New update is not fine and who agrees reparing gens now is terrible
I never left in the game but i did twice today because it takes forever to bless or make a generator. DBD must change speed of reparing gens to what it was. Better do not update at all. This if not a fine update.
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I want to see solo survival rate after this patch. It was around 35-40% before the patch, I wonder if solo survivors still care to do gens and survive now.
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Yeah, well, luckily for us all, DBD is not only a survivor game, and after playing a survivor-sided game in which a match could last four minutes if all survivors were repairing without minding anything else at all and after struggling a lot, killers finally got some love from the devs. This is balance, genrush can be delayed, giving more time to stop It, and survivors no longer have overpowered tools that encourage a toxic behaviour in the endgame. You are clearly a main survivor who enjoyed having power, but that is not funny for a killer, and a game's aim is to be funny for EVERYONE.
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That is not true Slan. To give survivors such bad power that it is no fun to play. It takes forever to do a gen or bless. That is no fun to play now the benefits are for the killer. I hope they make they do an update to make it as it was or at least the gen speed. I think most players agree doing a gen is no fun. It is the game but when it takes soooooooooo looooooooooooongggggg that is really no fun.
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I dont know, I was doing gens just fine. Other people were doing gens just fine when I was taken out of play.
When you play both sides, you see things for what they really are, and not through the one-sided lens.
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It wasnt survivor sided, it was swf sided. Solo q was nerfed again for what reason?
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Repairing gens has always been an issue. And personally I want to see BHVR make the survivor objective more engaging. I doubt bhvr would ever do anything as game changing as that as they would have to fundamentally change how some perks work and given this update with their perk changes, even some of the most experimental changes they did still kept the perk similar to what it did.
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I wonder how much fun you'll have as Killer when you have to wait like 30 minutes for a lobby because no one wants to play Survivor anymore.
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yes i totaly agree it is no fun as survivor with this update
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did just a game lost again not normal this is really no fun. I am rank 1 player devotion 10 and this update ruin my fun in the game as i feel right now.
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XD I am one of those who actually don't mind waiting if the match is fin and lasts for a while. Also, today I played a match as killer and another one as surv and It took longer to find a surv match than a killer match.
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This 100%.
For some reason, the developers are so afraid of messing with SWF that they continue to nerf solo q into the ground. Why?
In my killer games, I know that I will occasionally encounter a SWF group that is so sweaty it makes the game boring. I accept that these will happen from time to time, and I move on unphased. Why? Because they are so rare.
Survivors have the opposite experience in solo q. Getting a game where your team works together and you are not tunneled/camped ad nauseum is rare. So we almost chase that high because the rest of the games are so toxic and boring.
And now the devs have decided to further imbalance this fundamental issue.
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Potentiality is not an actuality. Basic logic.
Killer queue times have been long, but I have never seen them so terrible that people flee the game *for that reason*.
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Wow the match could be over in 4 minutes if the killer is afk? No way! I bet the killer could win in 4 minutes too if the survivors were all following chase with a flashlight trying to be stupid too.
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1 survivor isn't supposed to be able to do the work of 4. All you can do is play your best and hope your allies are too, and that their best is at least reasonable. Bad teammates in solo is yet another of the millions of layers of rng variables to this game, for better or worse.
Its why i focus on improving more than escaping. If I keep consistently getting better, i'm able to offset more and more of the bad play from teammates... and while it'll never be to the point i can solo carry ever single game, it has been helping my survival rate considerably.
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I've been playing for just under 6 years. For about a year or 2, I had 1-2 friends who would occasionally play. They were driven away by the continued increase in tunneling and camping.
For the longest time I had your perspective. I kept practicing and was routinely in red 1. After the MMR update, I still would go against pretty competent killers and have a pretty good team.
Within the past few months, that has all changed. Every single game....for months...has been camping and tunneling. All of them. I was looking forward to this update as a way to hopefully balance just how insanely boring and punishing it was to play as a survivor.
Yet my experience since the patch has dropped has only confirmed that things have become worse. More camping, more tunneling, because killers have more time to do so!
Will it take some time to adjust to a new meta? Sure.
Will the game start to balance out? Who knows?
Psychologically, when you have trained people to be rewarded for doing certain behaviors, and you do not fix that reward system, then why stop? Why should killers not tunnel and camp? Used to, it was because other survivors would rush gens and you would be lucky to get a 2k/2e (which the devs used to say was the balance, but no longer).
Instead, killers whined and complained and devs listened. So now, they continue to be rewarded for behavior that is punishing to survivors, with zero drawbacks. Is 3k/1e the new balance goal for the devs? If so, we hit that mark weeks ago when they released their data. That was before the patch.
So that leaves us with this: devs want most games to be 4k. They want killers to get high off of the bloodlust of killing everyone in their sight. They want survivors to, for some reason, masochistically continue to suffer after a million and one nerfs over the years in the hopes that...oh....maybe in one in ten games you can escape.
How is that good for the longevity of the game?
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Yeah, well, it depended on survivors before. The time the match lasted depended on how much did they want to repair and how good they were in chase so the killer would be entertained and lured to a part of the map in which there was nothing. Now, with the extra time, the killer has a bigger and fairer chance to apply pressure and stop compulsive repairs. And you do not need to be afk to suffer that. I have had experiences with this type of survivors, and a match that is lost after a minute is not fin anymore. It seems like you are a main surv, so if you had played killer more often, you would have seen this with your own eyes.
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OR:
Survivor side has too many exploitable abilities with coordination that make it impossible to balance, with absolutely zero downside or penalty. On top of that, more and more killer strategies keep getting gimped to the point that the dreaded T&C are mathematically their most viable play by a large margin when the situation presents, with rng sometimes forcing their hand. The devs keep doubling down on the chaotic variables in the game trying to balance one another with averages instead of actually putting thought and consideration into their changes and design philosophies, and its only frustrating all parties involved the more time goes on. Every game is inherently going to be unfair and potentially unwinnable with the sheer amount of free radicals that can completely break games in one direction or the other.
Its not a killer or survivor issue, its a game design one. There is a lot of decay that needs to be excised asap, and people are constantly fighting over the symptoms while ignoring the causes.
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Do you have some ideas on how working on gens can be made more engaging? I like the thought of it, but would love to hear what it could look like.
I don't mind the extra 10 seconds for a gen. I have only played 1 killer game and a few survivor games and I would say the games go longer and less snowballing from killer and less gen-rushing from survivors.
So far this update is a thumbs up and moving at least in the right direction.
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That's just wrong, i literally find lobby as a killer in 13 seconds, I counted how much it takes, and it was never longer than that
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In many ways I agree with this. A lot of people have commented about the fact that it is trying to balance around SWF that is the true issue.
But again, when I play killer, I run up against SWF occasionally. Knowing that a small section of my games are going to be against toxic survivors that make it very difficult to do anything is just a part of the game. Why? Because, as killer, most of the games are not like that. It is how I used to approach the old camping and tunneling: meh, next game.
Nerfing solo q repeatedly, while acquiescing to killer's frustrations against SWF, means that yes, survivors as a whole (because most do not run 4man SWF) have seen an increase in toxicity.
Why can killers not just accept that some games will be bad and move on? Why do they need to kill 4k every. single. game?
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Having survivors needing to collect things around the map in order to repair gens. Gens get repaired in chunks at a time where a survivor sits down and adds the item to the gen. Survivors would have to play around the killer more trying to get their objective done.
I'm going to say this is the perfect solution, but at least in my opinion a problem this game has is survivors don't really put themselves into dangerous situations to complete their objective which leads to complaints about gens being boring to fix.
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because you can't know if you're going against that beforehand, and you don't find out until its too late to change your playstyle or mentality. Many killers sweat the first survivor out asap then start playing more chill if theyre ahead in the 3v1. Its a lot more fun to play for hooks than kills, but if you do get a sweat squad they're going to do the most damage at the start, so starting chill and turning up the heat will always be a losing strategy in that case. I've said in other topics that the biggest issue with the game is that survivors are far too strong at the start, while being too weak at the end in its natural progression: the more survivors die, the harsher the efficiency cap on the remaining ones. They're encouraged to get as much damage as possible done early while the killer's advantage normalizes and then grows in proportion to each interaction and wasted resource. People have developed a lot of different playstyles to help offset this, and it was one of the biggest arguments for slowdown builds... Instead they just butchered all the builds and tactics except for camping and tunneling, and slugging to an extent.
One of the strongest arguments for being able to see SWF has been so that killers can decide if they need to force that advantage as early as possible in order to be viable. If they feel cornered right off the bat with every single match, they're going to try to be as efficient as possible regardless of how it affects other people's games. Just like how if a bubba is facecamping i'm not moving away from that generator until he at least leaves kindred's aura range. It becomes the smartest move when the alternative is straight up counterproductive.
Oh its also worth noting on the above efficiency shift observation, I think that survivors should be weaker than they are at the start of the game, but stronger than they are after teammates die. just to avoid any confusion.
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I like it. I like it a lot!
Bringing other interactive objects and interactions into the game would be a boon. Pun intended.
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Tbh i think they just need to increase gen times more, BUT make it more involved than just occasional skill checks. like make it so you have to play a ddr minigame made out of falling dwight faces or something. The fact that skillcheck frequencies are random but all you do outside of them is hold a button and stare at a progress bar is like you're waiting for windows to finish starting up.
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I can agree with this:
let killers see which survivors are in a group.
Or, I have seen other people offer up these ideas:
allow voice coms
create a chat wheel with basic chat commands ("I am going for the unhook" / "I am finishing a gen") etc.
I do agree with you that the "winning" strategy for a killer is to try hard and sweat at first. However, I never do this and I still "win" the majority of my games.
The question becomes: how do you define "winning" for a killer? Like I said earlier, it used to be that 2e/2k was the draw. With survivors being so powerful back then, this made killers feel like they were doing very little.
Now, from the data that the devs have shared, we see that 3k/1e is the norm. This takes into account games with SWF because it is an average.
So then we go back to your point about trying to balance against so many variables. What we have seen is that they have taken a very specific approach: balance for the top tier games, focus upon reducing survivor power because of SWF, empower killers. This has been going on for years.
None of it, as you say, solves the underlying issue. At this point I wonder if the devs even care to do so?
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Thats actually old data with the 3k/1e thing, they stated recently that kills were *below expectation* without elaborating further or giving updated numbers, so old data like that is in need of update and re-evaluation. In terms of their approach, I disagree completely: the game is at its worst with highest and lowest skill levels. Survivors do disproportionately well when both skilled and organized, and killers do disproportionately well when survivors are neither. The way they handle exploits and other unintended situations is evidence of this, with many forced lose/lose situations for killer side being a staple of bully squads, while unorganized/unskilled survivors might not even finish a single gen before getting 4 man slugged or similar loss scenarios. The devs are 100% ok with how much power good swfs can have, they even infamously defended old OoO because "the person running it usually dies" despite the fact they turned themselves into a walking UAV for their team for the entire match.
I think the game is, like all lazy rng infatuated design, balanced for the middle. It is always unfair to one side or another, and often unfair to both sides at varying degrees with every single match. If you actually start to put well formulated design decisions into the equation, it literally has less balance direction than a game like Mario Party.
gotta say tho, its refreshing to have level headed discussion about this type of stuff, helps fend off some of the nihilism that comes naturally with discussing a lot of decisions in this game.
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Use a toolbox. Thats why you have it. Not everything has to be med-kits.
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I have thinking about this old gen speed back and an extra generator. If they want to make it difficult for survivor. But i really do not like the game since the update. Please developers do something about this and everyone who agrees with me sent a complain in dbd I did it myself let developers now you do not like the change. I also make a poll. Please only fill in by survivors because people liked the new way. and that i really cannot believe. Thank you guys for support This must change quikly or i loose interest in dbd . The game i play every day. WHY THIS STUPID UPDATE......................
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Probably because SWF are the majority and maybe because they were bleeding killers.
I'm guessing the next step is to improve solo queue.
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How are SWF thr majority? I have been playing killer for years and rarely encounter it
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i played a game as killer. dead hard is dead what a stupid update
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Barely noticed it with Prove your rush to be fair
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Bless keep lasting same time
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I will play surv and get my juicy 100% bonus
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No need to be afk we can show u videos of streamers where all gens last 4 mins and if survivors wouldnt be hyper altruistic the killer would have 1k only
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as i said the problem wasn't the genspeed itself, but the lack of a secondary object for survivors... i found survivor gamplay boring for the simple fact that you have to waste 80 (now 90 so it's even more boring) seconds on a gen, without interacting with possible new objectives to do (idk something like that you must find and install a component on a generator in order to keep going with the repairs... obviously the killer coudn't regress the gen over a certain % if a component was already installed...)
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Yea I personally believe they are NOT the majority. I don’t count 2 man SWF’s as a true SWF group.
I wish we could see the stats & end the debate once and for all.
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Only if that happens, I think most killer players would love to play survivor games with instant que time.
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I just want to say as someone who remembers infinite loop nonsense back in 2016 - this patch is wonderful. I thought this patch would be a huge buff to survivor but in reality it has brought balance to the game. Much like the Jedi in star wars the survivor crowd was not ready to accept that "balancing the game" meant making it more fair to killer.
From the devs statistics years ago we learned that 75% of all games include SWF. About 50% of people are in a 2 man swf and something like 8% of players are in a 4 man SWF so the remainder is for 3 man games.
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They are a group, technically.
I don't know how it is today, but mid 2020 I've measured my lobbies (I had a program to easily make friends connections for that express purpose)
SWF4 : 20%
SWF3 : 40%
SWF2 x 2 : 10%
SWF2 + solos x 2 : 10%
Solos x 4 : 6%
The rest was undetermined.
edit: This was from 30 lobbies during the night, so it's worth what it's worth. A hint, nothing more.
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The problem is not the killers getting buffed,is the lack of inormation soloq has.
And lets be honest,there will be never anything you can do when you get a potato survivor in soloq.
No matter how strong or weak killer is,you will always be a disatvantage in soloq because of this,you cant fix the way your teammates play.
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There won’t be solo survs to improve
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Simple solution that extend Gen time but also soften tunneling:
Gen required to be done = Survivors alive + 2.
4 survivors have to repair 6 Gens.
2 survivors left alive only need 4 Gens
1 survivor left still have the Hatch, EGC game
If a survivor dies at 5 Gen done, which is 3 survivor left and Gen required is 5. The Gates are powered.
This at least makes Killers either last hook a survivor and power the Gates, or they slug and try to get more hook.
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The problem he tries to balance with the teams except that nerf the survivors to nerf the teams > big nerf pu, at the moment the pu is suffering and many will stop the game knowing that you have more pu players than team players.
With the teams this game is impossible to balance so they have to be cleared once and for all, do the survivors in play have communication systems between them? no, therefore reason for + to clear the teams which use a vocal (vocal = big cheat, cheat = bannishement).
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Swf did not receive a nerf at all this patch except now they must repair for longer. Which is not problem at all with coordinated teams. With all the power creep this patch has given killer add ons in soloq matches, I'm all but convinced the soloq player base count will drop off significantly.
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They need to just nerf high MMR SWFs. Surely they can make a system to detect if players are high MMR and in a group. Then apply penalties.
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MMR isn't accurate. All that would accomplish is making the job of killer easier and would have consequences for solos.
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don't know what people are talking about survivors are still playing,que times for survivor take up to 10 to 15 mins and they have the 100% bonus but with killer que time it instant...
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Would you be willing to trade gen time for loss of chances? Like dropping gens by X seconds but now survivors die on the 2nd hook not the third.
Or maybe lower gen times but there are also other objectives that need to be also done?
It sucks the gens are boring to do but at speeds, they could be done and still can in some ways just make some killers, builds, or maps next to unplayable unless you only wanted to play super sweat then every survivor would just complain about that.
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I agree that solo queue needs buffs but that is not the only problem with this patch. The bloodlust buff, gen speed increase and faster pallet breaking are all band aid fixes that should have never been implemented. Instead they should have attempted to buff M1 killers to make their playstyles more rewarding and of course they should have nerfed dead hard.
The problem now is that killers can simply brute force their way to a win easily without it requiring any semblance of skill.
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