Why survivors can't combine stuff in their builds, but killers can?
I don't understand why in the latest DBD update SelfCare got nerfed (the speed may be justifiable, but removing another effect with MedKits is just questionable).
The same with Bothany Knowledge. Why survivors are penalized for using perks with items? Because it would be too powerful?
Then why give killers the ability to combine several perks to regress generators or slowdown survivors?
Why for example Legion can apply Mangled status effect to me, penalize me by using Thana and Gift of Pain on top of Dying Light (with 90s gens ofc), but I don't have anything for using Medkit with SelfCare or even I am getting penalized for using Medkit with Bothany Knowledge?
Also, why do survivors have like 30% speed penalty when using Calm Spirit? Is there any perk that reduces speed of Static Blast for Doctor, setting traps for Trapper or throwing hatchets for Huntress?
Why killers can combine a lot of perks to slowdown survivors or damage gens, but I can't combine something to heal myself?
Comments
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They nerf a ton of combinations. They do not like them for whatever reason. This is not a killer versus survivor issue. They treat them the same, more or less.
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Oh sure, please give me an example of "they nerf a ton of combinations" for the killers, because I can see a lot of posts on DBD Reddit with "survivors love that build" with stacked up 4 slowdown perks.
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Here is an example for other perks stacked on top of each other:
On the other hand, survivors got nerfed Spine Chill, so half of the "fast window vault" build got nerfed, and therefore the whole build doesn't have any sense rn xD
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Because survivors and killers are completely different and thus have different standards applied? LMAO
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Cause this game is asymmetric
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Killers get 4 perks. Survivors get 16. Survivors also have perks that benefit their team with a single perk (boons, obviously, but also things like Leader or Any Means Necessary).
Additionally, Killers have lots of perks that do nothing on their own and HAVE to be combined with others to function (Hex: Undying, Nemesis, or Pentimento, for example) as well as perks that have extremely minor effects that need to be combined with others to get any value from them (Agitation + Iron Grasp, Relentless + Starstruck, Spirit Fury + Enduring, Unnerving Presence + Distressing, etc).
As to why SPECIFICALLY gen regression perks combine: some of them don't. So, Ruin just always goes on and while it's up anything that requires a kick doesn't work. Same with any regression that blocks the gen, as that freezes progress, turns off passive regen, and prevents further kicks. And then you get cases like the new Overcharge, where they nerfed it to be WORSE than not using it UNLESS you are also using Call of Brine, which makes it half a perk rather than one by itself. And finally, the others that combine almost always require some successful play by the killer and is therefore a reward for performing well (Pop from hooking and kicking, Thanat from spreading damage without healing, Pain Resonance from hooking specifically in limited spots of the map).
Compare those to typical Survivor perks. Very, very few survivor perks require a second one to work. Same with survivor perks require successful survivor play to turn on. There are Exhaustion perks that prevent you from using other exhaustion perks, but those are all extremely powerful in their own right and are available on-demand.
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Because base survivor is already extremely strong.
Whats scarier a survivor with no perks and a green medkit or a trapper with no perks and green addon's?
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I think a bigger issue or maybe what you mean is on survivor side when they buff say botany knowledge they were sure to nerf how medkits work with it, but with say stb4l they didnt reduce it to 6 stacks so now effectively when killer reaches 8 stacks he actually has 10. Or say with pain resonance 15% didnt get nerfed to 13% to compensate for the longer gen times.
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The easy answer to your question....
Because survivors are SUPPOSED to work together. When you need heals, youre meant to find a teammate. When you want to get a gen done quickly, you gotta work with other players. Thats how the game used to be and its how it was always intended to be. The last few years, the meta had turned survivors into gods that could solo slam gens, take repeated hits only to run away and heal themselves, and double the length of chases at the push of a button. You could go an entire game and never need to interact with another survivor.. .thats not how the game was designed. All they did with this update is make it how it used to be. If you want to be effective as a survivor, you have to work with your team. The game was better for everybody back then and given time, youll see that these changes will make better players. At the end of the day, both sides will have better games
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Do you mean like how Oppression combos with literally zero gens about gen defense?
Are you forgetting that you can stack Botany Knowledge and We'll make it? You can also use Self Care, and if you wanted 4 healing perks you could bring Boon CoH too.
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Killers lost the pain res/dead man's switch wombo combo this patch
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Overcharge/CoB. Ruin/Tinkerer. DMS/Pain Resonance. Pop/Any Other Gen Kicking Perk.
That's just in the latest patch. The Botany nerfbuff was stupid, but it's fallacious to claim they only do this to survivors.
Meanwhile, I'm synergizing the hell out of a healing build right now. New Botany, Empathic Connection, and Autodidact make for racecar heals even through Sloppy and I'm loving it.
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Did they not just nerf Overcharge for that reason...
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and then a wild plague appears
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Actually, no. That's usually how the ritual works, but today it's been summoning No Mither teammates. I think a purple medkit is the secret Plague-attracting ingredient. Or maybe I just used too much virgin blood.
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Because survivor basekit is already strong and they have 16 perks while killer have 4 perks.
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In what way is this game designed for players to work together? Survivors are given no baseline information to work with and no way to coordinate loadouts with each other in a crossplay lobby. It's literally the opposite of that intended design. If their intention was for survivors to work together more after this patch, then it needed to be put on the shelf until they came up with reasonable solutions other than "run information perks and hope your teammates do too".
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I remember the old forever healing... when Rusted Chain's anti-heal was permanant and the color of the addin affected how strong it was... and then Billy would throw Thanaphobia on top of that. Needless to say, that was many reasons Thana got nerfed hard and chains now has a time limit. (That first year of DBD had some pretty wild stuff)
Then we got the 7 blink nurse, and the huntress who used to be able to carry 3 Iri hatchets.
They undo certain killer stacking as needed. It's being intellectually dishonest to claim they don't.
I started playing plague as it's my way of giving the finger to Circle of Healing.
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DMS + Pain Res
Hex: Ruin + Undying
STBFL + Unrelenting
3 really strong combos that just popped into my head that didnt last more than a few months. Meanwhile Botany/Self Care + Medkit has lasted basically since this last patch.
Freddy with Jump Rope/Swing Chains, Thana, Dying Light and Pop also didnt last very long. Which was a HEAVY slowdown build from not too long ago that required basically very little input from Freddy since most of it just happened passively
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Your response proves exactly what im sayin...survivors got too reliant on bein superman and forgot how to play the game. Information and team perks worked before the dead hard/instaheal meta, and they work now. Those perks are there to help you work together as a team. Theyre not less viable just because you dont wanna run them. So if you wanna have a less miserable time, throw on some team perks until BHVR decides to give soloQ some desperately needed basekit info. Thats all we can do
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They're less viable because it's an easy 4k as a killer if a team is running those perks instead of perks to defend themselves. I was winning the vast majority of my games on killer before the update. A lot of really good killers were. And now gens take longer and survivors have less to work with. The skill cap on survivor is dealing with bad situations a top killer player puts you in. And you can't effectively deal with those situations when you have perk slots dedicated to things like Bond.
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I love Empathic! sadly many people will go the entire game without ever paying attention and realizing there is an aura...
I'm feeling the loss of Iron Will though, my Nurse build had Empathic, Autodidact, Iron Will and Bite the Bullet for convenient heals anytime, anywhere. I might have to go Distortion now.
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Any killer perk that causes gen regression does not stack with any perk that blocks a gen. A blocked gen does not regress. Therefor, Killers do, indeed, have perks that don't mix.
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Survivors have lots of good combos. You want a gen speed build try built to last (with commodious toolbox and add-ons), Inner Healing, Overzealous and then either streetwise or Prove Thyself. You want a fast healing build try self care with desperate measure and botany, you want an information build ,open handed with bond and kindred.
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Speak for yourself. My most successful and safe soloQ build is Bond+Kindred+Open Handed+Borrowed Time.
I even sometimes run this when I fo SWF. People always claim that you don't need any of this info perks when SWFing, but this people obviously never equipped this combo in a very long time. What everyone seems to sleep on is the massive difference between knowing what's going on and actually SEEING it in real time.
And the wall hack of Open Handed+Kindred is just unreal and borderline unfair to the killer.
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Yeah, I miss IW. The build I lost out on most was my locker build - Q&Q, Head On, and IW. Without IW, it doesn't work unless you're healthy, and the burst of speed from injury was usually where I broke LOS and picked a locker, because I liked to have the wiggle room to make my scratch marks lead forward and then double back.
I should play with Bite the Bullet more; I've seen some really genius plays where a survivor disappears mid-chase with it. The killer never expects it. I guess with that build, OTR should work for... a decent portion of the match? Gotta miss the 100% reliability, though.
(For Empathic, I only recently discovered this perk, but find it really depends on the team. Sometimes I get people who constantly visit me and sometimes I can go the full game without anyone ever showing up (usually when CoH is in play.) Also had one Claudette who I was pretty sure was using me as a dump zone for the killer, but it's solo queue, what can you do.)
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In this patch, absolutely the trapper.
If you are running perkless that means you make grunts of pain coming off the hook. That means you have no off the record. That means the killer will tunnel you the instant they hear you still have grunts of pain and the match will be over on the 3rd hook of the match.
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But you can. Before the update, my go to build was Empathy/Bond, Lithe, Kindred/We'll Make It, and WGLF for points. Now ive switched out WGLF for BT, Prove Thyself, or Lightweight depending on how the nights going. My experience has barely changed, with the exception of ppl protesting or pouting or whatever and refusing to touch gens. Top tier killers are always gonna be able to get kills, just like top tier survivors are always gonna be able to find ways to run tiles. Once ppl stop freakin out over these changes and learn or re-learn the game, theres gonna be a lot more players in those brackets. Thats what will make the game as a whole better.
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Hex ruin and undying lasted way longer than a few months lol try a few years
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Kindred/Windows might as well be called the "solo queue UAV" combo. The amount of info the two provide, especially when paired, is kinda nuts. Similar perks like Empathy and even Alert can give you a lot more info than you might expect, especially when paired with other similar perks to help with the data.
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You only cherry picked the bad examples.
My current build is:
Bite the Bullet, Botany Knowledge, We're Gonna Live Forever, and Desperate Measures
This ALL stacks. I can rapidly get you off the ground in record time and then heal you to full and do it all behind a wall while making zero noise.
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no, Undying/Ruin was actually a strong combo when they first made the changes, especially with how dominant Blight was getting at the time. The ruin/undying combo that just died again was actually worse than the combo used to be for a few months in the past.
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"Then why give killers the ability to combine several perks to regress generators or slowdown survivors?"
For one, they got rid of the pain res, dms combo that was an absolute nuisance to go against. They buffed chased potential, which makes killers less dependent on slow down. Your example relies on legion a C tier killer. Who already struggles in mid mmr, and the major reason why you can't run self care with 100 other healing perks is because the perk should be a trade off. Botany knowledge was broken with circle of healing and then put self care ontop of it - ARE YOU NUTS? That was broken beyond belief. Ruin is also gone, which was one of the comfort stacking perks for a lot of gen regression builds. Now all killers really have are a weaker corrupt, with maybe overcharge and call of brine which was also nerfed together.
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The trapper, cause he just Tunnels the survivor out of the match
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You on Gen, Jake on another Gen, Dwight on hook, Meg in chase:
Solo scenario 1:
Me M1 on Gen hoping Jake going for unhook, only to have Jake also hope me going for unhook. Dwight gets into 2nd stage.
Solo scenario 2:
Me and Jake go for unhooking, takes 20sec to get there only to see Jake already unhooking, takes another 20sec to go back to my Gen. The total time wasted for Me was 40sec Gen progression.
Solo scenario 3:
Meg lurking around trying to find a way to unhook Dwight because of camping. 30sec pass and Me on Gen wonder why no one gets Dwight, Me take 20sec running to Dwight and see Killer is proxy camping (harder to recognize than face camping). Jake does the same thing like me. It takes 10-15sec for me & Jake to realized its a camper and we take 20sec to go back to our own Gen. The total time wasted for Me & Jake was 50-60sec Gen progression.
Mean while in SWF
Me: hey how many % of your Gen, Jake?
Jake: about 80%, you?
Me: 40%, commit that Gen, I will go for unhooking.
Zero second wasted.
Im just talking about 1 hook, the possibility of wasting half a min from a single hook. And Killers try so hard to prevent Solo having infos, while making point SWFs are so strong that they should get buffed more.
If Solo has enough info to be similar to SWF, Killers would get buffed more.
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I preach it like gospel, but apparently no one wants to hear it: my most successful soloQ build is Bond+Kindred+Open Handed+BT. The constant info at extended range is awesome and allows you to make pretty informed decisions of all kinds, and the wallhack of Kindred+OpenHanded is just insane. Its nearly half the map and the killer just can't mindgame you; heck its so useful that you might be tempted to let someone hanging :D
I use this build even when playing SWF, because here is the kicker: people will tell you that SWF basically get this perks for free, but this people are sleeping on the fact that there is a big difference in "the killer is chasing me, I am running towards shack!" and actually seeing every movement of it through walls and everything. This is so huge and you can't communicate that much via Discord to come close to this flow of information. Of course, other builds will offer vastly different abilities, but I ask you to just try this simple build out for a couple of games and see for yourself.
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Botany Knowledge + CoH. There you go, insta-heals for everyone!
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What do you mean "can't combine"? There are a lot of perks that have synergy.
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Oh please. There have been plenty of combos that have gotten nerfed over the years be it perk and addon combos. Quit acting like its exclusive to survivors. People have given plenty of examples in responses and if you don't see that and your just gonna make the excuse "b..but but its not the same!!!" then there is no point in discussing with you lol.
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Freddy addon nerf
Dead men switch and explode hook combo
Nomal atk tag
Etc etc
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The OG Ruin + Undying combo? Nah bro.
Also Undying hasnt even been in the game for 2 years yet lmao
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Yes killers can stack slowdown, but survivors can also stack stuff.
We can stack healing (Botany, CoH, Desperate Measures, WGLF)
We can stack repair speed (Prove Thyself, Deja Vu, Overzealous, Fast Track, Toolboxes, BNP)
We can stack movement speed (Post unhook speed boost, Sprint Burst, Guardian, No One Left Behind, BT, Hope)
Sure these aren't as commonly stacked as slowdown perks, but you can still stack stuff. The only thing they removed was Botany and Self-Care affecting Med-Kits.
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Why do we have four perk slots? perks have the synergy that makes each other stronger, and synergy is BAD! right?
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Quite a few regression perks are incompatable. Perks like Pain Resonance and Jolt prevent you from kicking the affected gens, so these don't work with Overcharge and Pop. Ruin still pairs with other perks well, but its own effectiveness has been massively downgraded. Thana doesn't work with most killers due to how fast healing is with CoH and medkits, with Legion and Plague rare exceptions, and even then there are survivor perks like Resilience and Prove Thyself that can mitigate if not negate its effect.
I will agree that Self-care was changed unnecessarily. It was already slow enough to be a hindrance if overused. If healing was too fast (which it was w/ CoH), then why change Self-care of all things? Botany, on the other hand, made healing extremely fast if paired with strong medkits, even more so w/ CoH.
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2 weeks shy of 2 years big mistake on my part smh
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if we are supposed to work together, give us voice chat. i'm sick of this SWF vs SoloQ battle the devs won't resolve. ADD. VOICE. CHAT.
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I mean I dont know about you, but September doesnt look like its 2 weeks away
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