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Old Freddy Gameplay
Whenever I'm in that missing old Freddy mood, I like to watch gameplay of him with his old power. Thought I'd share a video of the power here for those that never experienced it or want to relive it again as I do.
Comments
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The best designed killer and he took from us. Nobody asked for rework but yet, BHVR did.
@GeneralV has topic to make him feel better and stronger. But they just changed Freddy instead buffing his basekit.
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Ah, what a pleasant surprise!
This, my friend, brings a smile to my face.
I have a video recommendation for you, and for everyone who is interested.
I hope you find it fun!
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It makes more sense for the character but it was far worse imo.
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Best designed killer in what way?!
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Unique and fun.
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"Hang on guys, I have to stand here awkwardly for like 6 seconds before I can actually hit you." What made that play style fun? Genuinely curious.
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Dead hard/run into the pallet, drop it and hit the killer, but dies anyway.
interesting.
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Nobody asked for a rework??
you either werent there during those times or living under a rock
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Old Autoheaven with Old Freddy's Dream World. I miss them so much.
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Nobody asked for rework
Blatantly false, people back then very much did ask for a rework to freddy since he was considered by many to be the worst killer of the entire roster.
Post edited by Smoe on2 -
People were asking for significant buffs, not a rework.
All he really needed was smoother flickers in transition, reduced transition time to 6 seconds, and increased power range. That's it. He would've been probably solid mid tier in the current state of the game especially since self care got deleted from the game.
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From what I remember, there were some asking for a rework but more people were asking for simple buffs. On-release Freddy was a good killer that was nerfed in the first week of him being out due to people not knowing how to face against him. I think the devs back then panicked and nerfed him too quick.
If Freddy were reverted to on-release Freddy with some nice buffs that @GeneralV suggested such as survivors in the dream transition suffer from the incapacitated status effect until fully asleep and keeping the current gen teleporting power, then Freddy would be a unique tracking power killer able to debuff those in his dream world and can occasionally have map mobility. Most of all, you'd actually feel like Freddy Krueger when playing him.
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Even if they didn't have a knee jerk reaction with nerfing him, release Freddy still wouldn't have lasted because he was very unpopular both to play as and against according to Peanits.
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Ayy, thank you!
When I made that Freddy concept, I aimed for a perfect power, and it warms my heart to see that I might have succeeded.
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how did Nea used DS at the start of the match and without getting hooked?
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DS did not have many requirements way back then.
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Since people are trying to make old Freddy seem like a decent Killer by withholding his negatives and only showing off the good (evidence of an agenda?) let me remind everyone here that:
- Self-Care destroyed Freddy by allowing Survivors to get skill checks anywhere and everywhere, allowing you to bully Freddy easily
- Freddy had absolutely no power whatsoever. No anti-loop, no mobility, bad "stealth" killer, 100% M1. His games would involve him getting the game to 20 mins to break EVERY SINGLE pallet on the map because he was powerless. Which isn't fun for Survivors or Freddy.
- You could unhook and pick up Survivors right in front of Freddy and there was nothing you can do as Freddy. Endgame bodyblocking situations? Basically gg ez, you WILL fail to secure a kill as Freddy
- Was described as a snoozefest to go against, was considered the worst Killer in the game, worse than 1.0 Legion
The strongest "ARGUMENT" for old Freddy was him being "uNiQuE" (by being a garbage Killer) aaaaaand that's it. Old Freddy deserved to go, unhealthy for game in every way.
Stop focusing on the past, and look to the future. Focus on buffing current Freddy, not bringing back BAD DESIGNS.
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DS was unnerfed at the time and this footage is from pre-work DS
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This is false, the forums were very excited for the rework.
And nope, he needed an entire rework. This footage actually shows one of the biggest problems for me, right at 1:42. I also explained almost every single negative he had in my post.
Stop listening to GeneralV on old Freddy, he was in an argument a few months ago and his argument came down to "but but UNIQUE". He doesn't care if old Freddy was bad, he admitted as much.
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1. Self-Care definitely isn't doing much now with its change in this patch
2. Freddy's power revolved around information through auras and debuffing survivors in the dream world. When I played him back then, the best way to make use out of his power was to gather as many people in the dream world as possible to know where they are at all times. Combine this with a buff of dream transition survivors being incapacitated and keeping the gen teleport ability, and you have yourself a decent m1 killer that has constant information and map mobility.
3. This status effect didn't exist back then, but if they made survivors in the dream transition state be affected by incapacitated, then that scenario wouldn't happen as it'd make the survivors unable to heal up the downed survivor.
4. Definitely I think they should have reduced the slowdown he caused. Removing the current Freddy's slowdown add-ons, which were add-ons in old Freddy's kit as well, would have been a step in the right direction for Old Freddy too.
Whether they can fix this current Freddy or not does not change the fact that they definitely could have fixed old Freddy as well through viable buffs and that many of us still enjoyed old Freddy's power and prefer it over the current one. I understand you prefer the current Freddy though and that is completely fine of an opinion to have as well.
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While he was kinda terrible back then (Just due to how strong maps and Survivors were) I feel like old Freddy would have a place in modern DBD
He’d be a less mobile but more info/slowdown oriented sadako basically
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That's exactly how I feel. The game was rough for him back then, but the game has changed since to make most killers viable and I believe that includes him as well.
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- Probably. Still doesn't change the fact that it can bully Freddy, and that's what is relevant to this discussion.
- Thing is, Legion 1.0 had the same thing and they were still considered bad, because downing is everything, injuring is half of the journey. Info only gets you so far, it's following UP on that info that matters the most. Also, your suggestion doesn't change Freddy still being M1 and still having no chase power. In fact, it makes Freddy an obnoxious slow down killer that would be widely hated. People hate doing gens atm and always did, getting slept repeatedly for 20 min games? Not fun.
- You could still do hook saves in front of Freddy, and as I said before about long, no gens done games...
- Oh no no, I didn't mean his add-ons. I meant his basekit. Getting slept repeatedly isn't fun, and NEEDING 20 min games as Freddy isn't fun either.
And no, Freddy's core design was bad, there's simply no fixing saving in front of the Killer, this video in the OP straight up has said saves in the video, and "many of us" is a minority on these forums.
"I understand you prefer the current Freddy though and that is completely fine of an opinion to have as well."
I said more than that. That we should look to the future, and we should, instead of looking to the past. We need to fix current DBD now.
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Except for the fact that I mained old freddy before his rework, after which I moved to legion, so I know what he was like. And judging by your other comment you clearly did not have a clue on how he was good in his own ways.
- Chase power in the form of dream transition flickers, which were even stronger when paired with the sheep block add on.
- To this day had the best tracking in the game, this along with his flickers made him a very good hit and run killer as you could find others easily if you had to drop chase.
- His hit and run was made even better by the fact that asleep survivors had to wake up, so they would either waste time self caring and failing a skillcheck (which also gave away their location) or fail a gen skillcheck which gave even more pressure, or get woken up by someone else in which case 2 people are now grouped up and you can capitalise on that.
- Class photo existed.
- People hook bombing against freddy guaranteed 2 people asleep.
- Could find awake survivors absurdly easily with power range add ons.
- Short killer so he could mindgame more loops (combined with flickers made him dangerous at filler pallets)
You wanna know why freddy was regarded as bad? Barely anybody knew how to play him and the entire community regurgitated what content creators said about him which was "sEvEn sEcOnD fEdOrA mAn bAd".
Don't get me wrong, he wasn't amazing. Map design at the time was absolutely awful and survivors could predrop for days with no punishment which is why I wouldn't of put him above mid tier. But to say he was just an M1 killer shows you really didn't know much about how he worked.
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pretty sure it was 7 seconds, if I am not mistaken.
-Ex old Freddy main.
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Says the person with a Mikey profile picture XD
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Even with the changes you just suggested he would just be a worst Sadako.
And no people weren't asking for significant buffs, they were asking for a rework. What they weren't asking for how ever, was a rework that completely changed the way he was played and his identity.
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Self-Care destroyed him because it allowed Survivors to break from sleep easily, even mid chase after throwing a pallet, forcing Freddy to sleep them again, granted Self Care isnt used as much anymore but it would still be decimating against him.
Incapacitation on asleep Survivors? thats beyond broken, the only way you had to break out of asleep by yourself was missing a skillcheck or being hooked, sure awake Survivors could break you out of it but if the 4 were asleep with incapacitation nobody would be able to progress the generators ever, even with the newer alarm clocks it would be beyond broken.
Freddy only real strength was once the Exit Gates were powered if you put everyone to sleep there was no way to break out of it except getting hooked or missing a skillcheck while healing, since being asleep increased every action timer by 50% the Exit Gates took 30 seconds which allowed him to have an easier time at 5 gens, thats why all his perks revolved about the Exit Gates being powered, you could only do something with him once all 5 gens were done and by that time the Survivors would just 99% them while you downed someone and then prepare for the save (or wait for the hook, open and get away to bypass Bloodwarden).
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Any new Freddys waiting should have juggle between the survivors. Most run the blocks to decrease it but majority run other things
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Remember one punch Freddy with rancor,pwyf and STBFL? I always did enjoy using the Nancy drawing and the class pre-work.
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I know self-care was his weakness back then. If I recall, all actions had a reduced chance of getting a skill check, with add-ons that reduced it further, while survivors were in the dream world to counter this. Although all I'm saying now is that most people don't usually run Self Care with all the other perks we have today, especially now that they practically butchered it.
And no, I didn't mean asleep survivors were incapacitated (that would mean they could never wake up or do gens). I mean survivors in the dream transition state (that 7 second period when the Nightmare first pulls a survivor in) are incapacitated. This would prevent survivors from doing gens in his face, healing downed survivors in his face, and immediately waking up before falling asleep completely.
I agree that old Freddy was always a pretty good endgame tracking killer, but I believe that the current state of the game would have a good place for him and help him perform better.
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That second paragraph is actually a VERY good point. Incapacitation while asleep would make Freddy extremely broken for slowdown, since the number 1 way for removing sleep was blowing up skill checks. Dream clocks wouldn't be enough, Self-Care would become meta.
You'd have to drastically change old Freddy in order to make him actually fun for both sides, people WILL complain otherwise. And if he was changed, then this crowd would complain about how "it isn't old Freddy".
The "many" who agree with GeneralV and Remediast is a small minority of people with high post count who have forgotten what old Freddy was like or didn't care about doing well. The forums will be flooded with complaints if old Freddy was brought back in the way he was.
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My response to that comment for some reason didn't show up (I think being reviewed), but I didn't mean asleep survivors would be incapacitated (because then they literally couldn't wake up). I meant survivors in the dream transition state (that 7 second period when Freddy pulls survivors into the dream world) would make them incapacitated and only during that time. This would mean that survivors cannot finish gens or pick up downed survivors in his face when he initially pulls them in for those 7 seconds where he cannot hit them as well but gives them time to run to a loop or something so he doesn't get an insta down with STBFL or something.
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Man, both times I responded to comments for some reason needs to be approved. Not sure why.
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"didn't know much about how he worked" Yeah, see, I actually played Freddy and got him to P1, plus did his trophies. I got to see how "he was good in his own ways" for myself at rank 1 (when MMR wasn't active at the time).
- Flickers? That's... it? Sadako has the same thing, look at where she places on tier lists.
- You would lose aura revealing of a Survivor if they got within your TR, you needed builds or perks like Insidious to make auras appear closer than they should be able to. Also not good at hit and run if no mobility + can't get hits easily, spends a lot of time trying to take health states BECAUSE he is m1.
- His lack of mobility made it hard to follow up on failed skill checks, Survivors could remake all of the lost progress fairly fast especially if he committed to any kind of chase, he would also struggle to resleep people, oftentimes having to walk across the map to resleep a Survivors... while gens were being progressed all the while. And even if he kept sleeping people... that's bad. That ties into what I'm saying about 20 min games. That's NOT fun for the Survivors.
- I looked up class photo... garbage add-on. I absolutely do not see your point whatsoever in bringing this up. Sleep is a bad mechanic, this add-on is for a "hit and run" playstyle that doesn't work.
- So what.
- Doesn't matter heavily because of Survivor third person camera and flickers were almost worthless IIRC. Inconsistent and too hard to control, just like Sadako's "flickers".
Nah, Freddy was actually regarded as bad because this community played as and against him, and nobody found it fun. You either got 20 min games as Freddy because you couldn't down anyone and needed to keep resleeping people because people would bully you, and heal in front of your face + Survivors found these games unfun, or you got a very easy 4 man escape against Freddy because it was easy to save against him at any moment because had no hook defense unlike normal M1s and no anti-loop, so looping him for days was easy. Freddy would STILL be bad even in modern DBD, because he would need Bloodlust or M1 Killer mindgames to get hits, and we all know how reliable mindgames can be in today's meta...
Map design is still bad btw, huge maps like Haddonfield and Midwich exist.
"But to say he was just an M1 killer shows you really didn't know much about how he worked."
Would be nice if people remembered just how bad old Freddy was instead of letting nostalgia blind them. Or watch videos like the one OP showed and remember that way instead.
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I mean, he's my profile because he's my favorite horror movie killer. XD in the game, Myers can still hit people in tier 1. Freddy just seemed like he could've been easily bullied. Purposely failing a skill check to wake up, robbing him of being able to attack. Unless I'm missing something. I genuinely am curious about what made him fun
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I don't know why my comments were deleted when I responded separately to these your posts, but I'll try responding to them here anyway.
I understand Self-Care was a problem. If I recall, they even reduced the amount of skillchecks that occurred for survivors in the dream world, and add-ons that reduced it further, to counter this. I don't think Self Care would be that much of a problem today because there are more useful perks that people run due to the sheer number of perks we have today compared to back then. Also they nerfed Self Care to oblivion now.
Also, I didn't mean that survivors in the dream world are incapacitated (because that would literally mean they cannot wake up). I meant that survivors in the dream transition state (the 7 seconds when Freddy pulls a survivor into the dream world and cannot attack them momentarily) would be affected by incapacitated until that transition ends and then they'd be fully asleep and not affected anymore. This would mean that the survivors cannot finish a gen or heal a downed survivor in his face while he cannot attack them but still allow the survivors some time to get to a loop without being almost insta-downed by STBFL or something.
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I too loved standing around and doing nothing for inordinate amounts of time.
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I would definitely welcome old Freddy because current Freddy is extremely generic and boring
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Jeez, what has this thread become? It was supposed to be wholesome and, maybe, educational.
Not yet another pointless discussions.
Ah, I suppose I can always count on bad apples to ruin things related to MY killer, can't I? What a sad state of affairs.
Thank you, mate ;)
You don't know how happy I am to read comments like yours.
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I was never a very good killer so my opinion is that of a casual player. Which this game is supposedly balanced around.
I remember being excited for Freddy's changes because admittedly he was weak. But he was fun too.
I played one game as new Freddy and hardly touched him since. The rework removed his personality.
I was hoping for some changes that kept the essence of the character. Yes he had major flaws, but it would have been entirely possible to keep the core of Freddy while making him more relevant.
The new Freddy may be 'better' but he is not enjoyable either to play or face.
I am not forgetting his flaws. I am not only remembering the good times.
I mean, locking Pallets while transitioning would have made a huge difference. Incapacitating during transition would have been great also.
Many ideas have been shared that would have kept his core being intact while increasing his viability. But oh well. At least dream Pallets are a thing?
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Thing is, from the moment the OP was posted, it was about glorifying old Freddy and "remembering the good old days". Which would we be fine if people didn't then try to push the "old Freddy was well-designed" bit... he wasn't for the weaknesses described previously.
And yeah, you just considered an statement you like to be "wholesome". I'm assuming people who point out old Freddy's weaknesses like me are bad apples, then?
Like, you didn't name drop me, but if I remember the flow of the topic, I'm pretty sure you mean me.
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I wasnt here for old Freddy, but what exactly was peoples problem with him? The fact that hes into NTR? Because I love Judith's Tombstone despite the gameplay loop being just "Staring at survivors menacingly and Break Pallet simulator"
I think theres room in this game for a more passive killer.
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For better clarification, I would read some of my posts throughout this topic, but it basically boils down to old Freddy being a weak, M1, powerless killer, unfun to play against Killer, who was even worse than current Freddy. The video at 1:42 I believe has that happening.
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I do think there is a place for him in modern DBD as well (except for one aspect which I will get into). Freddy was a tracking killer mostly. He could pull survivors into the dream world using his power and if they were outside his TR, he could see their auras. Survivors in the dream world also suffered from an action speed penalty.
This is what I think most survivors didn't like. Back then, there weren't many gen regress perks so his power being this way was fine for the most part. However many Freddy players used Dying Light + Thanatophobia to further increase that action speed penalty (he add add-ons that could do it as well). This is where the term "Forever Freddy" came from because objectives too forever to do. Obviously if he were the same today, that would be even worse considering the current meta of killer has plenty of slowdown perks to choose from.
Therefore, I think if he were to be added back, they should change the action speed penalty to a different debuff and I think both sides would be happy with his tracking power afterwards. That's just my thinking of it anyway.
And yeah, my original post was just showing what Old Freddy was like for those that never experienced it or wanted to relive it again. I do still think his older power could work if they change the action speed penalty for a different debuff because obviously nobody enjoyed Forever Freddy back then, but his gameplay without those slowdown perks was interesting and just needed some small buffs in my opinion. Either way though, they definitely need to do something with Freddy whether they give him a buffed and slightly changed old power or fix his current one because I think everyone can agree he is not in a good state.
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Regarding the swap from action speed debuff to another debuff, it could be that asleep survivors couldnt see wake survivors, so the wake ones would need to catch the sleeping ones to wake them, plus missed skillchecks dont wake up survivors but the clocks from todays freddy continue existing, just a idea
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Yeah, I think a blindness debuff in general would be interesting since it'd be like "the Nightmare can see your aura out of his TR but you cannot see any auras at all" type of thing. Survivors already had a reduced skill check chance in general to prevent easy wake ups so he already debuffed them in a good way and wouldn't need the action speed penalty in this era of DBD imo.
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