I'm a killer main, but...
But after the update I feel like it's kinda too much towards survivors...?
Idk, I might be wrong on this one, we can't really judge it until it hits live, but I can't get rid of this feeling that it's not quite right.
I'm fine with mostly all buffs and nerfs in the 40 perk changes, but the recent rebalance doesn't sit right with me.
I'm KINDA fine with DH change, cuz it would be nice if people tried out something new, instead to sticking to the perk and trying to make it work like a stubborn baby.
Endurance needed to get bonked, it would be way too good if it stacked, but it should be revisited. It was not a good approach, since Legions are going to have a field day with turning off every endurance status.
Also the change that doesn't sit with me THE MOST is the DS.
The ONLY DS problem there was is the free escape during EGC. Why the stun duration nerf? It was perfectly fine, and IMO, could be longer. It's supposed to punish killer, but now it doesn't do crap.
Idk, any other killer player feels like me?
Comments
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DS should be brought back to 5 sec stun and...
I think thats it. Other than that I'm all about new update to bring some love and fair games to M1 killers.
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besides the DS and bloodlust changes, this update really isn't that bad for survivors. not *nearly* as bad as people are making it out to be.
i find the dead hard outcry especially funny because sprint burst and overcome still exist. they are just as strong (arguably stronger) as current DH. neither of those perks were touched during the update and survivors can just move on to using them.
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Do you mean it's too many nerfs towards survivors.
Or
Do you mean it gives to many buffs towards survivors.
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Yeah, i want people to move on to different exhaustions too, it would be amazing if after the changes we would see more variety of them, instead people stubbornly trying to make DH still fix their mistakes
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i don't mean any of those. I mean that some of them were approached wrong.
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Let's wait to see it live after enough players have got time to adapt.
And yes, I would tend to agree for DS, we'll see.
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I agree with you about that, especially on the survivor-side. The perk nerfs and buffs were not approached well at all.
The Self-Care nerf adversely effects solo-queue almost exclusively.
There's a lot of useless buffs that don't improve perks like Calm Spirit, Saboteur, Pharmacy, Sole Survivor, Dark Sense, Overzealous, Hope and No One Left Behind. (Remember that the purpose of this patch was to nerf meta perks and add new meta perks. It fails to do that on all of these buffs).
6 meta survivor perks were nerfed with only 1 survivor perk buffed to meta levels. A lot of those perks were solely used for specific purposes which no other perk does. Take Iron Will, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard and Self Care. No other perk does what those perks do.
With the killer updates, the developers seemed to do exactly what they said they were going to do. They nerfed some meta slowdown perks, however, they buffed other meta slowdown perks.
The same didn't happen for survivors in this patch. A lot of specific use meta perks got nerfed with no perks bumped up to fill those spots.
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I feel like I generally side more with killer problems than survivor problems (although I'm by no means a main), but I think killers got a lot more out of this exchange than survivors did. Endurance stacking was a huge issue that needed to be fixed, but the way they fixed it makes it super easy for killers to burn through it (thanks to built-in BT) and certain killers can ignore Endurance effects completely due to how their powers work. I don't think that was the right way to handle the issue - somebody had made a suggestion about Endurance hits eating a big chunk out of the mend timer, which limited the number of Endurance hits people could take and made prolonged chases harder, but didn't cap it at one. Then you have weird changes like Botany, Pharmacy, and Calm Spirit that make zero sense and are bad for the perks besides, and stuff like Self-Care, DS, and IW that got overnerfed. Add on the numerous basekit killer buffs and I feel like solo queue is going to feel a lot of hurt in a few weeks' time. The basekit survivor buff is good, yes, but it's very easy to circumvent and does nothing for killing the literal need to run second-chance perks as a result.
I'm not sad to see Dead Hard go, and I don't think there was any real way to balance a perk that fundamentally let you become invincible at will (no matter what, it was always going to feel horrible to play against, and it would always be used to reach pallets), but it was nerfed to death too.
In contrast, I think the only killer perk that truly died was Ruin. And Overcharge, but that was more like a perk miscarriage. Dunno if it can die if it never got a chance to live in the first place. Most of the killer meta perks were nerfed in a way that left them still viable, just not absolutely dominant in their fields. Which would have been a way healthier way to approach what happened to the survivor meta.
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When talking about Self Care, ngl it makes me laugh every time.
I WANT this perk dead, i want people to stop using it, and start being productive. Unless they'll find a completely different rework idea.
Me and my friends talked about it and what if it healed you passively (building up your healing bar for like 30% of normal heal speed), like you can do stuff when it's healing you SUPER slow, It would still fit the self-care idea and still would heal
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I think the problem for survivors is that nothing really changed. DS is gone, but OTR came in its place. BT is still there. UB is still there. Those will still be borderline mandatory picks. Only real upset is DH being reined in, which'll probably see it replaced with Lithe or Sprint-burst.
Other than that, and the absolutely WILD buff to Botany Knowledge, there's a lot of flopping about with sub-par perks that doesn't really make any of them particularly usable.
So we go from a meta of one anti-camp, one anti-tunnel, one anti-slug and exhaust to anti-camp, anti-tunnel, anti-slug and exhaust. Nothing really changes.
DS, after the EGC change, honestly should probably just have been baselined. Maybe even giving the killer an indicator, so they know they aren't supposed to touch a specific survivor. It's the most counterplayable perk and probably the best tailored one to dealing with that specific issue.
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How could you want a killer to be stunned longer? That's just insane. With DS, you can down and hook somebody else, and still get DS'd by someone hooked before even that. It doesn't just punish tunnelers, it punishes killers who aren't tunneling.
The stun length was ridiculous, anyway. It was set to that because old Enduring reduced the stun length. They extended to stun to 5 seconds, then removed Enduring's interaction with the DS stun, but didn't remove the new stun length until now. It was never supposed to be 5 seconds.
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Agree DS was over nerfed
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Botany nerf was BS
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Although I'm a soloQ survivor main, I think the DH nerf was needed. Another problem for killers that DEVs need to solve somehow is coordinated SWF. I hope DEVs will implement the announced HUD improvements and rebalance SWF vs SoloQ vs Killers. Other than that I think killers were actually in a good spot and stats prove it, I don't feel any other general buffs were needed.
This update will mostly hit soloQ, it wasn't necessary to nerf self-care, IW nerf is too much, they have to remove the exhaustion part from it, longer gen times will surely make soloQ experience even more miserable, while tunneling and camping are still not solved and camping will be an even more effective strategy now.
I don't use DS, so I can't tell if any changes were needed.
Other changes in this update seem to be ok to me.
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you can see the DS change on youtube, even if you don't play it, to make an opinion. It doesn't sound bad, but once you see that it give you NO time to make distance and most of the killers will catch up to you immediately, makes the change really questionable
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Do you mean the youtube videos that show survivors running in a straight line and actively not trying to evade the killer?
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And it should activate after each unhook.
Killers can still tunnel if they want, but now they have to think twice about it. Even if they don't care and still tunnel, it would still give the unhooked person a fighting chance to do something rather than go right back up on the hook.
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A lot of stuff tends to sound too much on paper compared to in practice on live. As you said, only real way we can know is once it hits live. People will need time to learn and adapt to the changes before it can be decided how good or bad the changes are. However, DS should definitely keep its 5 second stun. 3 seconds is too low.
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When you have teammates run off and leave you injured after a unhook, or go to a gen while hurt and work the gen then watch your teammate run off without healing you, then your realize how important Self-Care is for solo queue. I don't know what it is about solo-queue but teammates just refuse to heal you.
After playing a match or two where you go through the entire match injured because your teammates won't heal you and the medkit you had is out. You realize how important Self-Care is to solo queue.
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The ds stun duration change wasnt a nerf. Ds used to be 3 seconds of stun but because enduring was bugged and made it last for less it got changed to 5s until enduring was fixed. Since one problem got fixed why should the other be fixed aswell? The rest of the changes from the update seem fair tbh. People complained about perks and bhvr gutted them. Should they have done that? Probably not. Is it that much of a tragedy? Probably not.
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They're more like supposed to show the difference in distance you're able to do now, than actively trying to lose killer, cuz if you wanted to lose killer easily, there's a ton of other perks for that.
I'm a killer main, but I play survivor too, and when I do, I play only solo Q. And I still don't bring self care. And I'm still healed up a lot of the times. Medkit, rng from chests, Inner Strength, 9/10 games someone brought a boon. I don't depend on my teammates to heal me. And if by some miracle i'll run out of healing ways (which is basically never), i'm able to stay injured for the rest of the match. Not like matches are that long anyway
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Well update is 100% killer sided. DS nerf is weird they claim that they're trying to fight tunneling but kill the only decent perk against tunneling ?
Current DS is already weak except in EGC killers with mobility can catch up instantly, if anything they should buff it like removing the skillcheck, it's a dead perk at 3 seconds
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I'm a killer main, but I play survivor too, and when I do, I play only solo Q. And I still don't bring self care. And I'm still healed up a lot of the times. Medkit, rng from chests, Inner Strength, 9/10 games someone brought a boon. I don't depend on my teammates to heal me. And if by some miracle i'll run out of healing ways (which is basically never), i'm able to stay injured for the rest of the match. Not like matches are that long anyway
Survivors do not bring CoH 9 out of 10 games, I see it about 1 out of every 3 to 4 games. Also, Inner Strength is worse than Self Care for speed of healing, perk slot efficiency and reliability. I understand, it's hard to understand one side when you play mostly the other side, but what you are saying isn't the normal solo queue experience.
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doubt, killers already tunnel through 12 seconds BT+DS+bodyblocks, don't forget both BT and OTR now desactivate with the same hit which means people will just stop running BT because it's trash, if players stop running BT and DS tunneling is buffed
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cleansing a totem is 12s, inner heals you in 8, Self care needs 32s to heal you, and new self care needs even more. Getting rid of totems will be valuable for your entire team if you know all of their spawns, so no inner isn't worse than self care in any way.
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If you know, you know I was the "DS is the best survivor perk" and always laughed off survivors who pretend it was "overnerfed" because they could not heal or whatever to get their stun. That being said, even I was shocked about how far they went with DS. Until I saw off the record and was like, "oh, so that's why!"
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I’m not a killer main, but I kinda agree. I’m happy that M1 killers got some love (and they definitely needed it) but I really don’t think 5 seconds of endurance is going to address survivor’s concerns regarding tunneling, and if you really want to tunnel as killer then ironically the best play is to immediately hit the survivor off hook to chew through OTR if you notice they have 0 grunts of pain (since that gives it away). And DS is near worthless against several killers now.
I’m fine with gen times being increased but not fine with it indirectly buffing camping since they did not increase hook times to compensate. I’m actually expecting camping and tunneling to become MORE common after this patch. And I’m really not looking forward to it.
I don’t care about DH getting destroyed though. I say good riddance. I never used the perk before and I still won’t use it now.
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In my opinion as someone who plays both roles (lately more Killer) my main concern is they adressed why gen slowdown was meta in a not very good way and didnt adress camping and tunneling in a meaningful way while they nerfed the tools Survivors have against that.
Plus, except OTR and Lightweight, the promised buffs for perks arent anything of note or direct nerfs (Calm Spirit or Pharmacy), most of the changed perks have little use now and will have little use then.
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It's 14 seconds to cleanse a totem and 8 seconds to heal in a locker, which ends up being 22 seconds.
However, everyone always conveniently forgets the time it takes to find a totem, and everyone conveniently forgets about the time it takes to walk to a locker. Both of those together will set you way behind Self-Care on average.
Think about it, if you were extremely lucky and found a totem in 5 seconds (good luck on this), then took about 5 seconds to walk to a locker, then you are already at the exact same speed as Self Care. The second totem will take even longer to find on average.
So either you are using a second perk slot for Small Game or an item slot for a map to find totems fast enough to be as efficient as Self Care.
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The 10 second increase to gen times is significant. Imagine all the times you were walking toward a generator and it finished before you got there. Now imagine you had up to 10 extra seconds. It goes from being a finished generator to nobody working on it. I think this will definitely help killers, especially ones that like to play around with slowdown free loadouts since it will give them that extra buffer.
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