The meta is pretty much the same for killers after this patch
I know that a lot has already been said about the nerf to the solo q, but I think that something that has not been mentioned is how this supposed patch did not change the build of the killers at all. I keep reading and reading about how this patch was about "shaking up the meta" I read it from killers and specially from the devs. But besides shaking it for survivors, the meta is pretty much the same for killers.
Of the games I've played as solo q, I still see the same perks in all of them: BBQ & Chilli, Save the best for last, all of the gen regression perks and of course, I keep seeing Noed (As if the killers didn't already have enough help, they keep using Noed) and with new additions like thana, buts besides that, is pretty much the same.
Which is a bit exhausting, because while the survivors have to adapt with the leftovers from the nerfed perks, the killers are still in a comfort zone, which in my opinion is one of the big problems with this patch, there was no "New meta" for the killers
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Disagree about as strongly as I can.
I think I've seen BBQ one time as a survivor in all of my games (and I'd know, because I'm running Distortion), while I've removed it from every killer build I was using it on. Don't even get me started on Ruin, Pop, Corrupt, Pain Resonance etc.
I've started running STBFL regularly on some killers where I didn't before. I still almost never see it as survivor (same as before) except on certain killers.
As a survivor, I see Thana just about every other game, yeah.
As a killer, I'm finding that Overcharge, Call of Brine, Eruption, and one other perk (usually Deadlock, Pain Resonance, Pop, Brutal, or Dragon's) works well on almost every killer. I almost never touched Overcharge or Eruption before the update. I did run Call of Brine, but I'm in the minority on that.
Dead Hard is gone.
Yes, the meta has changed.
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I would be happy to see BBQ and Chili over a real perk. No idea what the complaint is there.
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You are wrong.
The meta has changes. Ive seen a lot of Overcharge, Call of Brine, Dragon's Grip.
And I saw a lot of chase perks not much used before.
This patch is a blessing.
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The complaint is that in addition to the buffs to the base actions of the killers, the nerf and change of perks did not affect them at all, according to the devs the patch had to make both sides change their perks, but this change only affected to the survivors: all the killer perks are still useful or strong, and with the status of the survivors they are even worse, the only thing I appreciate is that I don't see so many "ruins" in my games anymore
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Only the survivors have been forced to change because of all the nerfs. Killers are still running slow down perks, I almost never see noed anymore probably because Killers realize they won't get any value out of it due to easy 4ks lol
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No, it has changed quite a bit. Ruin is dead, BBQ is out, PR + DMS is gone (used to go against that almost every match), Pop has been almost completely replaced by CoB and Overcharge.
Pretty much all of the old slowdown perks took a heavy hit and killers are running other things.
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Fake news. I know I've been using a huge variety of perks with few slowdown perks at all. The new setup on both sides is wide open.
I find myself using Nrutal Strength more than ever because it's nice to chew through pallets now.
As survivor I've seen tons of new builds on both sides. The idea that all survivor perks were destroyed is laughable. OTR is immensely powerful; Distortion got a huge buff; Though WGLF lost BP, the endurance buff is sweet. There are lots of new combos that make for good builds now. The problem is too many people are stuck in an old mindset and don't have the creativity to break out.
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I have seen a lot of perks I have never seen before in a match well I had known about them, but they were never used. People are using different perks, especially new buffed aura perks. To say that all killers are sticking to the old meta is disingenuous. It's like me saying survivors are still using dead hard and old meta perks like bt, ds, and unbreakable just because a few survivors are still using those builds doesn't mean all of them are that is why I won't make blanket statements because it's just silly.
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There's always going to be outliers, is every killer still running slow down perks? I don't see where anyone ever said that. Are many still? Yes, so for those players the meta shifted from one set of slowdown perks to another.
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No it is not. I used PR + DMS or Ruin + Pop. Now i am dropped DMS, Ruin and Pop from my builds.
Now i am using Thana for slowdown and PR for regression. And other 2 perks for information or chase.
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That's not been my experience. I have seen Noed once since the update.
As far as gen slow down goes its all about call of brine, overcharge, eruption, jolt, thana, and I still see corrupt a fair bit. Before it was pop, ruin/undying, tinkerer, BBQ, scourge hook pain res, dead man's switch.
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Considering people aren't using exact same perks as before, meta has already changed.
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The meta has changed, but the type of meta it is will always remain the same: a slowdown meta. The difference in this meta is that it is dominantly more focused on making survivor action speed slower through Thana, Gift of Pain, and Dying Light than through the regress and gen block perks we had before. I would say the slower action speed is more annoying but both metas probably had equal effectiveness.
However, just because the meta is this way doesn't mean you don't see people using different perks in general. Some people like myself don't use slowdown much at all. Chase, aura, and utility perks are a lot more fun to use for me. There has been a rise in players running STBFL and Brutal Strength recently.
On the survivor side, the meta still seems to be endurance and second-chance perk focused, but once again the type of perks being used to fill that role are different such as SB and OTR being used over DH and DS. All in all, both sides have the same type of meta respectivly as before but using different perks to fill those roles.
Once again, though, just because this is meta doesn't mean everyone is running these perks as of late. I have still seen variety in perks like some using Distortion, Lucky Break, and even Deception quite recently. I, myself, like using a healing or support build on the survivor side of things.
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You should try the new buffed aura reading perks as killer I have been having loads of fun with lethal huntress and other range killers, it really made aura reading builds amazing.
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It has definetely changed. If you are seeing the same perks it's probably from killers that are not aware about the changes made this patch.
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I don’t really see how kicking a gen with call of brine and over charge is any different from old Ruin.. The killer changes make up for pre nerf this update anyways lol..
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I haven't seen BBQ in over 100 games so IDK what you're talking about. I personally started using brutal strength and monstrous shrine. Monstrous combos well with devour. They care so much about being exposed that they let the teammate hit stage 2.
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Patch isn´t even 1 week old. Some people might not even be aware that the perks changed, because most people don´t visit the forum or read patch notes.
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I played against a Nemesis with Ruin, Undying, Corrupt and BBQ, aka someone who clearly didn't read the patch notes, and we were still demolished. :v
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That's almost no perk nemesis lol
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When you write old ruin, are you refering to old skill check Ruin or the newer old regression Ruin?
If the later the one, the difference is that with Call of Brine and Overcharge the killer has to actively kick the gen compared to it just happening passively with Ruin. Which leads to the difference that with Call of Brine and Overcharge a survivor can actually leave a gen and go for a save without worrying about losing progress on a gen on the other side of the map from the killers location. Quite a big difference in my opinion.
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Dragon's Grip is only being played because of the challenge. People gave up on making that perk work a long time ago.
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Let me clarify for those saying the meta hasn't changed: They're saying that perks have changed but the ideas are still there. You can't take off slowdown for killer and you can't take off anti-tunnel+ for survivor.
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Well for one, the killer has to kick a gen?
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False its a meta perk now paired with Overcharge
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It's even worse... There are still killers with 4 slowdowns despite the gens taking 10s more now... It's not even funny anymore, no wonder their queue is 10 mins, who in their sane mind would want to play against this?
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Maybe if behavior take away all killer weapon, survs will be happy (or not)
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I mean, i'll agree that what they did was shift the meta to just different slowdown perks, but you are gonna tell me that they didn't destroy pop and ruin?
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I'm starting to encounter the same survivor perks as last patch bar decisive.
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It is changed I think, more killers with Lethal pursuer and other aura reading, I see less killers with 4 slow down perks.
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For me its changed but more unfun way. Call of brine and Overcharge thana and dying light. I See that in 85 percentages my Matches as survivor.
And pain resonance ist Not really dead. Now you can use Surveillance too See where they working. Bye deadman..hello Surveillance.
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The meta is still "slow down gens." Except now it's not done out of necessity, it's done because it's so strong.
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I just see different slowdown perks and more of them. I don't see BBQ hardly ever. On PS4 I replaced BBQ with Deadlock for now. Seems counterproductive of BHVR, ruining a popular easily countered tracking perk just to open up a slot so killers could use more slowdowns. As survivor, I'd much rather a killer run BBQ than a gen/slowdown perk.
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That only applies if you define a meta in a general category. Ruin's done like dinner, Pop is almost never seen, etc. In return, both sides got more interesting opportunities to try out a more varied selection of perks.
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I have seen pop in all 4 matches today and several yesterday. It's going to be hard to verify any of this without data from BHVR, which I so look forward to seeing. Anecdotally, it's been a ######### show for survivors and it really just doubled down on the slowdown meta. But maybe they see something different across the board.
Either way, playing solo q survivor right now sucks.
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The opportunities might exist, but don't matter if no one is biting. It went from one set of slow-down perks to another. The only variety is which combination of slow-down perks is at play.
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That would be interesting. Thana gives the same effect in time wastage per gen that Pop got each pop so it would be interesting to see how much Thana replaced Pop. Personally, I don't think Pop is really worth running anymore over a good chase perk.
My experience haS been pretty good so far in solo but the only perk I used that got nerfed was DS and that got replaced by the superior OTR so I think I was in a better situation than many to deal with it.
If you don't mind me suggesting a build have you tried Deliverance, SB, OTR and something else? I've gotten pretty good results from those.
OTR, Overcome and Lucky Break have worked pretty well for me too. I hope it gets better for you.
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I don't really see how the main Killer meta can't be a slow down meta though while the generator mechanic exists. The only other real option is to make Killers so strong in chase that gen slowdown is superfluous.
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The justification for stacking slow-down perks was because base kit generators weren't slow enough; we now see it will never be slow enough. It's also evident that even the improvements on CD and chases aren't enough. The Killer will still run slow-down perks, tunnel, and camp.
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It will always be in play as long as it's effective. The OTR and Lucky Break buffs were good steps to combatting it but, now that Killers have QoL buffs, I'm in favor of further anti-camping and anti-tunneling buffs. Especially since DS is back to 3 seconds I'd like it activating on both hooks and possibly basekit. Or perhaps a buff to the base BT timer to something like 20 seconds with Conspicuous Actions removing it.
I also wouldn't object to Kinship getting a buff as well.
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You're absolutely right. The only thing that I bring up is the fact that I recall the devs saying they wanted killers to be using less gen slowdown perks. A lot of killers before the update had builds dominated by the slowing of gens in any way due to just how fast they were going.
That goal has sort of been met, but at the same time, killers are still gonna run the slowdown perks. After all, the game is centered around the generators. Furthermore, they've changed the perks themselves, some to be stronger and others to be weaker. Obviously most of these changes were based around the usage rate of the perks themselves, as opposed to the "category" you could apply to what they do.
In my mind, the slowdown perks are mostly fine, and don't change the game as drastically as some people might make it out to be (im looking at you, thana). It just seems like an unfulfilled wish of the dev team, which I've sort of echoed since the update came out. Even when playing killer, I don't necessarily want to run gen slowdown perks, but I find myself running them more often than not cause they're still, if not more, helpful than they were before, what with the increased generator time and whatnot.
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That's fair. You might run into a killer running a bunch of slowdown, but nowadays it's more of a proper slowdown build rather than just a necessity if the killer wants the game to be longer than 5 minutes
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Yes, if you ignore all the different perks that people are using, the meta hasn't changed at all. Brilliant observation.
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I don't know ... Scourge Hook: Pain Res was the perk that saved playing killer for me, because of the breathing room it creates without needing to move over to a gen with pgtw. It also gave that distant explosion and therefore gave you a new objection to check and kinda gave an incentive not to camp.
Now Pain Res is still a very good perk, but it feels less rewarding and super empty. You hook someone and ... nothing. Did it work? Was there a gen? Or were all untouched? Who knows? You hook someone on a white hook and stand there, puzzled, unsure what to do. I know that PainRes+DMS was a killer combo (heh), but I feel that taking away the gen explosion really was a step too far. If they had just removed the screaming and throwing survivors off of gens part I think it would have been enough? Now everyone is still running it, because its basically the only regression perk thats worth its slot, but you might just proxy camp that hook and trade instead of patroling gens for the lucky find, but maybe loosing all pressure if you chose the wrong one.
But I now often combo PainRes with Gift of Pain, which was totally not worth it in the past. Now its a nice, juicy combo and ideally I don't want to damage anyone unhooked from that one anytime soon, just to spread the pain around. Because of this combo I often run Agitation. The last slot is either Jolt, for some added gen damage or, oddly enough, Spied from the Shadows, which always has been one of my favorite perks.
Jolt is now one of the most rare perks because I havn't unlocked it on all my killers. I want to go on an unlocking spree soon, but I first need to level up Blight some 1.5 prestige levels to finally have all killers on P3.
I havn't equipped BBQ a single time since the nerf. Its still a solid info perk, but on its own its not good enough for me to warrant its constant use, even though I sometimes miss the gameplay loop of "hook. Look around. Move to a distant part of the map." WGLF got some compensation for taking away its BP reward, and that perk wasn't even as prevalent as BBQ. But whatever, I am fine with nearly all the changes, so I can't cherry pick something small like this ^^
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Still see plenty of BBQ and Pop. Occasional Ruin and DMS. Pain Res + DMS were meta for like 3 months lol.
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mean, I just got hard tunneled by a blight who said that if he hadn't hard tunneled me, he would have lost. So that's fun, that's still a way killers can force a win.
I don't take deliverance. Every time I do, I'm the first one found or somehow the first one hooked after they hit someone else. Something about me entices them, idk. Either way, it's happened so often that I just don't bother anymore. I will try OTR, SB, maybe lucky break or lightweight.
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I think a lot of the time you see BBQ and Pop it's because people didn't change their loadout, lol
But seriously I loaded into a match last night as Huntress and realized I still had my pre-patch loadout on her.
And the PR + DMS meta wasn't long (was it 3 months? I feel like it was like 6, but I may be wrong), but it was everywhere, and it was powerful. More powerful than any slowdowns now.
Every old killer meta has been killed off to some degree.
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It's a bit one sided, yeah. But pretty much every other major set of changes over the past few years have favored survs, without question. And that makes sense since survs comprise the vast majority of the playerbase. But people who play only or mainly surv are on the wrong end of an update for the first time in recent memory, and it's a odd feeling, I bet. But they'll get over it.
As far as the changes, gens take longer, but the new slowdown perks are definitely worse, so I think gen speeds are a wash, honestly. But as a conversation strictly about the meta, yeah, my loadouts look a lot different than they did a couple of weeks ago. I use fewer slowdown perks, more aura perks, more hemorrhage/mangle inflicting perks.
The surv meta was much more stagnant than the killer meta before, and the killer meta was always more fluid; more good to very good perks, a lot fewer straight up OP perks (there were some, but they were nerfed hard, and quickly).
The problem with the surv meta is that it was really top heavy, to the point where it seemed silly not to run the strongest perks. That said, I'd bet they revert the DS stun time at some point, but I don't think old DH is coming back. And if you continue to run BT (as I do, I see no reason not to), you actually get an enhanced version with the new basekit changes.
The reason the changes feel so bad to some is that the surv meta was left as it was for way too long.
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