Why nerf Botany knowledge again?
I do not understand why botany knowledge got nerfed so hard, when it was barely even used in most games. First they took away the efficiency, but at least it got a speed boost to healing in compensation. Now it eats med kits faster, and got nothing in return. If the healing speed was a problem, reduce it, but don’t add a crippling downside to it. It’s calm spirit all over again, add a minor buff, and a huge nerf because hey it’s a wacky meta shake up! For goodness shake remove the downside and slow the healing, or just revert the changes altogether.
Comments
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cuz ######### medkits
they deserve it
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It made medkits heal insanely fast, even with mangled
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I wouldn't surprised if it got nerfed for a similar reason to overcharge.
Stacking.
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But Medkits are still going to be op, just run streetwise and desperate measures with no downsides. Why nerf a niche perk when the item is the problem? It’s classic BHVR, nerf something adjacent to the problem without addressing the problem itself.
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It's wild how they are making perks bad just to change the meta like
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Medkits are the problem, not botany knowledge, as I said in a previous post. They're ignoring the real problem just to say they made perk changes and "shook up the meta" when botany was never meta, medkits were and still are.
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If they really want to nerf medkits so badly, they don't need to nerf an average healing perk to do it. They could've just made it so that the healing speed doesn't apply when you use a medkit, I'd rather have that over reducing medkit efficiency.. but overall I'd rather go back to the old botany. There was nothing wrong with old botany. It wasn't a frequently used perk and now they gutted it.
Imagine using botany and looting a chest to find a brown medkit.. which you can't even fully heal yourself with anymore because of the item efficiency reduction
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people have been complaining that the meta has been the exact same for 5 years
Now people are complaining that their favorite meta perks are being changed
like jfc people, what more do you want
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But overcharge got a net buff, it was just toned down from the ptb. If stacking is the problem why not just add a healing speed cap? I keep saying this, and will again, it's a classic BHVR move to nerf something that wasn't the problem, but just contributed to the problem all the while leaving the problematic thing (medkits) alone.
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I don't understand why Botany Knowledge was touched on in the first place. It was honestly one of those perks that seemed perfectly fine, not OP nor UP. A perfectly serviceable, general perk.
But then it suddenly needed a really weighty buff for some reason?
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I felt like that change was strange as well. Outside of mega-healing builds, I rarely saw Botany. Med-kits are still broken and nerfing Botany didn't change that. It's as OP said, it's ignoring the real issue.
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Making some perks unusable just to get people to use something else Is bad game design just make perks different from one another and open up the option for different play styles
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Who was complaining about botany knowledge? And, when was it ever meta? Beside meme healing speed builds botany is never used, and definitely wont be used for anything else.
As for people wanting changes, you can disagree when the change is bad and just being made for the sake of it. Not everyone was crying for the game to be overhauled like this, or to have their favorite perks butchered. Look at calm spirit, it was never a meta perk, and it got nerfed for a meaningless upside.
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Because they want people use other perks.
It is like taking an inflated balloon out of my hand and giving me a deflated one just out of spite
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Botany was buffed because of the SC nerf. Medkits got out of hand because of botany buff, so that was added as a countermeasure.
I kind of get the SC nerf, it encourages survivors to group more, which makes the game more fun. Everything else just goes together.
Now medkits not being nerfed, I'm not too sure. You'd probably get more lash for nerfing medkits imo, so maybe that's why? This is only the start of the changes, so I look forward to the direction they take.
Edited: Now Calm Spirit just got me, idk dog.
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Thats the route another game I play (For Honor) took and it is the most frustrating god damn thing in existence. Every new character and rework just got stronger than the at-the-time strongest character. While at first we had a wide cast filled with variety we now have a bunch of copy pasted movesets that are just boring to go against and the devs refuse to change that.
Any timeline in that game will have a different meta, but everything has gotten so god damn frustrating that its barely even worth playing anymore. Thats a game where if you play a D tier hero you actually have no chance against an S tier. And the meta has gotten so bad nowadays that characters that were considered S or A tier just 2 years ago, are now in some cases C or even D despite receiving no changes.
It isnt bad game design, having perks that are obviously stronger a step up compared to the much larger pool obviously isnt healthy. Its about time we see something new.
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We don't have a new meta we just have a stronger version of the meta we already had! OTR Is stronger DS and The slow down meta for killers Is now even slower.....
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Medkits are broken and rather than fix the root cause they just want to make healing perks not work well with them
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I really do feel Medkits were the problem. Botany is a tradeoff perk. It's okay being strong because it's not directly responsible for the health state changes. Which is literally how the game is balanced, around the disposal of health states. Medkits should've been hit but I'm thinking we'd hear even more complaining if that where the case.
1 Bottany thread versus a million medkit threads.
You're the martyr :(
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That's all fine and good, but where was botany in that overpowering meta you're talking about? Medkits are still going to be one of if not the strongest things a survivor can bring, nerfing botany didn't change that. Having a change for the sake of it is where you end up in a dumpster fire, because logic be damned, it's different.
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Because healing speed is insane in ptb. No more words
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And guess what, they didn't change the healing speed!
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Medkits but they nerf the perk instead of medkits
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Agreed like if its an issue just revert the change. It wasnt a meta perk before and now its gonna see even less use because you cant bring it in risk that you need to grab a med kit. Like why not just make it the same instance as We'll make it and have the speed not effect you (still a nerf but not as bad) OH right because of self care.
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In what universe was Botany ever meta? People are complaining because every single change has sucked.
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Careful bud they'll add a perk to the next dlc to fix the issue.
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Healing is easier and faster now than it ever has been thanks to CoH. Seems like the devs are acknowledging this and encouraging survivors to dedicate their builds to faster healing.
I'm still looking forward to this change. I love running healing builds and the medkit efficiency hardly puts a scratch on any of them thanks to Built To Last. 50% healing speed increase is going to be HUGE.
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I kinda feel like a bunch of the people saying "med kits" are op haven't realized or even remember the fact that they have already gotten nerfed. Along with the add-ons along with toolboxes and all of their add-ons. I mean holy smokes, are survivors just not allowed to heal at all good lord, I play both sides and never had a problem with people healing, the only issues I have are the amount of camping killers at 4 gens and the amount of killers tunneling at 4 gens. People cry about the most stupidest stuff, got a problem with people healing bring Franklin's, bring thana there are perks to slow it down. People Ned to stop screaming for stuff to get nerfed, you're part of the problem..
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Probably they want to keep meds strong cuz consumable or smth.
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Maybe instead of changing perks that cover for poorly designed core mechanics, people wanted the devs to actually adjust the core gameplay.
Spawns, map layouts, basement still existing, gens being m1 snooze fests, camping/tunneling being the most effective killer strat but least fun for survivors.
Not going to claim to speak for everyone, but fixing things like these is what I wanted. Instead we're just changing the bandaids that cover a fundamentally broken core game.
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Why not just make it not affect medkit speeds? This change is the dumbest ######### ever
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I don't know why the devs have to make everything so complicated! Why do survivor perks now have to have downsides? Why can't a perk just be a perk? If they want to nerf medkits they should just nerf medkits, why would I want to run a perk that's going to eat my item that I spent bp on.
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Uh... you know devs are actually changing base-kit things this time, right? Reduced hit cooldown, increased pallet breaking and gen-kicking speeds, reduced speed boost after getting hit, REDUCED GEN SPEED and small base-kit BT are all going to make some difference, more than the game received in a long time.
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When were medkits nerfed? They have been in a very strong state for a long time. Medkits pure efficiency are what make them so strong, on top of healing you super fast. You can completely kill a killers pressure if you have a medkit. That’s why hit and run and spreading damage, two previously important tools a killer has are basically dead now. If a killer drops chase with a medkit user they are usually at a very large net loss in time, which time management is what killer is all about. I don’t want survivor to be unplayable, but Medkits are way too strong right now, and I think most would agree. My anger is that BHVR targeted Botany, and to a lesser degree self care, when it’s Medkits that are the issue.
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buff disguised as a nerf
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Of course they don't want survivors to heal. They want kills to be easier. Devs said so when they first announced the updates - they said they're not happy with current kill rates, and they're hoping to increase them.
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I'd rather keep the 33% bonuses that Botany Knowledge had. No need to make it 50% speed, no need to add a 20% penalty.
To me, this whole thing was a nerf when they removed the 33% efficiency just so they could add a 17% and offset the Self-Care penalty.
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100% the same the original botany was completely fine this is just destroying a perk I like
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This. Either that OR the (Self) Healing Speed should be capped at a certain amount. So that even if you bring a Green Medkit with Double Speed, Botany Knowledge and CoH, it caps out long before you can reach the insane speed.
Biggest problem I have with this change is that if you want to bring Botany Knowledge to increase your Healing Speed, you will not be able to heal yourself if you grab a brown or green Medkit out of a Chest...
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Agreed. If people means killer mains in this forum
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The thing that bugs me the most is that it is again soloQ that's hit the hardest by the change while swf will hardly notice/is buffed. In soloQ I like to run a Leader and Botany combo to speed resets up when I do find another survivor - and keep a medkit on myself to have that health state ready if I don't find someone; in soloQ you are in that situation quite often. Most often that is a simple brown medkit - and more often than not it's looted from a chest (because which mabiac brings items into soloQ). Sometimes it's a green pharmacy one. (it won't be in the future with how pharmacy has been changed.)
So, what options do I have in soloQ now?
Bring a medkit: a) yellow/purple/addons + botany b) brown/green without botany + desperate measures c) brown/green + botany + self care
Loot a medkit: a) desperate measures b) botany+self care
Self care.
CoH: a) plus a medkit b) plus botany and/or desperate
Any reliable viable option that is not coh (desperate measures can be good but usually its not worth it to count on you and two others being injured to get a decent speed buff) now needs at least two perk slots or a pretty good item. And here I thought they wanted less people to use coh....
In swf on the other hand I really look forward to the We'll make it + Botany combo - maybe even slap Desperate on to go for the full unhook-and-speed-reset thing.
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I dont think a Brown medkit is a problem, its Ranger with 16 charge and speed addon.
I really think items should only have 1 version, which is Brown.
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Survivor mains did too, Nurse, Blight and stacking slowdown as well as NOED made quite a few people mad and wanting a change. I think some over emphasize how much people wanted sweeping changes, but both sides definitely wanted them.
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Browns can still be a problem too. While you really don’t want to use good add ons with brown items you can, and a brown medkit with good add ons can be very strong. Heck a brown medkit with brown charges and speed is still a better choice than any other item that isn’t another medkit, and it’s not even close. Burritos(maps) are memes, toolboxes need a whole build to make them work. Keys can be good with blood amber but aren’t nearly as useful since the nerf. Flashlights are free kills if you have ears and game sense.
The issue with Medkits to me are the just give too much value in the most important aspect of DBD, efficiency. Browns don’t have as much value as the other medkits, but still are crazy strong, and too strong to me.
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It's pretty funny how the flavor text is like
"Basic Botany Knowledge could save your life someday"
And now it activally tries to kill you if you find a brown medkit in a chest
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I have this stupid idea.
Make items only 1 version, heavily nerfed and requires addon at all time to work. However, its free.
Certainly you still can slap in 2 charge addon to have 2 heals. But you know something like Ranger + Speed/Styptic , or Green medkit + charge never be a thing again.
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I don't think you can call botany meta but this is pretty accurate, change is good and these kind of changes point towards the concept the devs want on the perk. Also given the new multiple health states meta coming with endurance buffs I think this is a reasonable change honestly.
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They changed a few numbers but nothing that will change how the game is played. Survivors and killers most effective playstyles remain the same. Well, except there might be more face camping since it got like 3 buffs. It will just be different perks used to achieve the same effects as before.
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They nerfed medkits along with all the add-ons a while ago. They used to be worse
Brown only heals you once, yellow 1 1/2 and green 2 without add-ons. Soo yeah they aren't as op as people think. Bring back all the old medkits and add-ons then you can say they were op..now..no
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They have changed all the add-ons for medkits already....that auto heal used to be instant and the charges used to be higher...so idk why ppl are complaining about them
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