving from room to room I'd be able to delay the chase. If only these features were present on maps instead of maps just being wide open areas with nothing to hide behind then I could plan to do gens around LOS blockers and weave in and out of trees to slow down my laceration meter. If only...
No, seriously, the Trickster is a far weaker version of the Huntress. The only thing that's unhealthy about the Trickster's power is that the only way to improve it would make the Trickster a complete clone of the Huntress instead of a completely watered down version. There's more than enough ways to slow down the Trickster already to make a chase last a long time. This is an asymmetrical game; if the Killer can't catch a survivor eventually the balance is broken and a survivor can slow down the Trickster enough that gens can get done. The only issue is that the Trickster needs a buff that's hard to do without making the Trickster even more like Huntress.
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He is one of the easiest killers to counter play just find a loop he cant throw over and loop him.
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This ☝️
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"No counterplay" they say about the slow-moving, ranged attack killer that has to hit you multiple times to actually do anything and whose 'hits' fall off if he doesn't keep hitting you constantly, in a game where line-of-sight blocking terrain is never more than a second and a half away, and survivors can instantly duck to get behind cover with zero animation delay.
Yes, this truly is the state of Survivors.
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I really didn’t find their lore that interesting tbh. It’s not bad but it wasn’t anything special. And I never felt like a kpop character like trickster really made sense in dbd. He just doesn’t feel fitting to me.
As for yun-jin, she’s alright, I’ve got nothing against her. But I wouldn’t say her perks are really that useful. They’re not worthless, but there’s much better alternatives imo even if you exclude the meta.
The best part of the chapter for me is NWO, which has become one of my favorite killer perks, and even it wasn’t good in its original form.
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What would you change to make him healthy for the game?
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“…you will eventually go down if they commit to you.”
A survivor should always eventually go down if a killer commits to them. If survivors could literally indefinitely stall a killer in a chase then it would be terrible game design, the whole point of the game is the killers are supposed to be able to eventually catch you if they chase you. You can delay it if you run well but you should be caught at some point.
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:(
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If we stop considering about time it takes to down someone, literal M1 killer with no power would be "no counterplay".
so you mean if survivors can't chase killers for eternity AND escape, it's unhealthy for the game I guess?
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Why should we agree on something that is wrong?
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