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Has anyone else noticed that the survivor end game nerf has backfired?
So one of the many ways survivors were nerfed and put at a disadvantage in the patch was disabling OTR & DS during end game ensuring they had 0 hope after the last gen popped, but before the patch I found survivors used to try and go for the save in the hope of say DS, but now if there's someone on hook during end game everyone just leaves and doesn't attempt to save at all? Usually pre patch there was sometimes a snowball where 1k turns into a 3k for example but doesn't seem to happen now. Probs a good thing.
Or maybe it's because the game just takes SO much longer now people just want a break and fresh round sooner?
Just me or has anyone else had a miracle yet and been lucky enough to get to end game solo q and noticed this?
Comments
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all the endgame saves are just as possible as they were before, they just require more strategy and less brute force. We've kept our cake, its just not as easy to eat now.
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They're really not "just as possible" though if you get hooked after the last gen pops, you're as good as dead in solo queue.
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because the save requires finess now instead of just having everyone congo line swarm the hook. I make saves in egc and sometimes i die trying, its not impossible in either direction.
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It's rarely worth the effort due to how much easier it is to camp with all the killer buffs and how they now know there's no DS or OTR to deal with, so that makes them highly motivated to go after the newly rescued person. The devs are terrified to address tunneling and camping and are more concerned with balancing the experience around The Killer's perspective. Every change has always been about this and rarely, if ever, from the Survivor experience. The motivation to deactivate DS and OTR was to make getting kills easier and pretty much guaranteed, the very outcome they declared they didn't want in reverse. DS didn't guarantee escapes, but the poor hopeless killers that ran into a Survivor with DS at the exit gate are oppressed victims with no remedy to the DS abusers. That Survivor got a free underserved escape all because of a perk. Meanwhile, that poor Survivor who was tunneled and hit after five seconds deserves to die and has no remedy because The Killer is entitled to that kill when the gates are powered.
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Well if survivors would complain as much as killers they could get some changes too to help if they're tunneled or camped.
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we're trying but that's an impossible task :/
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Yeah this forum is very killer biased.
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and how is that "finesse" reached in your opinion? Cause I might be missing sth here but I always thought the key was coordination. Which is non-existent in soloQ.
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I see people saying that but all I see is survivor mains complaining.
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As others have pointed out, this forum is killer biased, and I guess some survivor players or mains are embarrassed to post their thoughts. Being a survivor main is a bad thing here, so this discourages posts since often honest feedback gets drowned out by killer players harassing or criticizing someone for their thoughts.
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Plus once the Exit Gates are powered both DS and OTR cant trigger.
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Making DS disable In egc has made the matches less fun trying to get saves and that fight towards the end was always fun
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And when they do complain as other user pointed out this is result. I still seen lot more killer complains before patch but now most are happy as they got what they wanted. Killers is now the stronger role.
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Problem 1. Many people don't run BT, now they would rather be greedy and run OTR because nobody runs BT. It's a weird circular loop but unless you have 2 BT people on your team(you don't want just 1 in case that surv gets hooked). Without BT you don't really have any hope of getting the survivor off hook outside of bodyblocking
Problem 2. Dead Hard is dead. Before you could use it extremely well in a body block swarm to get just enough distance to get in front of your friend or behind them or whatever you needed to do in order to maximize the bodyblock chain and erase any positioning mistakes
Problem 3. No DS means the person on hook HAS to run they can no longer turn around and also contribute to the bodyblock chain because "lol the gates are 99'd as long as someone opens it I can crawl out in 60 seconds" is not longer a thing.
It was beyond silly that the person who just got unhooked was encouraged to then turn around and bodyblock for their rescuer because they were the strongest survivor in the past(BT effect + DS). In the old world you WANTED the killer to hit the survivor who was just unhooked and down them.
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Probably you got an huge coincidence or just played only a couple of games and noticed that.
Saves in the end-game are pretty fine in my opinion: NOED is no more a big problem, No one left behind and Hope are fine now (even if they're useless for the entire match), the new base kit BT gives you time enough to bodyblock (obviously depends to the type of killer).
They did a good choice disabling OTR and DS at the end of the match... it could be almost impossible to get a kill camping the last hooked person.
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they were the brute force method that got removed, as mentioned. Finesse means actually distracting and body blocking properly instead of just swarming the hook and getting carried out the exit by a series of blade wipes and sprint bursts ending in a 45 second crawl out the gate while the killer tried to wait out DS. If you don't know how to get an endgame save with solos then just take your win and leave instead.
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Distracting requires the Killer to allow himself to be distracted he is not a NPC with an aggro table, right now with 2 free SBFL stacks the most you can achieve is a trade because you can swing again after the unhook animation has ended so at most you can get a trade which puts you in the same position you were, Exit Gates powered and someone on a hook, you can try to save again but against a good, patient Killer youll get another trade, eventually someone will have to die.
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Free escape = bad. Free kill = good.
OK.
It's not a free escape. The trade is always possible. Especially, when someone has already been sacrificed, the chance goes up by a lot. It's a situation that could be contested by both parties, as long as survivors had the band-aid fixes for game design flaws.
It's not like camping and tunneling are disabled in endgame. Just the survivor tools to deal with them.
BUT the killer has nothing else to do... AND? Nobody is saying they shouldn't camp and tunnel in endgame. Just that the situation should be BALANCED and not a free meal.
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I firmly believe BT is a much better choice to take than OTR, especially in a swf, because it allows much more freedom during end game
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I still go for the endgame unhook unless i have an escape daily. I dgaf if I die, especially if if was a good team mate that doesn't deserve to die
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I don’t think you can use soloq as a reason that those saves are impossible when talking about balance. Cordinated team can still easily get those saves.
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How did that backfire? Thats exactly what its supposed to do.
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Yes, it’s a good removing one of the most enjoyable thing in this game
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Endgames are 50-50 in my experience playing survivor these past few days.
The NOED change actually makes it exciting to look for the hex totem, so I've had a couple of games where the team goes on a search for it to try and rescue the last survivor hooked, especially on smaller maps. (You probably won't see us doing that in Red Forest). This is something that I never did before the update.
But if the team is mostly injured or one hook away from dying, we generally leave. I nearly always play with one friend and two solo q, and if I'm in the situation in endgame where I'm hooked and camped (which is valid, the killer has no objective left and has every right to secure their kill, especially if it's the first) I just tell my friend to leave me. He'll gesture to the solo qs to leave as well and get as many escapes as possible. There's no sense in trading one death for another or risk major snowballing.
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Are you really? If someone has BT you have a 15 second 7% speedboost, doesn't get disabled if they hit you off hook either.
I also run No One Left Behind, that's a 14% speedboost.
Did you know that unhooks after gates are powered are worth 1500, and unhooks after gates are open give another 2000 points? A single safe unhook after gates are powered with No One Left Behind is worth 8000 altruism points. Crazy.
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As I said before the update, unless the killer has no functioning braincell and hooks the survivor next to the exit gate, going down after the last gen pops is a death sentence. I understand the frustration of not being able to do anything about DS in the endgame, but now there isn't even a point to trying.
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Not everyone can be saved.
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I think it's a good thing.
Kill rates would no longer be inflated by overaltruism. They would better reflect the killer's skill and less of the team's failed coordination efforts after the killer has already "lost."
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Now, we just have to wait for the survivors to stop throwing, to tackle the "Boring. Next match..." kill rate inflation.
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While that is truet that nothing has changed for swf, i think its completly valid to use solo q as a reason in a thread about experience in solo q. (if you care to read the last sentence of the op too).
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Yeah well kill rates are being inflated now by the constant solo queue DC’s and people killing themselves instead to make up for it
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I'm aware. That's what I was referring to when I said "Now, we just have to wait for the survivors to stop throwing, to tackle the "Boring. Next match..." kill rate inflation."
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I get saved and still do saves during end game all the time so no I haven't noticed this. In addition basekit BT has made saving near the gate easier so that's nice.
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Nah. It's roughly the same as before... luck + Skill = escape.
Just had a game solo with 3 other solo's, we kept getting a person of the hook with a camping bubba on all gens done, but it always meant someone is going to get hooked in this specific scenario.
The new update actually helps tackle campers. I actually think in endgame the killer has been nerfed overall, as endurances are still being applied when 5 gens are done. Just need to keep the gate 99nd rather than open.
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then play around it, do the best you can, and be happy when it does work out. How can anyone play this game without acknowledging you will lose games you should win? Its like a daily affirmation to some people but posts like this act like there's no such thing as counterplay unless it works every single time. You're playing the wrong game for that mindset.
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I've been running no one left behind, and my god i love it for endgame saves, it honestly makes a difference knowing where everyone is after the last gen pops
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Yes because overcharge, Freddy,deathslinger,ruin rework never happened right.
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Yes but the question of "Is it worth it?" Matters. Going for end game saves has always been risky. With NOED, blood warden, and EGG, combined with no longer any gen pressure, snowballing has always been risky. While some killers the risk is really too high, others can generally be done. Now however, knowing that DS does not exist, combined with the shorter M1 attacks, you have to wonder if its worth it. Maybe some players don't care if they escape and are happy to die to save a teammate. But I think most players want to save their teammate without dying in the process. If survivors as a general group decide that the risk is to high, you've just killed a massive part of the end game aspect of DBD matches.
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If you don't think its worth it, then leave. why some people refuse to take the W is beyond me.
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We went from being able to reliably escape if the killer chased us last, to reliably dead if the killer chased us last. You need at least 2-3 non brain dead survivors to escape once the killer gets you in the end game.
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Playing well to get to EGC and using DS to escape a bad killer who couldnt kill you sooner UNHEALTHY. Playing bad all match and using NOED to get free kills HEALTHY. Makes sense.
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How is that a bad thing? endgame saves are supposed to be extremely risky, all they did was remove the braindead easy method. Obviously this isn't about demanding the 4k or any other extreme mindset either, considering its about securing a 1st or 2nd kill at worst. The riskiness of situations like that is supposed to be half the appeal, so if that doesn't appeal to you, then take your 5k survival points and head off to the next game.
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I have died 3 times since the patch, with not a single other person hooked, but because the killer managed to finally catch me and just body block me off hook because he knows I don't have DS or OTR. So when you ask me how is it a bad thing that killers can without question kill one person if they choose no matter what, I ask you why bother queuing up for a game at all.
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sure. "how is it a bad thing" considering your cherry picked worst case scenario is not the same as what many other players, myself included, experience regularly? There are always going to be times where you will have little to no chance of winning a given situation, and like i said, this is the wrong game to have the mindset you will win every time you do the right play. If your salt comes from other people unwilling to save you, thats even more self serving and less about balance.
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You have about a 90% chance to die if you are hooked in the end game and the killer tunnels you. It has gotten to a point that people at my MMR don't even bother anymore. What mindset? That killer is 10 times easier than survivor right now? Pretty sure most of the community has eyes my friend.
My salt comes from people who try to gaslight others when they know there is a problem but they are okay with it.
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cool made up statistic. even then, still not 100%, so you're mixing up possible and probable. The mindset you should have is that you do your best and move on to the next one, not whine about "why bother" because you had situations that didnt go your way. Every time someone ragequits on first hook, they're just echoing your mindset, and ruining the game for the other 4 players in the process. The rest of us try to do the best we can in bad situations, and we often make something more of them. You're so obsessed with worst case scenarios you basically cater to them, which never gives you room to improve.
Also nice completely random accusation of gaslighting just because my argument is basically stop being entitled. You could have taken the time learning how to loop better but you decided this argument is more important.
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The issue was that DS created situations where a survivor could basically be unkillable at endgame, which allowed a lot of taunting and gloating with zero the killer could do.
OTR was about to be the same thing.
Survivors have become too accustomed to 'gates are open = I win'.
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So when developers balance the game they should just ignore worst case scenarios that turn up literally once just about every game? Do you see what you are typing?
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Because the optimal way to play DBD is not always the most fun, in fact I would say its usually not.
If people made all their choices based on what gave them the best chance of winning, that result in very stale and predicable boring gameplay. It is the unpredictability based on risk that makes games interesting to begin with. However you cannot expect people to throw matches. If the risk is simply to high they will not bother. I don't know if these changes make the end game too much of a risk, we will just have to wait and see, but if this the trend for DBD, I personally don't think that's good, the same for any game.
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Yes, because they ignore the worst case scenarios in almost every situation to begin with. The game is balanced around averages through chaos, there are an absurd number of variables in every single match. You need to adapt to the situations and take the ones you can, while being willing to let go the ones you can't. I'm explaining how they work on their game, it has absolutely nothing to do with my ideal for the game.
This isn't a fighting game where the number of factors is considerably more controlled. In terms of balance DBD is more like a roguelike in the sense that the absurd amount of randomness is what gives it an average, regardless of how fair any individual game's rng may be. Not only that, but your argument was about how the situation is impossible only because its no longer guaranteed, you can still go for those saves and you can still get them, it just has more room for the killer to counterplay the strategy.
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You can't really balance based on rare 'worst case scenarios' unless you're fixing an exploit or something - because that's not how most games play out.
Nobody is gaslighting you.
They are trying to point out that you're probably wrong, and making up statistics.
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