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The killer is not your friend
They shouldn't take it easy on you.
This is the only pvp game i've played where the most effective tactics avaiable,that have been in the game since release,approved by devs and not bugs are considered toxic and people even go out of their way to shame players who use them.
Yes I get it,its not fun dying 5 minutes into the game,yeah getting camped is uninteractive but these strategies are what killers need to resort to if they want to find consistent success against good players.(good luck 12 hooking when 2 gens pop after your first down)
When people queue up to play killer,they dont do so to be the plaything of 4 randoms,they want to have fun and win.
To me its mindboggling that after all these years tunneling,camping,slugging are still seen as toxic actions employed by the killer and not simply bad game design.
Making the game a 1 v 3 asap is common sense,why arent killers rewarded for unique hooks?
The counter to camping requires slamming gens and limiting player interaction,against certain killers you may even need to leave someone behind.
I dont know how popular this opinion is but slugging is healthy for the game and i'll die on this hill.
If you find these strategies unfun demand changes to the devs, dont blame the killers for not taking it easy on you
Comments
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I highly disagree. I'm totally everyone's friend and all survivors should come give me a hug 😈
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Do you know how to use search function? There are a million threads already attempting to justify camping and you don't have a unique take.
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I agree, but Mr Puddles will always be my friend
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OH HELL NAH
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Bruh, if I'm killer and you stare at me with those baby eyes, I'll be your friend. I try not to but damn my conscience can't take it. haha
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I can imagine ...
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I agree that it's not toxic and it's not something to blame the killer for, but I wouldn't say that camping and tunnelling are healthy for the game. I think they actively discourage people from playing. It's not the killer's fault that sometimes it's the most efficient tactic though.
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Its not about friend or foe. those are gameflaws making the game only frustating to play as survivor. youre basically hindered on playing this game as designed. So why are strategies like those only available on one side? cause theyre not strategies, theyre flaws.
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Liar.
Myers, Daddy Tentacle, Muscular Triangle Man and Trappi Boi are all my happy sexy fun time friends.
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Meanwhile…
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Neither are survivors. Yet, half of the post sof this forum are about neon Neas being war criminals and hurting feelings because they spam ctrl.
The circle of life.
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No My Demo Puppy needs his head pats or he starts chewing on heads....Give him head pats now he's a good Demo Puppy!
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It's easier to give head pats while on a hook cause you have more height. Thanks for coming to my TED talk
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Its very common for players to attack their opponents (and their teammates) for what is just game play.
I often see the argument that its another person on the other side so you should play nice and you're not an actual killer you don't have to act like one its only a game.
But that's really counter intuitive because you're playing the role of a monster whom resides in a nightmare world, thematically you should be as mean as you can be... in game. You don't have to be but its perfectly ok to be.
Players who take the game too seriously are the ones that can't separate a fantasy game from the real world.
They think that game play is an actual attack on them as a person and they take it very personally. Then they feel justified in abusing other players outside of the game over it... that is genuine toxicity.
I'm not sayin in game 'griefing' doesn't exist but frankly camping, tunneling, slugging, bleeding out aren't it. Neither is BM'ing, flashlight saves, stuns and boil over crews.
There are collections of discussions/replies from regular complainers who really can't seem to separate the fantasy from the reality.
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Because as a killer, you have the flexibility and capability to completely dominate at the start of the game, or completely at the end. You have the choice to create a build around those scenarios.
You getting a kill within 1 gen pop, or even before 1 gen pops is a HUGE and disproportionate advantage, and the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic. As a survivor, you are MEANT to lose the chase eventually if the killer is being stubborn, you can only win the chase truly if the killer decides that by changing their objective (going to a gen or chasing a different survivor).
As a survivor, you CANNOT bounce back from losing a hook state, that is permanently on your 'record' throughout the duration of the game. You getting camped till stage-2, or being immediately downed after unhook, is something that YOU cannot bounce back from. That is your final chance to do the gens and get out. Except you are completely at the whim of what the killer does, and what the survivors HAVE been (or haven't been) doing during the duration of these events. You going immediately onto second-stage on a hook can be completely meaningless to the objective given that survivors have not been working on the objective.
As a killer, you have COMPLETE agency over what happens at your end, you are not relying on anyone else to do this or do that.
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You do you. Until BHVR bans, provides enough discouragement, etc., it's fairplay. For me however, I never take enjoyment out of "CRUSH TEH NOOB LULZ" gameplay. I understand that there are 5 people in each game all trying to have a good time. Four of those people have goals opposed to the last one so there is a basic overall competitive direction.
This, however, doesn't mean that I should feel obligated to mercilessly grind them into dust every game. Nor should I feel obligated to hold thier hand. How you play is up to you.
For me, I have played a lot of tabletop games and board games in my life (moreso perhaps than video games) and I have a certain level of respect for the other players that comes from having to look them in the eyes as you play rather than them being some anonymous gamer tag floating in the void of cyberspace. It brings an understanding that we are all just trying to have some fun and often an escape from life. There is a level of give and take that comes with that, often referred to as the social contract.
I don't expect that players will share my outlook, and if they are there to win at all costs, then I can oblige that style of gameplay, but I prefer a much more relaxed game where we all get something out of it, and win or lose, appreciate the sportsmanship of the opposing side.
But like I said, no one should tell you how you have to play as long as it's within the rules of the game - you do you.
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My jaw dropped when I saw someone on these forums say that it's not on the devs to fix camping/tunneling, we need to tell the players to change their behavior. Like what the hell, you can't shame players into changing how they play. That's wrong for so many reasons. No, this is all on the devs and how they've designed the game, and it needs to be fixed because the best way to win should not be so horribly unfun for the opposing side. That's not fair on your customers.
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Wether i play survivor or killer i play for my objectives. If my objective is escaping then i do what i can to progress that objective, it might be do gens, it might be taking a chase so teammates do something, it might be rescues. As killer it's exactly the same, i do whatever progresses my objective. Tactical options come more into play as killer since you are the 1 vs the 4 so you need to think of a way to disrupt survivors as much as possible.
Camping and tunneling is UNFUN FOR KILLERS ASWELL. I don't wanna sit my ass watch some guy die or force myself to chase the same guy everytime just cause he's the one closer to death. Doing either of those is UNFUN FOR KILLER. Will some people take the easy way? Yeah they will for whatever reason but if every killer does it then you're looking at very very bad game design.
Fortunantly BHVR seems to be listening and buffing killer in ways that makes them not waste as much time or lose as much ground when interacting with the multiple interactions.
Another way to make interactions more frequent and not so much tame consuming would be to adress Map sizes and loop density. I understand that Maps and loops are survivors primary means of defense but Map in general are just so badly designed that even after 6 years damn INFINITE LOOPS STILL EXIST!
Breakable WALLS need to get the hell out of the game cause they cause more infinite loops than they solve and they waste more of killers time than they benefit killers after breaking them.
The best way to promote healthier killer playstyle is to make the necessary changes that allow killers to not think camping and tunneling are the only way to win.
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The killer is not your enemy also. This is only a video game. But I think many people with powerless lifes need to feel powerful, and they need to 4k in this video game
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............
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Mercy has no place within the killer's I face, and that's how I want to keep it
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I think this game would be much better if it wasn't an elimination game. It would be much better if it were simply do gens to power the gates within 12 minutes or everyone dies. The amount of hooks the killer gets slows gens down. You'd still have the killer survivor chase interaction. You'd still have the killer/survivor stop gens action. You could raise the stakes where if you're downed during end game, you're mori-able.
But the worst thing in this game in my opinion is loading into a game and then getting hard tunneled or hard camped out in five minutes. Ending the game with like 4k blood points.
That's my unpopular DBD opinion, but I stand by it. I also think that's why there is such a tit-for-tat in terms of survivors and killers disrespecting each other so hard.
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I hope that kid is photoshopped because he’s underweight as hell
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"the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic."... *Regular gameplay* having an arbitrarily pre-defined concept of how the game should be played and calling anything else toxic is a really bad way to define toxicity.
It basically means anything that doesn't match this pre-defined style is not only invalid but a actual toxic attack on another player. "Regular" DBD play encompasses camping and tunneling they aren't exceptions they are standards of play and used in the same way as looping and chasing, just in game methods to achieve objective.
"As a killer, you have COMPLETE agency over what happens at your end, you are not relying on anyone else to do this or do that."
Your last point, and its pre-given example, are just describing what happens when you have a failure of teamwork. It's 4v1 not 1v1.
Obviously you don't have loss of agency as the killer that's not part of killer gameplay, but loss of agency is one of the core in game mechanics that you are trying to escape from as survivor, it's overcome by teamwork.
When you queue up for a game of DBD as survivor, you are signing into a game that involves non-participation and elimination as the primary threats, and teamwork is required to overcome them. If players find these concepts triggering then DBD may not be the game for them.
There a lots of PVP games where you just endlessly respawn till a points cap/time limit is reached.
I'm glad DBD isn't one of them, because every game would just be a points farm and it would undermine the survival horror theme, which is why I play DBD.
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I'm sure you have never complained about 4 DHs and BNP in a lobby before.
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The Doctor seems very jolly and I am certain that the Clown is looking for drinking buddies.
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But... I want to be their friend :(
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Yes, a pre-defined concept of WHAT a killer and survivor have to do. if you didn't have a pre-defined concept of what should happen within a trial then the game would be a sandbox.
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That's an unfortunate mind-set.
People genuinely wonder why there is so much hostility in this game.
I respect players that try to make the game interesting and unpredictable, even if it is not the most efferent. Those are the players who prioritize fun over winning. I support this, and I want as many players as possible to know it makes matches better for everyone.
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I love dropping the last survivor on hatch for the escape...something euphoric about it.
I'll miss these times when I'll be forced to mori them into oblivion.
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Sure but the only things killers and survivors HAVE to do is repair gens and escape, or catch survivors and sacrifice them. There are a number of ways they can go about that in game and they are all pretty clearly defined.
Lets refer back to your statement...
"You getting a kill within 1 gen pop, or even before 1 gen pops is a HUGE and disproportionate advantage, and the fact that all it takes is complete disengagement to regular gameplay is what makes it toxic"
Define "complete disengagement from regular gameplay"...???
Sounds to me that you are arbitrarily defining what's appropriate in game (or regular gameplay) prior to game start and going in with the expectation that all players should adhere to that definition of pre-defined play.
Your statement isn't about what killer and survivor HAVE to do... its about what you WANT killer and survivor to do and if they don't do what you WANT then somehow that's toxic.
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The way I see it, the only issue I have with killers is them camping me. If killers would stop doing it all together and play the game going after everyone instead of punishing one person and proving they are terrible at playing the killer by doing so. The game would be alot more fun to play.
I don't get how camping really benefits the killer at all and find it a cheap pointless mean tactic to imploy just to punish one person in the match while everyone else gets an easy match cause the killer isn't chasing them or stopping them from doing generators while they are camping that one person.
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I rarely play Killer, but I gotta admit, when I see a Survivor surrender and drop their item in front of me, I do have an automatic, "Awwww 🥺🥺" lol Emotionally manipulative Survivors 😆😂
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Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that. The only option will be to not move at all.
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I beg to differ! Sometimes the killer just wants to hang out around a fire and remember the good old pre-entity days.
But anyway, as far as camping, tunneling and slugging there is a reason why people have been and continue to talk about these things in a negative light. Its because to them its a negative thing. The killers shouldn't see these as legitimate winning strategies. Instead the killer should be incentivized not to do them and have a rewarding reason not to.
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I try hard not to intentionally tunnel but man does matchmaking make it hard. I always seem to get two gold star god tier loopers with full meta builds who can easily run me for 3 gens and two complete morons who unhook before i have time to walk 5 feet and then run right into me. like really, who am i supposed to hit?
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Yeah, I really try not to, but you can only ignore people who constantly leave themselves in the line of fire for so long. I'll sometimes actually plead with them (to my TV, anyway) to get away from me, lol.
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Pyramid Daddy is always my friend even when he's hurting me, especially when he's hurting me. I love when he notices me so much, it hurts worse when he ignores me...
You think I'm not loving every second that he spends with me while I'm on the hook? Watching me carefully, making sure that nobody will take me away from him. He's possessive sure, but it shows that he wants me to writhe, squirm, struggle and scream just as badly as I need him to be close until my very last breath.
In short. He can tunnel and camp me every day.
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Its perfectly fine to feel that way about camping... however,
If I could add a few points for thought.
Someone choosing to camp doesn't make them a bad player, in fact sometimes camping is the best choice of tactic. Knowing when to do so or not takes a bit of game sense.
You can build around hook defence and some killers excel at it, making it often the smarter play when playing certain killers. i.e. insidious bubba, basement shack trapper, 3 gen hag, etc. These builds can pay off big and be a lot of fun to play.
Not everyone who camps is angry, trying to be mean, or out to ruin your fun. Its just part of the game so lightening up about it can do wonders for player interaction.
There is nothing wrong with saying "hey I didn't really enjoy being camped" but that is different from saying "you are trash you camper"
One of these statements could be put to another player for a non-toxic exchange about game outcome, the other is just a toxic attack on another player over a video game.
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To me it does make them bad at playing the killer. Only reason for a killer to camp someone at the end of the day weather u agree with it or not is cause they don't know how to beat survivors the normal way of catching and hooking them. That is why I say that those who camp are either too lazy to play the game it was meant to be played or they don't know how to play as the killer. So there solution is to capture, hook and camp one person just so they can get bloodpoints the easy way for killers without putting in the work to earn them honestly in a match.
Camping is not and should not be part of the game cause it makes the game less fun for those being camped and it shows the killer is a mean disrespectful person who would rather play dirty to win than win honest and fairly.
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Wait till you whip around a corner and trap a survivor, only to look down and discover a Bunny Feng staring up at you with pleading eyes, those quivering floppy ears. Damn near heartbreaking...
...until you remember that was the same Bunny Feng that blinded and t-bagged you earlier in the match, so you proceed to absolutely level her with a satisfied smile.
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Yet when I farm with survivors because I want to get a certain tome challenge done I get nice "+rep cute killer" messages on my profile, but when I just dare to return to a hook because I saw some movement in the bushes its "-reo toxic tunn trash". Once you understand this simple fact its much easier to embrace the salt.
Still, tunneling is quite scummy, so try to keep it to a minimum. I sometimes tunnel an unhooked survivor hard when I'm going for just 8 hooks, zero kills just to scare them and hide my true intentions, though.
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Huh? I didn't know general discussion do not allow duplicated discussions, why mods aren't merging all those countless same posts?
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True to a point, but context matters. Are there are other survs right there immediately doing nothing but waiting for the killer to leave? If so, it's not really camping. Not only that, but the team isn't good. A camp when the team is hookbombing/being overly altruistic is a survivor flaw, not a killer flaw. The team has to give the killer a reason to leave the vicinity of the hook.
Is it in the end game? If so, of course they're going to camp, as the odds of catching and downing any other health survivor else are super slim. Once the gates are powered, anything goes. If they're hooked near an opened or 99'ed gate, camping is the only play.
But if the killer just immediately starts face camping everyone they hook right from the jump regardless of whether or not the rest of the team is working on objectives, then I agree it's probably a no/low skill player desperately clinging to their one kill because they don't feel confident they can get another.
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Survivors who wait for the killer to leave a hook instead of attempting to save the survivor on the hook are people who are only in the match for themselves. Survivors are suppose to help each other and repair generators. If one is just sitting by not doing anything to help the person being hooked and watching them die while the killer camps them are not a team player.
I have had survivors in game run to the hook to save me when a killer is camping it only to stop in their tracks, hide and just wait for me to die on the hook and pretend to try and save me at the last second from the hook to make themselves look good when it's too late to save me while others worked on generators. I hate survivors like that they make me want to leave the match but I stick it out for the bloodpoints.
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You have time (60 seconds for each stage), you don't have to arrive at the hook within 10 seconds. If survs are already within 10 meters of the hook immediately after the hook is complete, that's just poor surv play, flat out. I would argue the only reason for this is either the survs are babies, or they are hook farming. Both survs on the hook and their teammates would do well to remember this (I play almost more surv than killer, so I know how this goes).
If this is you and the killer as they're leaving the hook, you have screwed up:
If a team demonstrates they are all going to just drop what they're doing and beeline for the hook every time, and the killer waits for a few seconds before leaving, that's on the survs. It's like if your're fishing and the fish just throw star throwing themselves out of the water. Why would you cast again? It's noob play to immediately hookbomb.
The inverse of this is hooked survs sending themselves to second stage because their team doesn't immediately start coming when they are hooked. That's a sign of inexperience in the same vein as survs who let go of the gen and run the seconds they hear the terror radius.
If the killer is a true camper, they're not going anywhere regardless. But with most killers, waiting 15-30 seconds will result in the killer leaving the area and allows for a safe unhook. Rushing for hook saves is a rookie mistake and results in a large number of "camping" complaints.
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"the normal way" and there it is yet again the preconceived notion of the way you want to play being right, normal etc thus trumping how anyone else might play.
Normal DBD also involves camping and tunneling its part of the game.
One could argue its becoming more normal because survivors don't know how to outplay it and often get so upset that they make bad decisions thus throwing the game.
You are making assumptions about your opponent based solely on an in game mechanic that you don't like. That's a recipe for upsetting yourself and has nothing to do with your opponent.
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I know right? Camping is my normal way. What is he on about? Some kind of Twilight Zone where running around like a chicken with its head cut off is the norm? Is that the magical land of low mmr?
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DBD is the only horror-themed game I've ever seen where players get angry with the monster (in this case the killers) for killing them instead of taking it easy and being their friend.
The killers represent murderous horror-movie villains. They are not supposed to be nice, they are not supposed to be merciful, they are not supposed to take easy on you and they are not supposed to let you bully and laugh at them. Their objective is to kill you with any means at their disposal, and you can't blame them for doing exactly that. If you want to be a friendly killer, go ahead, but don't expect everyone to do the same.
Sure, you shouldn't be an ######### as a player and mock the people that are losing to you. But making sure you kill them and win? That's simply the killer doing its job. If you think it's unfun to lose this way, blame the game, not the player. A lot of things survivor use against killers aren't fun at all to face either.
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Oh, so by the same logic, I say if you use DS, Dead Hard, Borrowed Time or med-kits, syringes and map offerings it means you're bad at playing survivor, because in the end of the day it's because you don't know how to win without using second chance perks, or how to find others to get healed instead of using an item that gives than a free heal, or how to win in other map instead of the one most favorable for you.
DS, Dead Hard, flashlights, BT, god-pallets, map offerings, green toolboxes, BNP, purple med-kits, syringes and body-blocking to protect survivors are not and should not be part of the game because it makes the game less fun for the killer and it shouls the survivor is a mean disrespectful person who would rather use unbalanced and stressful things to win than win honest and fairly.
It sounds really stupid, doesn't it? It's the same logic you're applying.
Even the best killer players camp, and I can even show you videos of people camping in the highest skill tournaments. Some of the most skilled streamers, like Otzdarva and Dowsey, camp and tunel too. If the killer camps, it means they realized it's the best route to victory, not that they are "bad". There is no rule saying camping is "not normal gameplay" or "dirty" and THE DEVS THEMSELVES confirmed camping and tuneling are legitimate strategies.
And as you can see, a lot of things survivors use and do are unfun for the killer to. Hell, survivors who do gens efficiently and fast are the most unfun thing to face in the game. But guess what, survivors do it to win, and that is fine, just like killers use their strategies to win. No one is a "mean disrespectful person" for not sacrificing their own fun and victory for the fun and victory of the people they are supposed to play against in first place. Stop judging others for your made up rules.
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