Why nerf Botany knowledge again?
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Don't I know it. Bad enough they already got nerfed before and now they want more nerfs to them
Like they are trying to have survivors items have no use what so ever. That's like taking away from a killer perk that they rely on.
Not every teammate is willing to help or even heal you. I horde my items anyway I don't use them unless I HAVE to. But it's just mind blowing the amount of stuff people whine about on this game.
Fixed Gen speed killers got buffs but wait now med kits are a problem..smh
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They mean Brown medkit can cause problems in the hand of good loopers. As 1 Brown Medkit can save 16sec (1 survivor on heal 16sec instead of 2 survivors). You can multiply to 4 Brown medkit that save 64sec on survivor side. And that can add up with Ranger + other powerful charge/speed.
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I play this game less and less because I don't have an SWF group. Solo Q is going to be hell. Worse than it is now. I can't believe they gutted Botany of all things. I actually use that perk and it helps, but ffs, Solo Q still has a miserable escape rate.
Now DS is gutted and crappy. Like, what did we get? 5 secs built in BT. Killers already camp and tunnel through current BT and DS, but at least that combo could get someone out. Now it will just be a clown show.
Is there anywhere I can see the upcoming changes?
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Holy gees, that bent over a brown medkit. Holy smokes...want us to just spawn on the hook too buddy?
Gees
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I use botany so I can heal others faster not myself. I also run leader so they heal me faster. By healing others faster I improve the chances of my own survival, especially against sloppy and thana.
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If you check my comment history, you will see I lean to Survivor side more because I never play swf.
I just point out perks loadout sometime doesnt matter, if a killer faces one Brown Medkit team, while another killer faces 4 Ranger with Styptic/Syringe.
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Is reduce Medkit efficiency 20%. Means Medkit charge lose 20% (as you can only heal 80 with 16 charge), or speed is 20% slower?
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I use botany knowledge now, but I won’t after the patch. I’ll be using desperate measures.
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Yeah, see there is no point to running it. As others have said, if you pull a brown med kit out of a chest (or a green for that matter), it would be detrimental to run it.
God that's stupid. It was fine how it was.Didn't need a buff or a nerf.
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Agreed, if killers can use only common addons
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Efficiency effects charges so if you find a brown med kit in a chest you won't be able to fully heal yourself if you're running Botany Knowledge.
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Or green (Emergency Medkit), as others previously stated in this thread. Goodbye Botany with a medkit. But at this point, probably just goodbye Botany.
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Noway...
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Yep. We’re going back to 2016 DbD, baby!
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Yes, because I want something I view as a problem because it’s too powerful changed I want survivors to only have 1 health state, and be able to be Mori’d first hook again. Really, quit being hyperbolic and viewing everything in a microcosm. I want the game fun for both sides, and objectively med kits are too strong.
Also Medkits weren’t really nerfed years ago, they were changed. While they healed less they made the heal speeds much faster, especially to the green Medkits. Finally if you advocate for old Syringes or styptics to be back or that the nerf was too much, how about bringing back no hook mori’s?
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Yes, the Meta has been the same but it's not the fact that they are shaking up the Meta that is the issue it's the fact that instead of making other perks actually viable in their respective ways they are nerfing meta perks into the ground and gutting them to make the other crappy perks appear more appealing so they can say they did something to fix things. A change in Meta is always a good and healthy thing but you never change the meta by nerfing the meta you always change the meta by making the less frequently used things just as viable so there is more to choose from not less, that is what balancing is and something the devs of this game struggle with, they reworked 40 perks and in all those reworks all they could think of to make them viable was to nerf the current meta perks which speak volumes to their mentality and way of thinking toward balancing the game. (I'm a day 1 DBD player)
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Umm they did nerf the medkits and the addons..
And there are perks to make people heal slower if it's really THAT big of a problem.
Many perks for making them heal slower and not get much use out of the med kits. It's simple, just because you think it's op doesn't mean that it is. They have perks for a reason, and no the old mori was horrible just as bad as face camping at 5 gens.
Morose were a problem which is why they got changed. Medkits are fine as they are.
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Yeah, honestly. I was fine with the PTB change to Botany, but this is ridiculous. Botany was fine before, it was fine on the PTB, and now it's a weird reverse-old-Self-Care where it's great for healing other people and trash for healing yourself.
This is Calm Spirit all over again, except Botany was a perk that used to actually be decent and now it doesn't work for half of the reasons people brought it. It'll still be fine on my wacky Autodidact build, I guess, but eesh. Cap the max healing speed if medkits are a problem, don't make the perk incompatible with medkits.
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i am sure they will revisit botany when they get rid of medkits i mean balance medkits
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Man it must sucks when you have to dedicate an entire build to something. Like that never happens
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Use your 50% healing speed buff to heal others, not yourself.
It should be *very expensive* to combine Botany Knowledge with Medkits.
This is a good change.
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"Botany Knowledge deactivates whenever you are holding a Medkit"
Wow. I really fried my brain coming up with that one. I think I need to go lay down for a little while.
I don't understand the need to change Botany Knowledge at all. It was one of my favorite survivor perks, as was Pharmacy. Neither one needed to change, neither change is better than the previous iteration. I have never understood their decision making, and I guess I never will.
It's nice to see a few people commenting here use Botany Knowledge and Leader though. We are an endangered species and are about to be exterminated lol
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Item efficiency refers to charge consumption. They basically added a mini Overwhelming Presence effect when you use Botany. Yeah. Remember jokes about Self Care being a killer perk? Bhvr actually took offense with that and wanted to show us how it's actually done and made an example out of BK.
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Nobody asked for BK to be buffed but they had to, because they nerfed self care's healing speed. But they knew a 50% healing and efficiency bonus to medkits would be too much, so they removed the efficiency bonus and gave it efficiency debuff instead. So a perfectly fine perk, had to be double nerfed because of their overnerf to another perk.
Hey at least it will be good with circle of healing.
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My comparison to old Mori’s was to old syringes, both were broken and needed to go.
As for bringing a build to slow healing, good luck with that. You have such limited options and maybe two perks are actually useful to bring without throwing the game to stop Medkits. I went back and checked, Medkits were never nerfed to the degree you suggest, maybe provide some proof that they were so much better and are trash now. Heck, Medkits at base levels have never been nerfed, really just styptics and syringes.
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Been playing as a killer main since just before Clown released and was a survivor main before that. I've never had an issue with Botany Knowledge and even threw it into my healer build for when I do play survivor.
Totally don't get this nerf. The perk is near pointless now.
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Good perks?
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great isn't it, haha 😂
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The change to Tinkerer is something survivor mains have been asking for a long time, too. Devs are listening to both sides.
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Look at how Tinkerer was nerfed relative to the survivor perk nerfs, though. It's still strong and viable. It just doesn't have unlimited utility anymore. But it still gets the job done. It was a deserved and fair nerf, without butchering the perk.
Why couldn't survivors get that?
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Survivors literally got a BUFF to Borrowed Time. Dead Hard, even though weaker, could actually have more value than its old version in certain situations before the new update nerfing it further. DS got weaker, yeah, but survivors got new options like OFF THE RECORD in return, just like Ruin was completely butchered to give room to better, healthier options.
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Do your research right then, Because yes Med kits, and their add-ons WERE both nerfed. i don't know how long ago they were nerfed but they were, it was back when they couldn't decide to do with Flashlights either. and in one patch it was medkits, addons, tool boxes, and addons.
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Because survivors apparently aren't allowed to have strong perks. There is literally no reason for this nerf, they just nerfed Botany for the sake of it.
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So survivors get buffed BT and OTR.. ok. Here's what they lose:
- Spine Chill
- Iron Will
- Self-Care
- Botany Knowledge
- Decisive Strike
- Calm Spirit
- Pharmacy
Seems like a reasonable, fair trade. /s
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If you are not interested in healing others faster then Botany is not a perk you should run. There are other more selfish perk options as well as just using a Medkit by itself.
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You should apply to work for BHVR, if you don’t already.
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they're too scared to nerf medkits outright.
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Truth does not require them to pay me. I have been playing since Oct 2016. I have killed and died thousands of times and see the light.
Healing others is in your best interest and if you do that, they will also heal you.
If you choose to assume everyone will be selfish then you should prepare with the right perks.
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The change triggers me that, I use healing focus build (We'll make it, Botany, Desperate measure with Empathy) that only healing on teammate, which Im always bring a Brown medkit for myself. This change just make me unable to do so.
I dont know why they buff a perk then nerf another aspect that make the perk pointless.
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I don't understand the devs anymore. When the PTB dropped, I thought that the changes were good with a few weird/bad ones here and there.
Now in the dev update they've gone and made a bunch more bad choices and I just don't get it.
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The point of these changes is to encourage synergy in perk choices to enhance the desired effects.
If you are running a heal-focused build and not seeking out healing from others then that is a flaw in your strategy.
What about that item recharging perk instead of We'll Make it? It is redundant to take a perk that only gives fast healing via unhooks as well as Botany.
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Its likely to force players use certain perks than encourage "synergy". Its not about strategy.
Im already use only meme builds that still help my teammates, not useless. I dont know why I should get punished further.
The build is already put myself at risk. As 4 perks are for teammates.
I prefer to have 30% speed and accept no speed buff on medkit. Not like this.
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I just find it funny that BHVR removed most things that have downsides for killers, pretty much everything is just a straight up buff to their power/kit. So what do survivors get? More requirements! Because everyone loves running things that actively hinder you in some way when you use them.
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I hate to rely on streamers/content creators. But Scott Junds streams where he uses and abuses green medkits recently do a better job of explaining why this had to happen than any words can.
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It’s a rare item with enough base charges for one heal, don’t see the problem. All they had to do was disable Botany when using a medkit - just like Autodidact (which I never understood why that is a thing, but that’s another discussion). Instead, a perk now nerfs one’s own item. It is stupid.
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the rarity of an item is irrelevant when discussing balance. And yes if it was just one heal it wouldn’t be the end of the world. The issue is all you have to do is slap on a green addon and now you get two heals. And still have another addon slot to boost your medkit speed even more. Of course, you can still just use bandages along with the green addon to get enough charges for 2 heals. But that still means you’re not running an addon to boost your heal speed. Which will make a difference.
It’s a strange change, I’ll gladly admit that. But it’s nowhere near as stupid as the state of Green Medkits.
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The syringe use to be an instant heal instead of the 16 seconds you have to wait now. Also on toolboxes BnP also use to be instant. They did nerf them but that was because they were completely broken.
P.s. for anyone else reading this BN got nerfed because it make an already really strong thing even more strong. They indirectly buffed medkits with the BN buff and didn't want that to happen so it got a downside. Just bring CoH with BN and get increased healing and let your whole team get fee healing as well.
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Botanny Knowledge was actually buffed. It's only getting it's secondary effect removed to compensate. Now a survivor with CoH + Botanny can pretty much imitate the original 100% CoH, that is not a nerf by a mile.
Pharmacy was also buffed, as it can now work multiple times in a single match. It's quite rare for all the chests in the map be gone before you even get injured once.
Iron Will still does something, depending on where you are the sound of the grunts of pain can be quite faint and harder to hear. It just doesn't remove the information from the game like it used to.
Calm Spirit was a useless perk and it's now a niche perk with a downside. I don't think it needed that downside, but saying you "lost" a perk that wasn't even used isn't remotely true.
DS is less effective but still works. No, survivors didn't "lose it" and now have a perk that does the same thing but better.
Also, DS and OTR weren't the only buffed perks. Light Weight, Lucky Break, Sole Survivor, Distortion, Dejá Vu, No One Left Behind, Dark Sense, Tenacity, Overzealous, Hope, We're Gonna Live Forever and Inner Focus were all BUFFED.
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