Dev Update July 2022 Thoughts
Developer Update | July 2022 - Dead By Daylight
Awesome changes, glad to see it.
Comments
-
Yeah, these all seem terrific! Very smart and informed adjustments - excited to try them all out!
6 -
Definitely agreed, this hit almost all the notes I'd want to see from a PTB feedback angle. A couple other things might need adjustments, but they're the kind of thing that can hit live and be assessed from there.
I'm looking forward to this update even more!
5 -
These are great 🤩
2 -
The only change I wish they made was adding some more prestige awards.
Like maybe giving you the new potrait background if you get a killer/survivor to prestige level 100
Outside of that, these are a lot of great changes
3 -
Yeah getting to P100 is quite the feat, you get the new 100 icon but a background would be the cherry on top. It will take awhile before anyone reaches that and they can always do that in the future.
1 -
Yeah, these changes are all good improvements and it's good to see them actually be implemented before the Mid Chapter patch goes live.
1 -
- bloodlust still easier to get when it should be entirely removed (or at least tiers above the first shouldn't exist), especially with chases being simplified by the basekit buffs already. Higher bloodlust tiers only reward bad killers into getting undeserved hits. Weren't the results of that weekend without bloodlust saying that there were no noticeable changes?
- still no mention on how this patch should help against camping & tunneling, even though according to how it was publicized on the stream and in the first dev note, it was supposed to focus on these 'tactics' too. As I said elsewhere, the 5 second BT won't help if a killer is hard on tunneling someone. And it doesn't help against camping, that is actually encouraged already by the basekit buffs + the longer generator times, as confirmed by @MandyTalk herself
- calm spirit not reverted?? No further changes to DS?
- stacking second chances = bad; stacking slowdowns = good, got it
But keep pretending these problems don't exist
21 -
Bad killers deserve hits too 😀
2 -
Now that Botany Knowledge is nerfed even harder, Circle of Healing and Inner Strength are the only viable self-healing perks in the game. Real nice. They aren’t undoing the Calm Spirit nerfs either, even after large outcry? What is with the devs giving survivors penalties for using perks?
It’s not like I can just decide to turn off Botany Knowledge to self-heal with a found medkit in the middle of a trial. Reminds me of old Camping Aid Kit (brown) - they used to come with less than enough charges to complete a full heal. Are we really going backwards here, devs? Why is my own $*#&#ing perk hindering me?
12 -
Ok, let's apply this logic to bad survivors, who deserve to escape too then
2 -
I know they exist, most of my survivor games are fun and I rarely get situations where someone is tunneled. Even when someone is tunneled, you just play against it, you can make fun out of it if you are playing for fun. I always run BT but never DS, BT is a fun perk, DS isn't very fun. OTR will be the personal BT so that is an improvement. They are making some big changes, and I am of the mindset that this is only the beginning. I have high hopes.
0 -
Of course they do! They do all the time. 🤣 What's the argument here? It's a videogame.
1 -
-Bloodlust serves a purpose and shouldn't be deleted.
-Tunnelling got harder, as hard tunnelling someone off hook is now impossible and five seconds of Endurance + Haste at minimum, without perks makes it more likely a survivor can reach a loop before they're vulnerable. Camping will still need work but it's clear their current focus is on encouraging killers to move, not discouraging them from staying.
-Calm Spirit not being changed is a bit of a bummer but they can't all be winners. DS is fine since it's less needed and has an extremely clear + viable replacement now.
-Not sure what you mean by this point?
It's not all going to be absolutely perfect, but these announced changes are good and the patch overall looks pretty damn decent. It's not the end of balancing for this game, things are still going to be changed moving forward.
2 -
Overall they are great changes. Kudos to them for listening to community feedback.
3 -
Now that you mention it, Calm Spirit is a surprise. Though, I wouldn't use it even if the debuff was gone.
1 -
Yeah, I did kinda expect to see that one get changed. Still, they can't all be winners, I imagine it'll be looked at after the midchapter drops so there's still hope.
1 -
If a killer is regularly getting bloodlust 2 or 3 in a game they're not gonna win. B2 and B3 literally just exist so that if a bad killer is matched against good survivors they can actually get a hook or two. It's really not an issue.
As for camping and tunneling I do agree with you, tunneling was nerfed a little and camping was buffed.
0 -
That's my read of it. Legion and Deathslinger are both going to benefit - though I think Deathslinger probably needs the help a little more than Legion in this regard.
0 -
Yeah that is my assumption. So if you are the last hit in the Legion's chain, you can't use DH. Might be better to just not heal against Legion w/ DH.
Same with Slinger
0 -
not just DH ALL endurance effects if I understand correctly ? and thanatophobia buffed legion S tier now
5 -
Haha, Legion S tier.
1 -
That's not the point. Going down because of bloodlust feels as cheated as not getting a down because of DH for distance
Bloodlust only serves the purpose of handholding bad killers. Tier 1 can help in stronger tiles, like some main buildings, but more than that serves no purpose than to give killers undeserved hits.
Hard tunneling is still possible and easily achievable, survivors will go usually down when they have almost nothing to work with. It's not like they'll go down and after the unhook there will be 5 pallets in any given direction. "without perks": So what you're saying is... We need to bring anti tunneling perks? Speaking of meta shift...
DS is not fine. It's useless. And there is no actual anti tunneling mechanic to counterbalance that nerf.
And the last point speaks for itself. Stacking slowdowns and stacking second chances has always been the issue, that was ALSO pointed out in the first dev note. Now stacking 'second chances' has been nerfed quite a lot with the endurance change and the DS nerf. But stacking slowdowns is still easily achievable. Again, meta shift where?
- I also forgot to add, and read now somewhere, nothing about Thana, or anyway, about 'forever legion' more than Thana itself. The devs really never learn, as if forever Freddy never existed. And it's not legion is some popular killer to go against (unlike popular to play)
3 -
Incorrect. Bloodlust may also help bad killers (though I'm not convinced it actually does, since the time sink to get to tier 3 is still pretty huge), but the function it serves in the game is more than just that. It's also insurance against the map design or loop generation breaking such that there are new infinite loops, and it's part of the game's suite of mechanics that ensure no chase lasts forever- which is necessary because if you run the killer for the entire match, the only person getting to have fun is you. Not your teammates and certainly not the killer. More dynamic trials is good and bloodlust is one of the mechanics that works toward achieving it.
While I do think there's room for buffing the new anti-tunnel mechanic, the fact remains that if the killer waits five seconds, you are no longer being hard tunnelled off hook and you have had agency in getting somewhere else. Maybe it's not enough, but it gives you a chance to either reach a loop or use some of your perks where applicable to evade the killer- that's the entire point of an anti-tunnel measure, after all.
DS is fine. It may be a lot less useful now but since the goal is to not need it to begin with, that's fine. If the new measures absolutely aren't enough, the worst case scenario is you swap DS for OTR, which is now immensely more effective at the job compared even to old DS.
As for stacking slowdowns, most of the slowdowns got nerfed so stacking them isn't really as viable as it used to be. You still easily can and perhaps that's something to look at in future updates, but the end result isn't going to be nearly as damaging as four slowdown perks on live servers or the Endurance stacking on the PTB.
I can't comment on Thana as I have not looked into the numbers, I don't know what the extra 2% slowdown actually translates to. If you've got that information on hand, by all means, let me know.
2 -
of course you are. you're a main killer. i would be excited too. but don't get too excited cause the killer Queues gonna skyrocket. enjoy
1 -
I'm glad they are reviewing the audio levels of some survivors some specific ones iron will was pretty much necessary to play them properly
1 -
very good points. and all these concerns are just laughed at just like the solo survivor is laughed at. i hope killers enjoy their easy matches now and the long queues cause i can tell you a lot of survivors gonna just quit.
0 -
I play solo queue as well and I'm looking forward to having an easier time not needing to rely on teammates for certain things.
Granted, I do main killer, but not exclusively. There's reason to be excited on both sides here.
2 -
Yeah, good counterpoint and I agree with ya.
90 sec * 0.055 = 4.95 sec
Each stack of Than is 4.95 sec
80 sec * 0.05 = 4 sec
Before each stack of Than was 4 sec
Edited: That math is incorrect apparently. Further in will have the correct math.
Post edited by SekiSeki on1 -
Yeah - when I play survivor its almost exclusively solo and I got tired of having to run BT as a courtesy to my teammates as the expense of my very stupid, very ineffective distraction / bamboozling builds
2 -
'undeserved hits' in your opinion. It's not fair when a bad killer is matched with good survivors and can't do anything. You're saying the killer should just run after them and be effortlessly looped and get 0 hits all game? That's what isn't fair. Bloodlust 2 and 3 means he can do something, he's still gonna lose badly, but at least the sting wont be as bad.
4 -
That is a great argument for bloodlust.
0 -
It's perfectly fine for some killers to invalidate some survivor perks. If Legion ignores DH, that's great. Maybe fewer people will use it instead of 3 out of every 4 survivors in every game across all tiers of skill.
3 -
But survivors can't have Slippery Meat or Small Game for Trapper, Freddy, and Hag. Sounds about right.
4 -
Haha, quick on the draw. Yeah, I always thought it was cool to come into the game and see there are perks to help you avoid killers. I remember seeing small game targeting trapper and I thought it was so elaborate. I think it can and should be like that. Trap killers are so sparingly used, I don't see the issue.
Side note, I love the DH change.
0 -
Survivors get 16 perks and killers get 4.
Killer perks should trump survivor perks every single time.
Full stop.
5 -
I need some explanations for the thought process behind some of these changes.
Overcharge -
Why? Why would I want a generator to regress slower than just kicking it Perkless for 12 seconds. Why would I ever use this Perk on its own? I can take Call of Brine and get 200% from the beginning. Sure I can combine Overcharge with Call of Brine but outside of one particular build that focuses on that, what is the point of using Overcharge instead of Call of Brine? Or even *at all* since unless you're pushing people away from this generator in particular it's going to be tapped and the Overcharge skill check is not hard to hit.
Off The Record vs Borrowed Time -
So you've made Off The Record disable when the generators are powered because the reasoning is that its long period of Endurance creates situations where there's nothing the killer can do. But Borrowed Time is right there, giving 15 seconds of Endurance AND 15 seconds of 7% increased movement speed. Leaving Borrowed Time to do what you just kept Off The Record from doing implies that you don't understand that 15 seconds is plenty of time for an end game hooksave to result in the killer not being able to do anything about it.
Is the intention here to cover the very specific instances where someone is on their first hook in the endgame and then gets off of the hook by sheer luck or by using Deliverance?
0 -
Agree with Overcharge. Nerfing the initial regress value to be less regression than a normal kick is a bad decision. But with OTR and BT: BT requires altruism for a far shorter endurance status, compare to OTR giving 80 seconds of endurance to yourself being unhooked - prior to the end game. It will help BT maintain a niche.
0 -
Thats what they have 10 second chance perks for
1 -
Overcharge has always been a low tier perk, they added the regression as a buff. You would use overcharge if you want the hard skill check, similar to why it is used now. You use CoB if you want instant regression. It seems fine where it is with this Dev Update. It is definitely better than it was.
OTR BT
If OTR was throughout the game, it would the end all be all perk. Everyone runs it so no one needs BT. BT can come into play for late game hooks or for those that don't run OTR. It makes sense to have one make up for the short comings of the other.
0 -
Overcharge is useless again now because you may as well just use Call of Brine. Instant 200% vs 200% after 30 seconds -and- being worse than base regression for the first 12 seconds? Why would you ever want to run it?
The secondary effect of CoB is also slightly better than Overcharge at higher MMR as well.
0 -
Disappointing although not as much as I expected so yay I guess? Most nerfed killer perks and IW are still unplayable and the new meta for killer is looking really mundane but at least they toned down most of the overtuned survivor buffs and revised the grind a bit. On that note, I hope that this bloodweb addon rarity revision will be out by the time Wesker comes out because I sure ain't gonna spend one penny into killer bloodwebs until then.
0 -
I don't see why the altruism needs to be a factor, otherwise like i said this only covers the very niche situations where someone unhooks their self from luck or deliverance.
I think they should deactivate when gates are open vs powered because No Way Out combined with Remember Me creates a lot of time for the killer to play around with people without them having DS or OTR available.
0 -
Totally wrong maths.
@jesterkind Thana stacks like all other slowdowns (ex DL) like this:
90 c / (1 - stacks * 0.055) c/s = 115.38 seconds (at 4 stacks) to complete a gen.
My problem is not Thana per se, but the obnoxiously long and boring games legion causes by the sole nature of it's power. Currently, a generator requires 100 seconds to complete with 4 Thana stacks, so the increase is 15 seconds per generator (75 second more total) for a killer that has a very easy time injuring everyone. Pair that now with the time spent mending every single time they use their power, which can be quite frequently in a match. Add that to other slowdown or regression perks perks.
Legion has never been 'fun' to go against, but this is going to take it at a new level, and I honestly don't expect legion players not to use these possible builds just to make the game less painful for their opponents (why would they?)
1 -
Everything good.
0 -
Yeah, Prob. it would be better to just disable botany for med kit heals? So you only get the extra speed for self care and healing others?
0 -
No, they should just remove these stupid nerfs from it and Calm Spirit - period. The definition of a perk: “an advantage or benefit following from a job or situation.” So why are so many survivor perks being turned into something that actually puts the user at a disadvantage? Who in their right mind thought it was ok for Botany to go from giving a 33% medkit efficiency, to not only removing it but adding a 20% medkit penalty to the perk user? The devs are sacrificing perk variety all in the name of shaking the meta - which is still going to result in mostly seeing the same 12 or so perks on each side at the end of the day anyway!
Stop nerfing fine perks out of existence, BHVR!
0 -
Your math is giving me a headache, I guess I am too dumb to understand. If you would, break that down.
90 c / (1 - stacks * 0.055) c/s = 115.38 seconds (at 4 stacks) to complete a gen.
You say 90 charges, gens are 90 seconds not 90 charges. I don't understand.
I'm thinking of it as a survivor holding M1 on the gen for 90 seconds, then it pops. The way Thana reads, gens will be completed 5.5% slower. So why would you consider charges for that calculation? You are only dealing with the seconds unit.
0 -
The people who thought that are the ones who understood that even current Botany with medkits is obscene.
It's not being baselessly nerfed, it's being retooled to an altruistic healing perk. It'll still affect non-medkit self-healing avenues too, so it's far from killing the perk; it's still going to be really good.
0 -
Medkit efficiency should not exist with current medkits, that's that. Medkits should be nerfed but they are not going to be nerfed so they nerfed botany. It is balance, don't use medkits if you are running botany, that's the goal.
Edited:
This is a great solution so people can heal themselves fully with a brown medkit.
0 -
Botany will still be a good perk. Calm spirit on the other hand doesn't need that horrible downside
0
