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Stop Blaming DH
Note: This thread is not directed at killers who made meaningful arguments, you guys are nice to conversate with even if we don't always see eye to eye
Blah blah blah, we get it, DH was nerfed, not every survivor used the damn perk, stop using that as your one excuse. Because believe it or not, not every survivor and their dog used DH. Time and time again a see specific killers (you know who you are) saying survivors are only mad about DH, but they don't even read the post, they see the title and go "Yep, keep crying cuz your precious DH is gone, gg ez bozo!"
There are valid complaints from the survivor side and it mainly has to do with solo-queue, not even the actual nerfs survivors got. So please, thake the time to read their posts instead of jumping to conclusions, because guess what.
Everyone knows Dead Hard was nerfed. But guess what? Quite a few people didn't use the god forsaken perk.
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Everyone knows Dead Hard was nerfed. But guess what? Quite a few people didn't use the god forsaken perk.
That's not even my biggest issue with the asinine 'SurVivOrS caN'T plAy wIthOut DEad HarD!'.
It's that the plethora of other buffs killers got are completely ignored just to make some whiny statement about Dead Hard.
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No worries, in my games at least people are remembering how good sprint burst was, I am running vigil + sprint sb myself, soon the entitled killer mains will blame their lack of skill on this perk now
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No one is saying the problem was solely dead hard and no not every survivor did use dead hard, but 80% of the survivor player base did. A whopping 80% used dead hard including me btw, and literally all my friends on dbd used dead hard. I've a friend who's an insane survivor and one of the biggest reasons he got away with so much BS in chase was, you guessed it, dead hard.
Now he's still strong without dead hard, but when it was there he would take about 3-4 minutes every time to go down unless the killer either had him in a deadzone, or really messed him over. But he'd spend most chases laughing during the chase as to how the killer couldn't get him. This makes him sound like a terrible person, but he's not he just knew how to abuse dead hard to the max.
Dead was not the sole issue, but Jesus was it a big one.
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It's a purposeful tactic from the type of players that ruin this game. "Hurrr survivors r bad! I shall now exercise my teenage revenge upon you for the years of flashlight clicking!".
Honestly this whole ordeal has made me reconsider, as an adult, why the hell I play this game LOL.
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75%.
After a certain MMR level, 75% of survivors were using DH, creeping upwards past 80% at the highest MMRs. Yes, it was a problem.
It may not be the only reason people are annoyed right now, but I suspect that it's a big part. Nobody likes being nerfed.
The bigger issue is that solo versus killer and SWF versus killer are very difficult to balance, as a nerf/buff to one has a knock-on effect to the others. Before 6.1.0, killers got the short end of the stick. Now it's solos. Which...isn't ideal, but it's half a 'faction' versus an entire faction, so it's probably an improvement.
Yes, solo queue needs some love - but, at the same time, it's too early to declare that the sky is falling. Let's see how this looks in a month or two, once the incentives are back in, everyone is at the MMR they should be at and a new meta has emerged.
And almost all of them were needed.
The problems are that:
- DS was overnerfed.
- Self Care was overnerfed (it's a very good solo queue perk).
- The BT change isn't sufficient anti-camp.
- Nurse and Blight are still too strong.
However, you also need to understand that a lot of killers, especially long-timers, aren't exactly above a little bit of schadenfreude-tastic 'see how it feels, survivors, to be on the spiky end for once?' prodding. The Wraith, Twins and Freddy nerfs still loom large in a lot of minds.
Hopefully, once the incentives are back, people will start playing both sides more and develop a little bit more empathy.
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A lot of good answers here, so I won't repeat everything already said.
OP, you are right, of course, there are various problems and DH was just a pretty big 75% problem that got a massive stranglehold on the game.
BUT I just want to throw in two thoughts:
1) the first hours of the patch, the whole first day, survivor games just crumbled and utterly obliterated at the slightest touch. This probably didn't happen just because killers got 10% buffed, or else we wouldn't have seen this total destruction of the survivors game play, but likely because the rug was pulled from under everyone, exposing to the world of DBD how much of the survivor player base had relied on this perk, the wool was pulled from everyones eyes, showing that the endless debates of "lol just bait it out, its just a perk. Git gud" and "maybe you didn't outplay them. What makes you think you earned that down? Obviously you didn't" probably held more water then many would want to admit.
2) Not every player used DH, and not every player was carried by DH, BUT I would go so far to say that every single game was carried in one way or another by DH. You always had those players who didn't use it and still did well. They either used different exhaustion perks, immersed themselves or just were pretty good at looping and maybe supported their skills with some Windows of Opportunity or the likes. But 3/4 of the player base after a certain MMR bracket used it, and every single game multiple times someone got away, dashed to safety or invalidated a killers clever positioning with DH, and this added up and carried the game, even for ones sitting on a gen.
Since then many survivors have adapted to the new situation and (re) learned how to properly loop without DH and how to play safer. This patch many many important things happened all together, and they don't just add up but sometimes multiply themselves, but I am pretty sure that we had seen shock and awe effect like the first day of the patch, if they had just made the change to DH and nothing else. Maybe not so long lasting or prevalent, but it would have been there.
But this is past us now, water under the bridge. Now we must work together to help our soloQ fellows out (I am a soloQ survivor most of the time myself, btw) and how to combat the camping /tunneling epidemic.
DH is dead, and I am pretty confident that it will never return to anything like it's glory days, and that's a good thing.
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The problems are:
DS was changed so many times it's probably the most bipolar perk ever.
DH was an overrated exhaustion perks but was the only RELIABLE one as any other exhaustion perk was bad or required an activation factor.
Balanced Landing was the only contender until,you guessed,it was nerfed.
DH didn't require a nerf,it required competition,once killers were called on their BS that this perk was op they quickly blame nerf motivation for overusage,which I stated and you can deduce it;s because of lack of competitivness.
SC wasn't good for SoloQ,if you use it,please don't queque as a solo,you'll ruin the experience for others,it's the worst healing perk in the game after healing went from 14 to 16 and mangled added slowed healing progress.
SC should be considered bannable for idling or AFK,that's how bad of a perk it is.
The BT destruction is nothing compared to the lackluster of anti tunneling nerfs,just admit developers,baby killers need to tunnel to vent frustration and you've got skins to sell.
Add 85% of killers as I stated previously in other posts that any anti looping killer should be considered on the nerfing chain.
They were designed with 2016 map designed in mind but were brought after 2019.
Doctor,Billy,Wraith,Sadako,Oni,Huntress,Artist,Legion,Clown,Demo,Spirit,Hag,Trickster,Deathslinger,Bubba,Plague and a few others which I don't think their anti looping is that big of an issue.
These killers have very strong anti looping abilities which created the SHIFT + W meta,which was nerfed,a meta isn't born out of boredom but necessity.
If my only defence against killers is negated by 90% of killers then I must buy time as going down is not an IF question but WHEN and when my precious time is made meaningless by broken slowdown perks which seem to have no shortage,then my freaking killer main friend,the game's not anymore survivor sided but your killer sided.
And this has been a question you should have asked yourself,in a game where teamwork is king,should communication and teamwork be absent?
If said teamwork is the only thing to be able to win and even then not beign foulproof then what's a player not in a SWF supposed to think before clicking "Play as a Survivor"
This is a fact killers mains have to put in their brains,game's has been killer sided since 2019,but the devs have handed you kills on a silver plate that whenever one of your 25 games is missing with kills,you go ballistic.
I kid you not,I could ask the killer mains what game's they've played and they recite the bad ones like it's a poem.
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First, I love how you put this, I will not deny DH is in fact a problem for sure, but I am very happy to understand that you know where I'm coming from here. Cuz DH definitely needed a nerf, my friend and I personally hated it and I don't even play killer as often as him.
I also agree with the amount of complaints after the patch first released, I think this was mainly because console players didn't have the chance to experience the PTB like PC players did and this was their first taste of the changes. But I do also agree how a few complaints I have seen were justified which was the increase in camping and tunneling I've noticed and others have as well, and how the Survivor meta has been changed, but the Killer meta roughly stayed the same with just stacking slow down perks but now it's become stronger.
I made a post actually addressing Solo-queue and despite no mention of DH it did come into the conversation due to one of the people who need to keep saying like a drone that it was nerfed.
Both sides have their issues, DH which was definitely one, and it was nerfed it's just when certain people need to say it every other comment/post talking about the update is what irks me.
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There is some truth to some aspects of your post, but a lot that's either plainly wrong or so biased that you can't look clear anymore, no matter how hard you squint.
I am at work and just got my phone, so I don't feel like engaging on a lengthy parley with you, but I might do so tomorrow.
But just for a stater, I wouldn't attack wide swathes of the player base with blanket statements and some numbers pulled out of thin air.
But you seem like a clever one, so let's see if we can somehow meet in the middle. :)
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At high MMR before the patch I was seeing every single survivor in my matches us Dead Hard. It was rare to see a survivor without dead hard.
Based on Behavior's own data, the amount of people using Dead Hard scaled linearly with MMR. The higher the survivor's MMR, the more likely it was they carried Dead Hard. Dead Hard, quite literally, carried survivors to high MMR.
Now that these survivors have lost Dead Hard in it's previous state, they have found themselves in an MMR bracket that is far above their skill level. All the killers they are playing against, have a skill level far above the survivors they are currently playing against, because they got their rating from playing against overpowered survivors.
Give it some time and everyone's MMR will adjust as they lose games. Their actual skill level will be made apparent.
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Most reasonable people are aware there are plenty of issues with solo-q and that this patch made them worse (by how much by is up for debate but we can agree it's worse in some capacity), however a big part of this will simply be because of the dead hard change. If 3/4 survivors were using it (as statistically shown), and you claim you never used it therefore "why are my games worse if I didn't change my build" you're forgetting the possibility that the other 3 survivors in your lobby may have crutched on dead hard.
Even if you didn't use dead hard you still benefitted from it statistically in your solo-q games because of your teammates being able to use it (if you were the one not running it). Now that they can't use it to extend their chases you no longer benefit from dead hard as well. Taking this into account the devs have also said they wanted kill rates to rise so killers got a basekit buff as well, meaning it's no wonder your games are being mangled if the other survivors are completely lost without their perk (also, just so I don't have to specify later, we both know not all 3 of the other survivors continuously crutched onto the perk but I'm sure we can agree MANY of them did).
There are issues that need to be addressed even after this patch (incentives not to tunnel/camp etc), but a lot of the immediate results we are seeing are most likely because of the cause and effect of dead hard being neutered. Ultimately, even if you didn't use dead hard, you still statistically benefitted from it in your games before the nerf and those that did use it need time to adapt. After-all we're seeing plenty of decent survivor streamers doing work without dead hard because they are good at their role.
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Just to clarify a couple things though
- 70% of above average survivors did use Dead Hard per the perk usage by MMR charts in the dev blogs. So yeah, that means almost 1/3 survivors didn't use it, those people exist, but it's still a solid majority of survivors that did. So for Dead Hard to go from that much usage to being used kind of occasionally is a pretty huge meta shift.
- I've seen a handful of survivors literally post that Dead Hard was fine and shouldn't have been nerfed, but most of the survivor posts don't mention Dead Hard either way. They seem to be focusing a lot more on how long it takes to finish gens, particularly against that Legion/Thanatophobia/etc build.
- That said I'm positive some of the increase in kill rate going on this instant is a bunch of those survivor who used Dead Hard have to relearn their pathing. I've had a lot of instances as a killer where I chased a survivor and got a hit before they reached a pallet or vault that I'm 100% positive they would have gotten to safely if they had the old Dead Hard. It's definitely a factor in the short term. In the long term that will go away, though, as survivors play better using other perks and/or get used to timing the new Dead Hard to block incoming attacks. From the unofficial numbers I saw I think it went from something like 49% kill rate pre-patch to about 64% now, and I'm guessing as the dust settles over the next month or two it'll drop down to 58% or something like that.
- While the matchmaking bloodpoint bonus was briefly active last week it seemed to have a big impact on the queues, since the bonus was permanently stuck on giving points to survivors everybody was playing survivor all the time and the survivor queues were really long. As soon as that bonus was killswitched to fix the bug that made it always be for survivors the queues flip flopped and now killers have really long waits instead. So I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple weeks when the matchmaking bonus is reinstated we see the queue times shift again, hopefully to be a little more even.
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And I understand this, never did I deny it, but I didn't mention my games either. The main issue with solo-queue (aside from what you have mentioned) was things like the uprise and tunneling/camping (yes it was used before, but seems worse now) because the devs didn't go through with the original promise to buff solo-queue before buffing Killers for the exact reason as solo-queue would get left behind. Those were the most common complaints (from what I've seen at least) or killers running full slowdown builds because that was pretty much the meta before because gens were flying.
Killers did need a buff, for sure, but they were overbuffed with this update due to the survivor meta being changed for the most part and the killer meta not changing much. Don't get me wrong, DH definitely needed a nerf, and I have no problem with DS disabling during endgame. But the 5 second stun is needed now due to killers like Blight and Nurse not being affected really and it takes 1 second to start the DS animation and you have 2 to get away. This is not a problem with the killers themselves, but due to the nerf of one of the better anti-tunneling perks.
Also if I had to guess, most of the complaints stem from the survivors on console cuz they didn't get to test the PTB like PC players did, so the only way to get their feedback through was through their complaints cuz PTB feedback wasn't a viable option.
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Woof.
Okay, let's take a look.
DS was straight busted for a while, as it amounted to a defacto extra life. That was nerfed, but people were abusing it to be jerks in endgame, so it was adjusted again. The 5->3 seconds nerf was unneeded.
DH...was absolutely not overrated. It had zero counterplay and could extend chases basically forever. It needed a nerf, badly. Sometimes something is so busted that it's better to just nerf it than try to buff everything to compete and totally rebalance your game.
Balanced Landing was a problem on Haddonfield. It's still a very solid perk, as Otz has recently been demonstrating. It just requires a bit of foresight.
BT...was not destroyed. It's still an excellent perk, just not as much of a necessity.
85%...what? No, I have no idea what you're trying to say here.
No, those killers are a mixed bag. Doctor and Clown have very mediocre anti-loop. Sadako, Billy, Bubba and Wraith have zero anti-loop...again, what? The only killer on your list that is even close to strong is Oni (due to a bug) and Artist (who has a ridiculously high skill cap).
90% is another made up stat, and basically everything here is hyperbole. The only additional defences needed have to do with camping and tunneling. Slowdown perks all got nerfed, with the outliers being PR (which will almost certainly be nerfed to 10%) and maybe Thana (which I'm unsure of).
The game is absolutely not killer sided. Watching some streams, it's still SWF sided - just not as much as before.
Yes, solo survivors are struggling right now (but nowhere near as much as the forum outrage machine would have you believe), but - if SWF is going to be a thing - then the game needs to be balanced around SWFs.
Since 2019...lolwut. I started in 2020 and I had to deal with multiple spots on every map where I couldn't pick survivors up, infinites, prenerf OoO, prenerf DS, keys etc. I can only imagine what the game was like in 2019.
Yes, people complain a lot. It's a gaming forum. But with your entire post basically being one epic length poem of complain, maybe you should attempt to leave that glass house before you start lobbing bricks.
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I'm using SC/BK in my build and have escaped most of my matches (so far), today.
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someone who gets it
we all know deadhard was nerf but don't forget all the other survivor nerfs like DS and selfcare,then there all tho buff killer got but they never talk about.
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As long as they play solo q, biggest difference between before and now is still dead hard.
Literally every other change is not a game changer tier, people can still loop, people can still finish gens, and slowdowns aren't as strong as before even with 10 more seconds.
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entitled? you don't know much about killer history do you.
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Just to clarify - the chart showed 75% usage in high MMR, about 45% in mid MMR, and about 18% in low MMR. That doesn't come out to 1/3 players. I know you said above average, but i see alot of people claiming the high MMR stats cover all survivors, which isnt true. The devs said only a very small percentage of players are in high MMR too.
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I think mid MMR is biggest playerbase and 45% is still laughably big.
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I double checked and I was off on the 70%, it looks like it's actually 50% is at the thickest part of the lines (i.e. the median MMRs is where the lines are thickest in the middle of the graph) and above average players beyond that would be in the 55-60+% range. It's hard to tell exactly what the weighted average over the median would be but 60% seems like a pretty good guess.
So you're right that I was off on the 70% number. It's still a really sizeable chunk of the player base though, in the vicinity of 50%.
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85% of killer roaster have a built in counter to looping.
90% of my defences against killers are tiles and loops which are countered by said killers.
The issue isn't them countering,it's them beign able to mindgame and stop looping at the same time with relative ease.
More so once a pallet dropped and it isn't a stun,goodbye freedom,you're going down in no time,there's barrely any line of sight blockers to consider juking and hiding so just BUY TIME..even 5 seconds.
And yea the SHIFT+ W meta was born because of necessity and not boredom,it was imo the last hope of survivor enjoyment...maybe a miracle stun pallet or line of sight...but no more of these,reduced MS remember?
I mentioned SWIFT + W because killers were complaining it became too strong and "boring" ,because running slow down builds isn't boring and overdone,freaking hypocrites.
The perks I mentioned,Dead Hard,Decisive,Balanced,Borrowed?
You're the one telling me I'm hyperbole,yet from PoV you're the one hyperbole DH & BL yet downplay BT and Decisive nerfs.
Sure the first iterrations of DS were unjustful awful and only when it became an anti tunneling did it any recognition as a good perk..
Borrowed Time had it's down when both survivors would get it...then it was ok..the new BT effects after unhooks?
AWFUL and short,not to mention the killer for some ungodly reason are STILL alerted that an unhook happened,even with BT the tunneling will be easy to do so,a bit of patience chasing another player and picking up the injured trails to tunnel him,that's how good tunnelers do it,atleast in my region.
Dead Hard wasn't able to freaking extend a loop to infinite unless you made multiple mistakes at which point it was a YOU issue and not a DEAD HARD issue,not OP,overrated and lack of better options,yes.
If you tell me like some killers did post "People realise SB is still good" I'll just ignore you..it's an awful exhaustion perk,has been and will be.
Balanced Landing on old Haddonfield was OP,man everything on OLD Haddonfield was OP,new one is so killer sided but it's no problem to you,I'm sure,especially when there are like 6 pallets and 2/3 of it are missing pallets or tiles,just a few houses with useless windows.
By mid 2019 there were no infinites,only huge loops remained of them,still bad but not as bad as before.
When I started,when clown and the shop were released,there were only 3 infinites left,a month after there were some changes and they became long loops,which were still OP..
I hate and I find it despicable that Killers think it's ok to nerf and balance around SWF!
Let's fcking balance killers around Blight and Nurse,sounds good?
I think you need to get out of your comfort zone,swallow that pride of yours and click PLAY SURVIVOR and I'll give you 5 days until you switch your opinion completely.
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I don't know where you got that 85% from, but a more realistic number would be around 67.85%
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I'm not good at math.
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They NEED to blame something. What's better than DH to blame?
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I was happy the dead hard nerf was finally here so some killers would shut up about it but it seems like they are talking about it more now than ever. Please, just move on.
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And 67.85% is still a bit too considerate.
Most Killers are easily countered, and their antiloop Powers barely do anything
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I'm gonna be the ######### that brings it up even when its not mentioned but DH was so prelevant and so powerful that even if nobody in game had it (which was basically never mind you) the killer still had to respect it at least 4 times in chase. This slowed games down considerably. It is unironically liberating not having to worry about DH and a good reason why survivors are going down way faster is because killers dont give a ######### about DH now.
So yeah, even you who never used DH was kinda carried by DH.
I was being devils advocate a little bit but i unironically think this is one of the secret ingredients in that meal, a lil piece of that puzzle, a lil something something ☀(▀U ▀-͠)
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Wow, that is a lot of spite for Killers.
You know, usually I played more Killer (still around 60/40 ratio) but ever since this patch dropped and a good friend of mine had more time we played a ton of DuoQ.
I do not know what you are complaining about. I am an awful survivor, I go down quickly during the chase and my only saving grace is that I know how most Killers play and that I have pretty good feeling where I should be.
Tunneling is better than ever. Killers who tunnel the wrong person throw the whole match if the survivor has the new Borrow Time (which is pretty sweet during endgame as well) or brings Off the Record and Lithe/Sprint Burst. Sure my friend died but we managed a solid 3 people escape.
I agree that camping should get punished harder. Maybe they could increase the timer for the first hook stage up to a minute or so, to encourage Killers to win more time by hooking different survivors. I am open for other ideas.
However I strongly disagree that survivor plays as hard as you tell us here.
The most annoying regression perks where nerfed hard: Pop goes the Weasel is a joke, Ruin is not even worth searching for, Pain Res can no longer trigger Deadmans Switch and Corrupt Intervention stops once somebody goes down.
The "new" regression require the Killer to go out of their way and can no longer instantly stop a generator from getting finished. If you use Overcharge the regression starts at 75% now, lower that normally and the whole effect can be undone by one skillful survivor. If you stack Call of Brine you either need mobility from hell or go out of your way unless you managed a pretty good 3gen.
Sure some Killers need nerfs or adjustments: Nure should get her hit after a Blink reworked into a special attack to make her unable to abuse lethality perks and Blights add-ons are far too good on a Killer with a basekit like that. Maybe even a slight nod to Spirits add-ons and Myers Tombestone Piece, by the way.
So no, survivor is not miserable. It is fun for me.
Most of our matches were a lost case because of somebody using Self Care or somebody DCing instantly when they face Legion. Most times those are the same people who wanted to sit on the same generator with me against Legion...
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The other thing too is that consider that even at its lowest Dead Hard was still the third most perk (assuming some others that weren't mentioned didn't rank higher) and was used 1 in 5. That's still rather high considering how many perks are in the game. True the fact Dead Hard belongs to David who is available at the game from the start does inflate it's numbers and it's other two counterparts Self care and Spine Chill are also available at the start but unlike the other 'only available at the start' perks, Dead Hard's numbers go up, not down with MMR.
The fact it gets as high as 50% is absolutely laughable never mind getting as high as 75% at highest mmr. Especially considering it's also an exhaustion perk and thus competes with all other exhaustion perks, in other words, it's not like self care or Iron will. You have to not run other perks to use Dead Hard, or well they don't work :D. It is utterly stunning to me that it was left alone for so long.
Honestly considering how huge a part of the game Dead Hard was, nerfing it was always going to have earth shaking effects on the balance. Personally they probably should have been more conservative overall and I usually like my changes drastic. Shake ups are good and all but this one was always going to be massive and considering they just shuffled the killer slowdown perks around (buffed some nerfed others)... I dunno that felt off for a shake up considering they passively added extra gen time so people wouldn't feel the need to run them...
Mind you I still think Dead Hard is the best exhaustion perk. It just can't be used mindlessly anymore.
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Maybe it is only me, but DH nerf would have been enough for me. I wouldn't mind if they revert some of the killer changes.
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Where do I even start here?
- No, they don't. As TODP said, it's more like <70%. But that number barely matters, because most of those anti-loops are bad.
- No, they aren't.
- What BT nerf? I said that DS got overnerfed.
- I'm not sure if you get what 'hyperbole' means. It's not an insult, I'm just saying that you are exaggerating.
- Oh, you mean the original BT from ages ago? No, that was completely broken. Camping and tunneling need to be less attractive, but unhooks shouldn't be completely free.
- I don't tunnel, and think that it's too effective a strategy - but, at the end of the day, you have 3 teammates that could be running interference.
- No, Dead Hard could extend a loop by ages. For instance, on the Cow Tree loop on Cowshed - run the killer until they are close, then DH, drop the pallet, go to Shack.
- SB...dude, SB is an amazing perk. As is Lithe. They just aren't brokenly OP.
- I thought new Haddonfield was killer sided too, before I played it a little more. It's...not. There are some insanely strong pallets in amongst the cars, and some absolutely nuts vaults in the houses.
- There were still pseudo-infinites *this year* (go and watch Otz's Nemesis streak video to see the one on the old Haddonfield). There's still a potential infinite on Swamp.
- Why is that despicable? If you balance around solos, SWFs are unbeatable and all killers suffer. If you balance around SWF, solos have a tough time, sure - and yes, solos need help. But if SWF exists, you have to balance around it.
- Or...we could just nerf Nurse and Blight. A little.
- You can read my posts, going back a while. I play survivor and killer about 50/50.
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The thing is, I understand and agree with why people hated old DH so much. When used by good survivors, it had the ability to extend chases and even circumnavigate specific killers' special abilities (Trapper, for instance). However, the outcry against it seemed like every killer was going against god-level, highest MMR survivor's who knew how to effectively use DH, which we all know, completely ignores the contingency of the many users of DH who weren't able to use it as effectively. Honestly, I've lost track of the number of times I saw survivors DH right out in the open or even DH into walls/objects. The 'Press E to win' has always been hyperbole as that mentality assumes all survivors were using DH, and as I said, were always able to extend chases (which we all know is not true). It was only the 'DH for distance' that was ever the issue, which has been blown way out of proportion. At face value, the perk is used to 'dodge a hit', which is by no means different from a killer being able to, for example, get insta-downs.
This leads to my next point: a lot of DBD players despise losing, and constantly look for reasons to blame others for their loss. You see it from both sides equally. Survivor's get 4k'd? it must be because the killer brought a strong build and NOED. All 4 survivors escape? It must be because their exhaustion perks and DS carried them. I'm not for one minute saying old DH wasn't over-powered and needed a nerf for a long time, but a lot of people jumped on the 'anti-DH' bandwagon because it was a perfect excuse. I think a lot of players just don't like to admit they simply got outplayed. Let's say, on average, 2/4 survivor's brought old DH pre-update and in a match, they all escape; I don't for one minute believe DH was the sole reason they won. A competitive advantage? Yes, but to imply one perk alone earned an entire team of four survivors 5 gens and an escape always was, and still remains, outrageous.
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Personally I’m betting Sprint Burst might now the best exhaustion perk. Dead Hard is still usable but it’s always been tricky to time to block attacks (hence why dodging for distance was so much more popular). It’s a fairly reliable way to get a lot of extra distance right at the very start of a chase as it works in pretty much all chases (as opposed to say Overcome requiring you to be healthy or Lithe and Balanced Landing requiring you to vault or jump off something nearby.) I think Sprint Burst will take the top slot among the exhaustion perks, maybe even be the top survivor perk overall give or take Off the Record.
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I'm an optimistic fool who thought that nerfing dead hard would mean we don't have to discuss it every 5 minutes. What a beautiful, naïve dream...
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Real quick, so I will debunk this real quick, I do admit that some of my random teammates once in a while would use DH when I was in my two-man swf. But surprisingly it wasn't as common as other people were putting it, but that was probably because me and my friend don't use it and we take half the team so the people more likely using it had a 50/50 chance to end up on my team.
Once in a blue moon did I see teammates running dead hard, and surprisingly quite a few of them were not skilled with the perk despite it just being "press a to win"
Now, at the same time, I will admit that again there would people who would run the perk every once in awhile that were in fact skilled with it and we probably must've won a match thanks to it. But you'd be surprised with the amount of teammates I used to have that was just dead hard into a wall.
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I can tell, because they are the ones who are very good and don't greed too much during chases. The ones who used it as a crutch still have a bad habit of being greedy when they don't have that luxury.
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Even without DH, I used to and still do greed palettes, but that's because I'm trying to get into the habit of hugging walls, and the obstacles that I am running, because I already know that I am not good at looping killer lolol
Still getting the hang of it though, I am mainly altruistic and a gen jockey
Post edited by Mekochi on1 -
I almost never used it, the few times i did use it i escaped way more than i should have
My personal favourite exhaustion perk is lithe, though i honestly don't run it unless I'm running something like quick and quiet, in fact, i don't really use exhaustion perks in general
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Thats not what i am saying. I understand that you arent using dead hard and neither were your friends. What im saying is beforehand even when you werent using dead hard the killer would have to check for it so to speak losing precious time, sometimes multiple times in a match if you havent shown them any other exhaustion perk.
After the patch what could be happening is, yes killers getting overall a little buffed, which is nice. But more importantly killers are just going gungho now so to speak and that might be making you go down easier. Even more than the 10% pallet break, even more than the less distance covered after a hit imo whats also a big factor is killers are just not giving people those extra few seconds in a chase to check for DH, that mental switch is gone.
I'm saying even if none of the 4 survivors in your lobby were running DH, you all used to benefit from it. And now you dont. Aka yes you didnt run DH, but you still benefited from it.
I know, i know its petty. But yeah killers seem faster in chases, could that be a factor as well? : P
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My apologies, I misunderstood, but as someone else said, I don't think that the perk was the only reason that would be able to increase chances of escape, there can be numerous factors that come into play within the situation. The killer may or may not have slipped up, no one can truly know aside from the killers and survivors within that match.
I'm sure you know this, but there are people who do think that the sole reason that survivors were able to escape was only because of DH.
Also who am I to call Killers petty for that, both sides have their own petty things.
Again, if I misunderstood somewhere, my apologies.
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''there are people who do think that the sole reason that survivors were able to escape was only because of DH''
Oh yeah some people are actually like that.
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Actually, quite a few people are basically saying it was dead hard. There are plenty of posts of people complaining that killers are op because of all their buffs and there’s always that one guy who says “just learn how to get good without using dead hard” and there are plenty of posts from killer mains who literally say “survivors are throwing fits because they can’t use dead hard anymore”. When I haven’t seen 1 post or comment or anything where a survivor mentions needing/wanting dead hard to be brought back and saying that killers are OP because dead hard was nerfed. So I’m not sure why you would think people on this forum would believe your lie but we all see the same forum as you.
and as to your friend being able to be chased for 3-4 minutes, you do realize dead hard was only a perk that worked for like 2 seconds right? Sure, you can get to another loop and extend the amount of time you were being chased but your friend won’t just automatically become a bot survivor because dead hard was nerfed, he still was able to loop and mind game the killer for minutes at a time. Dead hard just EXTENDED the amount of time he was able to loop/mind game the killer. So in reality dead hard didn’t give him any of his skill.. it just gave him more time to use it. I can tell you don’t really have thousands of hours put into this game but trust me, a decent amount of people are saying survivors are mad because of the dead hard nerf, and dead hard didn’t provide any skill so after its nerf, survivors didn’t lose any skill, they just lost time in chases. Which then impacts the amount of time gens can be worked on, and then since killers can recover faster, killers get kills faster, which makes chases even more faster, which makes gen pressure even more prominent. BUT ALSO now gens take an extra 10 seconds to complete which makes it even more difficult to complete gens on top of everything else I mentioned, Let alone if they use slowdown perks on top of that.
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This ×100 holy hell this perk killed my interest in the game. It became a filter test of how bad does this killer lose to dead hard to decide whther i played them or not. This patch could do none of the awesome things it did but nerf dead hard and i would still be happy. The play rate was absurd for that perk. Not everyone used dead hard op but when more then 75% of the player base was using it that spoke volumes of how broken this perk was.
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Even if you never ran DH, you benefitted from its existence passively.
Now that passive protection is gone, so even if you never used it you are still heavily affected by the DH nerf as asurvivor
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That's not the point of the post, the point of the post was to point out the people who are solely blaming dead hard when survivors ask for nerfs on killer things or for solo queue to be buffed. Majority of the post I have seen talking about these topics don't even mention that hard, but talk about how killers were over-buffed, or how solo queue was left on the back burner.
But I've seen way too many people, who are saying that it's just because they relied on that one perk, even though there were quite a few people who didn't even use the perk. They think that's the only reason that someone could survive, regardless if they ran it or not, because killers were worried if they would have it, then they would lose time when they swung and missed.
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DH was extremely good. If you say otherwise, you're either lying or newer to the game.
Old BL was also extremely broken with how horribly balanced a lot of maps were back then. Literal infinites. Again, if you say otherwise, you're either lying or you're newer to the game.
SC is actually a very good solo queue perk if used correctly. If someone needs to go save yet everyone is injured and no ones around, you gotta commit and go for it.
Also I don't think you quite understand what "Anti-loop" is since half of the killers you mentioned don't have anti-loop.
I promise, killer mains are not out to get you like the boogeymen you think they are.
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And for me it would be survs standing at the gates for no reason other than to waste time, that's their hurrr killer is bad look you cannot getz me hur hur hur dur.
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2.500 hours for me. But okay, how was SC bad? Give me reasons and Ill debunk each one.
Anti loop is when a killer can completely negate any sort of mindgame and can shut down loops with ease. So Clown, Nemesis, Artisit. Not Bubba, Billy, Legion, Wraith, etc. If you look at killers like Wraith and scream "Anti loop", you're probably not as experienced as you think.
Oh dear, its the "You don't agree with all killer mains being terrible people? Must be a killer main." argument. Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night. Make sure to check your closet and under your bed before you sleep, killer mains might be there.
The points I decided to tackle were the ones I thought to be more simple to address. However, if someone disagreeing with you is "disrespectful and condescending", I saved myself the trouble to responding to every point.
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I was responding to this mentality from the OP; ""Yep, keep crying cuz your precious DH is gone, gg ez bozo!""
Survivors waiting at the gate to click and taunt are equally dumb.
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