RUIN is crutch?
I killed all and the last survivor went absolute mad and was so triggered about me using ruin on billy. She was telling me that ruin is a crutch and only bad killers need that, especially on billy.
She complained about slugging the 2nd last survivor aswell but I only did that cuz she was standing right next to him trying to heal.
I never had issues vs ruin, is this a normal complain?
Comments
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I remember you from the forums multiple times.
I'm very doubtful that this is serious.Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose.
Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it.
Y'know, while they run meta without shame.8 -
Yes, if you read the forums here and on Steam you will see that everything the other side use to help them will be called a "crutch" and if something gets nerfed after lots of complaints or changes then dont worry as they will soon move onto another and another, it is never ending.
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Any perk in the game is, well, game. Including the lamest ones like DS and NOED. Same goes for items, add-ons and offerings.
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There are rules and there are survivor rules
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Some people will look for anything and everything to blame for the loss, other than themselves of course.
If it's something that helped you kill them or delay the game, it's a crutch and you're a bad killer for using it.
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Ruin is needed to slow the game down just a little bit as Monto would say. Its far from being a crutch perk.
But the thing with ruin is that it often isn't very useful. Usually it gets taken out early in the game, or skilled players can just work through it.
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
Ruin is needed to slow the game down just a little bit as Monto would say. Its far from being a crutch perk.But the thing with ruin is that it often isn't very useful. Usually it gets taken out early in the game, or skilled players can just work through it.
I don't use it on any killer for those reasons. I prefer equipping perks that will help all game long.
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thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with them1
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And those sadistic survivors take away my crutch a few seconds into the game..... classic :sarcastic:
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All perks are crutches to someone. I've had people rage about bitter murmurs in post game chat (Old one, that was end game auras only. The entity wouldn't give me any decent perks, don't judge me for my bad builds lol).
Also been raged at about a no mither build because faster gens. NO FREAKING MITHER.
If there is something that exists in this game, someone will eventually think it's broken.
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@artist said:
thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with themI disagree. Perks are tools, and skilled players use their preferred tools to play better. You can't say a killer (or survivor) is bad for using certain perks. Those are their preferred tools to get the job done.
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It's a normal complaint because Survivors want to have their wins handed to them with no challenge whatsoever.
I'm waiting for the day when someone calls Surveillance a crutch perk.
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Ofc it's serious, why do you remember me different?Boss said:I remember you from the forums multiple times.
I'm very doubtful that this is serious.Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose.
Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it.
Y'know, while they run meta without shame.0 -
Its not crutch, coming from the possibility that they ran ds or something due to them saying its crutch all the time, but you can literally hit great skill checks and get the gen done and get 150 hex skill check to objective
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Ruin is a horribly designed perk. It punishes new players very hard and has little impact on veteran players due to skill checks and totem location memorization.
Ps4 survivors are so bad since it went free to play 4man 5genning is common with Ruin at r1.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Boss said:I remember you from the forums multiple times.
I'm very doubtful that this is serious.
Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose.
Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it.
Y'know, while they run meta without shame.
Ofc it's serious, why do you remember me different?
Oh, okay.
Didn't expect you to.
I figured you knew more about the game than a newbie.
And it's pretty common knowledge many complain about much.
But alright.1 -
reread what I said. if you NEED ruin on billy to win, then you are bad. not if u use it, you are automatically badCondorloco_26 said:@artist said:
thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with themI disagree. Perks are tools, and skilled players use their preferred tools to play better. You can't say a killer (or survivor) is bad for using certain perks. Those are their preferred tools to get the job done.
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It's not a crutch. Easily destroyed and easy to work through
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I never run ruin before, and I didn't expected that much rage at endgame chat. I mean, they raged as much as if I had done a NOED Insidious camping build just to be toxic.Boss said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Boss said:I remember you from the forums multiple times.
I'm very doubtful that this is serious.
Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose.
Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it.
Y'know, while they run meta without shame.
Ofc it's serious, why do you remember me different?
Oh, okay.
Didn't expect you to.
I figured you knew more about the game than a newbie.
And it's pretty common knowledge many complain about much.
But alright.0 -
@artist said:
I believe the topic was ruin tho ??The topic is whether Ruin is a crutch or not. You said it is on certain characters, I responded that the same could be said of any perk on any character. Then you tried a little ad hominem, but it backfired because I don't do any of the things you said I did. Now you're trying to stray away from your initial statement because I backed you into a wall.
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@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Boss said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Boss said:
I remember you from the forums multiple times. I'm very doubtful that this is serious. Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose. Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it. Y'know, while they run meta without shame.
Ofc it's serious, why do you remember me different?
Oh, okay.
Didn't expect you to.
I figured you knew more about the game than a newbie.
And it's pretty common knowledge many complain about much.
But alright.
I never run ruin before, and I didn't expected that much rage at endgame chat. I mean, they raged as much as if I had done a NOED Insidious camping build just to be toxic.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could additionally be that they're just easily triggered.0 -
it's nothing to rage about. dunno why they got so upsetDwightsLifeMatters said:
I never run ruin before, and I didn't expected that much rage at endgame chat. I mean, they raged as much as if I had done a NOED Insidious camping build just to be toxic.Boss said:@DwightsLifeMatters said:
Boss said:I remember you from the forums multiple times.
I'm very doubtful that this is serious.
Anyway, if it is serious: Yes, it's normal since complaints in general are normal if they lose.
Had some Survivors complain i was using Spine Chill, saying i suck for needing it.
Y'know, while they run meta without shame.
Ofc it's serious, why do you remember me different?
Oh, okay.
Didn't expect you to.
I figured you knew more about the game than a newbie.
And it's pretty common knowledge many complain about much.
But alright.0 -
If a crutch perk can be destroyed or outright ignored by hitting great skillchecks or perks, maybe the problem isn't the crutch. Maybe its between your chair and your keyboard.artist said:2 -
@ChesterTheMolester said:
Maybe its between your chair and your keyboard.This quote + your name.
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By definition every perk is a crutch
And yes, even No Mither1 -
Prepare your anu... i meant arguments.Boss said:@ChesterTheMolester said:
Maybe its between your chair and your keyboard.This quote + your name.
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yeah buddy? there was nothing to argue about because you gave no reasoning as to why you think that about what I said. just a vague "what you're saying is meaningless" you had nothing to contribute and I wonder why that is.Orion said:@artist said:
I believe the topic was ruin tho ??The topic is whether Ruin is a crutch or not. You said it is on certain characters, I responded that the same could be said of any perk on any character. Then you tried a little ad hominem, but it backfired because I don't do any of the things you said I did. Now you're trying to stray away from your initial statement because I backed you into a wall.
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@artist said:
yeah buddy? there was nothing to argue about because you gave no reasoning as to why you think that about what I said. just a vague "what you're saying is meaningless" you had nothing to contribute and I wonder why that is.@Dragonredking summarized it pretty well. A crutch helps you do something you can't normally do. Every perk unlocks abilities that you wouldn't otherwise have access to. By definition, every perk is a crutch. This also applies to items, add-ons, offerings, and SWF.
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@artist said:
reread what I said. if you NEED ruin on billy to win, then you are bad. not if u use it, you are automatically bad
I would say if a R1 billy or nurse 'needed' Ruin to win a game against a highly coordinated and efficient 4 man SWF team, that Billy or Nurse just found his optimal setup, one that allows him to be competitive against even the worst odds.
In my case, I don't use Ruin because I don't like it, and it's not a part of my optimal setup. Same goes for NOED, or when playing survivor, DS. I just don't like them and I think are not optimal. But I wouldn't say anyone 'needing' them would be bad.
And just a comment, pal. If you're going to tell someone to reread what you said, you should first reread it. Nowhere in your original comment you mentioned "to win".
@artist said:
thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with them1 -
lol what else do u need ruin for? to slow the game down? and why do u need to do that? oh right. to win. simple things like that can be interpreted if u think a little bit.Condorloco_26 said:@artist said:
reread what I said. if you NEED ruin on billy to win, then you are bad. not if u use it, you are automatically bad
I would say if a R1 billy or nurse 'needed' Ruin to win a game against a highly coordinated and efficient 4 man SWF team, that Billy or Nurse just found his optimal setup, one that allows him to be competitive against even the worst odds.
In my case, I don't use Ruin because I don't like it, and it's not a part of my optimal setup. Same goes for NOED, or when playing survivor, DS. I just don't like them and I think are not optimal. But I wouldn't say anyone 'needing' them would be bad.
And just a comment, pal. If you're going to tell someone to reread what you said, you should first reread it. Nowhere in your original comment you mentioned "to win".
@artist said:
thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with them
also. rank doesnt matter.0 -
@artist said:
lol what else do u need ruin for? to slow the game down? and why do u need to do that? oh right. to win. simple things like that can be interpreted if u think a little bit.
also. rank doesnt matter.
Reread doesn't equal interpret. I could interpret whatever I want out of your comments, but I choose not to. Your opinion about rank not mattering could be interpreted as clearly having never played killer (and winning) at R1 against highly coordinated and efficient 4 man SWF teams.
But I choose not to interpret it, because I could be wrong and look like a fool. So instead I will ask directly, have you?
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I wasnt linking you interpreting what I said to you rereading it. I was saying if you thought about what I meant when I first said if you need ruin...Condorloco_26 said:@artist said:
lol what else do u need ruin for? to slow the game down? and why do u need to do that? oh right. to win. simple things like that can be interpreted if u think a little bit.
also. rank doesnt matter.
Reread doesn't equal interpret. I could interpret whatever I want out of your comments, but I choose not to. Your opinion about rank not mattering could be interpreted as clearly having never played killer (and winning) at R1 against highly coordinated and efficient 4 man SWF teams.
But I choose not to interpret it, because I could be wrong and look like a fool. So instead I will ask directly, have you?
and yeah I've definitely held my own against swf playing as someone as bad as doctor. I couldnt have done it without ruin tho !!0 -
Yeah not to sound like an ass but this is right.artist said:thing is ruin isn't needed on top tier killers because you should be applying a lot of pressure already. if you do need it on a billy or nurse you're most likely bad with them
If you NEED Ruin then it is by definition a crutch. You don't need Ruin, there are plenty of streamers out there who can consistently win with any killer without ruin. However obviously not everyone is going to be at this level. That said, if you absolutely need Ruin on top tier killers like Billy or Nurse then chances are you're doing something wrong. Yoi shouldn't need it for them.
It makes sense on killers like Hag, trapper or even Myers though. These people need the extra time to set up their powers. Hag especially because she's also slow at crossing the map, and it was designed for her.
It's like how people kind of understand when someone using Freddy takes NOED, but it just looks sad when someone needs to take NOED on Billy or Nurse.
I see plenty of Nurses and Billys take both NOED and Ruin. Its like, how much do you need to win?3 -
@The_Crusader said:
If you NEED Ruin then it is by definition a crutch. You don't need Ruin, there are plenty of streamers out there who can consistently win with any killer without ruin. However obviously not everyone is going to be at this level. That said, if you absolutely need Ruin on top tier killers like Billy or Nurse then chances are you're doing something wrong. Yoi shouldn't need it for them.There are two types of non-meme builds. One type compensates for a character's weaknesses. The second type pushes their strengths to the absolute limit.
It's not about what you need to use, it's about what you want to use. Do you want to cover your character's weaknesses, or do you want to amplify their strengths?1 -
But I thought you were all about balance?Orion said:@The_Crusader said:
If you NEED Ruin then it is by definition a crutch. You don't need Ruin, there are plenty of streamers out there who can consistently win with any killer without ruin. However obviously not everyone is going to be at this level. That said, if you absolutely need Ruin on top tier killers like Billy or Nurse then chances are you're doing something wrong. Yoi shouldn't need it for them.There are two types of non-meme builds. One type compensates for a character's weaknesses. The second type pushes their strengths to the absolute limit.
It's not about what you need to use, it's about what you want to use. Do you want to cover your character's weaknesses, or do you want to amplify their strengths?2 -
@The_Crusader said:
But I thought you were all about balance?How does that relate to what I said?
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@artist said:
I wasnt linking you interpreting what I said to you rereading it. I was saying if you thought about what I meant when I first said if you need ruin...
and yeah I've definitely held my own against swf playing as someone as bad as doctor. I couldnt have done it without ruin tho !!
That's why I choose to only read the lines and not between them, at least in this forum. I would've made a jackass out of myself if I started calling you 'whatever names' if I had interpreted the rank doesn't matter comment.
In my case, I play with Billy, Myers, Huntress, Doc, and sometimes LF, Trapper and Clown. I don't use Ruin in anyone. And sometimes I manage to do well against those teams at R1, but there was one game I wasn't able to land a single hit with Billy when 3 gens popped. Game over by then. Maybe Ruin could've helped a bit in that particular match.
Bottomline, I don't think using Ruin in any killer would turn you into a bad player if you need it as part of your optimal setup to win. And certainly wouldn't flame anyone after the match for using it.
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@ScottJund said:
This is a really dumb argument because it assumes all perks have equal value, which they do not.This is a really dumb counter-argument because it assumes a crutch is only a crutch if it's very powerful, which it is not.
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when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
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You could take Billy and give him NOED, Ruin and an ebony mori. That's really making him strong.Orion said:@The_Crusader said:
But I thought you were all about balance?How does that relate to what I said?
But then wheres the fun in that? To me thats the "I can't stand losing" build.
Its like when you get 4 man SWF with BNP, instaheals, DS and all their meta perks.
Wheres the fun when the game is that easy?
But then maybe its just me. Im one of those rare people who prefers to play without NOED and to win the game normally.4 -
Ruin isn't broken. You basicly bet that survivors can't hit great skillchecks. If they do hit them atleast somewhat consistantly then what you are left with is the worst perk in the game.fedup said:when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
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Nobody hits great skill checks every single time. Not a single person. And if everyone fails even only two or three skill checks the entire game, thats still more game delay than every other game delay perk there is.ChesterTheMolester said:
Ruin isn't broken. You basicly bet that survivors can't hit great skillchecks. If they do hit them atleast somewhat consistantly then what you are left with is the worst perk in the game.fedup said:when something is broken youll get complaints about using it, its a videogames law.
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