Why is SB'ing to a pallet and not getting hit not the same as DH'ing to a pallet and not getting hit
SB - Sprint Burst
DH - Dead Hard
I've been seeing a lot of survivors running Sprint Burst and immediately preventing the first hit of a chase by making it to a pallet and looping it, how is this not seen as being the same as dead harding to a different pallet to not get hit? Either way both perks do exactly the same thing but at different stages of the chase, is Sprint Burst likely to see a change when people realise they aren't too dissimilar?
Comments
-
This argument was made by myself and several others prepatch. Same logic applies to lithe too. Any ability that aids the survivors is op and must be neutered. It should be obvious, survivors take perks to help us escape. When they work they are taken away or turned off in the end game.
15 -
erm... Dead hard is on command and Sprint Burst, if you wanna use it well you have to 99 ur exhaustion. Where if you press shift you instantly use it and where dead hard you can run and use it whenever u want
19 -
SB wastes way less time than DH, and also gets countered by multiple Killer Powers, unlike DH which countered multiple Killer Power (which it still does, but less effectively, and to less Powers)
13 -
Can you activate SB as an oh ######### button or in the middle of a chase? Well yes but you have to inconvenience yourself, set it up before hand and basically be useless to your team while its set up. Also if i blink right on top of you or take a nice shot with Gunslinger or Huntress, SBing for distance wont help you much, or at all.
Also wow it didnt take much for people to cry about SB, survivors were right about that lol
4 -
Chase to a SB user:
Survivors use SB, Killer either abandon them before the chase even start, no sec wasted. Or start a real chase with them, 30sec hit once, 30sec hit twice, down. Chase over.
Chase to a DH user:
Killer start chase with them, 30sec hit once, 30sec DH instead of hit twice, that this point, too much time wasted, Killers cant abandon chase because its will be a total waste, they have to commit
Further more, DH allows Survivors to pallet greed
The feeling of your download bugged at 5% (wep, I can go to another site to down load this), and the feeling of your download bugged at 99%
5 -
- You need to time it, it's not just a "press X to get out of jail" card
- Killers with ranged attacks can straight out ignore it if good enough
- It doesn't give I-frames so you can't use it as a dumb counter to literally everything in the game
In short; It actually requires some level of skill and it offers some serious counterplay. It is a good perk, but not as annoying or unfair as DH.
4 -
Because SB and also Lithe and the like, have precise activation conditions. DH was on demand, you could use it far more effectively, and it gave distance at no cost to yourself. It was never designed for distance, it was designed to be a dodge mechanic.
0 -
It gives me a choice.
I can observe that a Survivor is using SB and simply choose not to invest that time and return at a later point.
When a Survivor had DH, I would invest time in getting a hit, out-skill them for a down and have my time investment extended due to E.
7 -
Why do I need to time it?
I sit on gen, killer comes towards me, I walk away a little, then as he closes in I sprint burst away to the first pallet preventing the first hit.
Same for DH, I'm injured, killer closes in or I won't make the next loop, dead hard, preventing the second hit.
0 -
involves limiting yourself and requires multiple brain cells to use correctly
2 -
Dead hard did what sprintburst does while also giving endurance meaning if you mess up there's still a chance you get a speed boost from getting hit without getting downed. It was a bit of a win win scenario when injured. The only bad thing about using it was messing up. I don't necessarily think perks should have downsides but when they are as strong as say hex perks or movement perks for survivors there should be some cost. As others mentioned sprint burst has a bit of a difficulty to use properly without wasting it, making it preferable in killers eyes. I will be the first to admit though that the time should be buffed to a second like in the ptb.
0 -
Old Dead Hard didn't give endurance, no speed boost or protection, if you were "hit" during dead hard due to either lag or incredibly poor timing you would go down, but never would you get a boost.
2 -
Sb gives more time like 40s or 50s before you can get first hit if the chase would last 30s without it. Dh usually gave 5-10s extra time but in hand of good survivor it sometimes gave extra 30s maybe more.
0 -
???
How is it possible that SB delays the first hit by 50 seconds? It should be like, 20 at most.
2 -
Dead hard had invincibility frames. You could deny almost every killer power.
1 -
SB run will not be like this
But like this
The distance is usually shorter than people think it should be
2 -
This completely depends on where the killer is coming from and where the survivor wants to run to.
2 -
Sprint Burst takes skill.
4 -
Huh weird I could have sworn it did. Granted as you mentioned lag could play a factor and it took me a while to fix the lag when I played dbd (not even sure what caused it I just remember trying a bunch of stuff until it stopped lagging). But that still means that dead hard did what sprint burst did while also not requiring as much. You could still sprint and see if it was actually necessary, with sprint burst you have to manage your exhaustion so you don't use it accidentally. Hard? yes, but considering you basically get a potential escape from a down it's worth it. Dead hard didn't make you ask those questions, only "Am I sure that if I use this I can prolonge chase until I get the ability back?" Which doing for 40 seconds when you know you have a pallet or window coming up isn't a hard sell.
0 -
Dead hard being used in a way people minded was mid chase. Sprint burst activates as soon as you sprint so when people use it mid chase it's usually by not walking until needed or keeping exhaustion at around 99 percent and letting it finish for the perk to activate when they need more speed in a sprint.
0 -
It is a matter of expectations.
Unless you manage to 99% your sprint burst, the killer is going to learn you have it very early while you are still healthy and the Killer is still expecting to need to chase you.
Dead Hard as a contrast comes out at what looks like is going to be the end of chase. The Killer has already invested enough time to chase you, get an injury, continue chase, expect to get a down and then get robbed by your exhaustion perk.
2 -
It's a matter of context and agency imo
You see a survivor Sprint Burst, now you know about it and can decide to commit or not
With DH you'd chase a survivor and at any point during the chase, if they were injured they COULD dh. Due to the nature of the perk unless you saw them do something exhaustion related already you had to always assume it was there which led to the whole 'wait for DH' thing.
Sprint Burst isn't the only perk that you can use to avoid an early hit in a chase, but DH felt like it robbed you of a hit in the middle of chase if you see what I mean
Unless the survivor is really good at managing their exhaustion (Which is tricky to do and easy to mess up) then SB is usually reserved purely for the start of chase, not the middle
I don't think Sprint Burst will be changed.
0 -
- Does not give I-frames and no collision, you can't SB through a killer back to the pallet or through a hit after they outplay you.
- Does not give you I-frames to go through hatchets, blight rushes, ect.
- Requires you to play around it. If you want to 99 your SB, you can't work on a gen that whole time its on 99, you have to keep it there. If you don't want to risk using it early, you need to walk. DH was always up when you needed it with no effort.
- Killer can leave a survivor who SB from a gen, then come back before the timer is up and know they don't have it. DH was always used/up when you were already committed and in a chase.
That's just off the top of my head.
2 -
In what world does sprinting to a pallet when the killer comes towards skilful? I literally just press shift
0 -
I guess you still have to loop the pallet, with no DH or other exhaustion perk you have to rely on fundemental survivor looping
Which is much fairer and interactive for the killer
It's not just a Sprint Burst thing, survivors pre-running to safety as soon as the killer is about to get close has the same effect in a way
0 -
Someone never played as Killer against good Survivors.
Don't worry, you'll get good at some point, maybe not actually, it's apparently too hard for you to escape without DS during end-game
1 -
That's not the correct use of Sprint Burst.
0 -
How else would I use sprint burst if I'm on a generator and a killer comes to you? You can't 99 sprint on a generator, lol.
0 -
It's not, and SB is just as unhealthy as DH. You have absolutely zero fear of the killer, you can greedily sit on that gen as long as possible, then freely SB to your pre-determined safe spot. In fact, it turns a deadzone into a safer area since you often have an open sight to an approaching killer, too.
It has the downside of having to walk, sure, but Lithe has the downside of requiring a vault, Head On has the downside of requiring time and proper timing, BL has the downside of requiring height. DH's requirement was that you were injured, and since everyone gets injured eventually, well, it didn't have a downside.
At the end of the day dealing with SB isn't frustrating. You don't feel robbed, you don't feel annoyed, you don't feel they were really rewarded for outplaying you, or playing indirectly greedy. It doesn't severely impact a chase.
0 -
I would argue if you tried to blink right on top of me while I had sprint burst 99 you would get torched by the distance or the speed of being able to fake one way then the other for even more distance, you must be playing against some really bad survivors if they can't even use a 99 sprint burst to force a situation exactly like old dead hard, or to even force a nurse to waste a blink, the only way that's gonna work out in favor of the nurse is if the survivor is bad and never looks behind them and instead just runs without knowing which way the nurse is setting the blink.
0 -
Exactly? SB has always had actual meaningful limitations to its usage requirements, the skill always came from planning and when to have it available and when to keep it at low exhaustion timer. You would have to adjust your efficiency to manipulate that. That said there's nothing wrong with using it to deny the first hit instead of prolonging chases, still plenty solid usage. However, it will always be bigger to prevent a down and extend a chase there than it is to prevent a first hit, especially vs killers like legion who have a much easier time with the first health state than the last (though it still can help a lot with preventing that first hit, of course.) As others have mentioned, time commitment starts to become more of a factor at that point, so being able to extend chases when you know they're gonna stick with it gives a lot more value to each second wasted.
0 -
You could argue it but thats not how it works. If im too far away on first blink aka not on top of you AND dont have a 2nd blink, sure, fair play. Best thing you can do against nurse with sb is probably just book it as soon as you see her and hope she doesnt have range addons to blink half a map away.
Funnily enough best exhaustion vs nurse is probably still DH
0 -
This is the most basic use of SB and not what makes it powerful.
What makes it really strong is when a skilled survivor can keep their exhaustion at 99 during a chase, have the killer commit and then SB away without warning. This is truly a skillful use that rewards you in a very powerful way, that, nevertheless has counters.
If you are not doing this with your sprint burst, it makes sense that you don't think it needs timing, but it also means you're not using the perk to its utmost potential, which is indeed quite high.
0 -
I don't think DH was nerfed because of being too strong but the frustation attached to going against it. SB is used at the beginning of the chase and the killer can decide whether or not he wants to take that it. DH on the other hand is always used when the survivor is about to go down, you can literally feel the time the perk wastes on the killer side. It kind of reminds me of Old Deathslinger in the sense he was never too strong, but going against him felt miserable.
0 -
We we can agree to disagree then because I'll guarantee you that I'm saving the 99 sb until you're right about to hit me and using it to dodge the swing and force fatigue I'm not just gonna mindlessly run straight while you blink on top of me , I've got thousands of hours of game time into nurse and I'll go ahead and say trying to blink on top of survivors is not how you do well with nurse that's how people end up getting juked, it's a very beginner state of mind to have that strategy but again this is all just my opinion and we're all entitled to have one
0 -
You can still delete this. Lol
0 -
now what is this comparison?
next we're gonna want to nerf sb and all other exhaustion perks because we can't have exhaustion perks in the meta.
0 -
No idea. I've been a SB enthusiast for a while and almost always have it 99'd if it's not up. A 99'd SB is 10x more distance than a DH for distance.
0 -
I'm not going to pretend to be some master Nurse, im below average in my opinion but there are plenty of times when its correct to try to 1 blink a survivor. Hell sometimes its correct to not even wait for 2nd charge after an injure and just go for a down.
0 -
while you can 99% a Sprint Burst its a rather rare occurence and very advanced skill. Most survivors will just have a Sprint Burst ready when they work on a gen, or they will have to Nancy-walk everywhere, which in itself should give the killer all the value they could ever want from a survivor perk.
So, ruling out 99%ed Sprint Burst, all other exhaustion perks got a certain activation requirement and can't be used in any situation at any given moment just when you need them the most. Of the regular exhaustion perks I think Lithe is the one with the easiest activation requirement, hence its so popular, but you normally gotta use it on the first opportunity in a loop. You can sometimes get away with slowvaulting your first window if you spot the killer early, but after that your next vault will set off your Lithe and you gotta make the best use out of it.
And now the killer can make a decision: do they want to chase after you, now that you gained distance but are exhausted, or do they break chase and write the 10-15s off as a loss? DH had this completely reversed: you had to expect everyone to have it, so you wasted often some time to bait it out, and survivors could use it the moment when it was needed the most in a variety of ways: dash towards a distant vault or palette for distance, cover for a mistake made, if caught in a bad spot dash through the killer and try to bamboozle them, dash through Trappers traps and a good amount of other powers etc. A well placed DH was used at the end of a long and tiresome chase and invalidated all that time the killer spend on that chase and often left them with nothing but a big, phat chunk of time wasted and a gen or two popping inth their face soon after. It was disheartening and left the sour taste in your mouth that a lot of times you outplayed the survivors, but they just got this super power that let them escape scott free.
So no, I will never complain in earnest about any other exhaustion perk. I might do it in an anecdotal way, like "oof ... today was a tought one. I got a match with 4 SB, lol, and another were they just always balanced landed out of my reach. What a day ...", but not "Hur dur, nerf Lithe and Spring Burst next! Everyone is using them!!!111".
0 -
Yes of course I won't argue with that but I'm specifically talking about a 99 sprint burst against a nurse trying to blink on top of you, it's a risky gamble that may or may not pay off and if it doesn't you might as well abandon the chase and go for a new survivor than try to blink your way back into a chase with all that distance between you and the survivor, I'm not the best nurse by any means but I'm very confident in my ability with her and against her due to going in KYF with good nurse mains alot and practicing, i have a feeling once people start getting used to SB it will become the next dead hard but I could be totally wrong about that and knowing BHVR they'll probably release a game breaking perk that replaces dead hard in the next patch and make people not even think about SB
0 -
Yeah its brutal when that happens. Even more brutal when you commit to 2nd blink and miss.
And the thought of a new busted exhaustion perk is the most brutal of them all : D
0 -
99ing sprint burst is a very advanced skill? lmao what.
0 -
Lol I'm telling you watch and see, everytime in the history of this game that BHVR has done a noticeable nerf on survivor, the next chapter always follows with a busted survivor perk that makes up the difference, it's like they try to adjust the game to be able to handle the bullshit theyre about to release I really am expecting some game breaking perks next chapter
1 -
Can you give examples of this?
0 -
Because there were a lot of situations with Dead Hard where you were already midchase and in a loop and the Dead Hard allowed you to get another full loop out of it by reaching a vault you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. Spirint Burst is good for having extra distance at the start of a chase which is definitely useful but Dead Hard was much more flexible. Also you’re not invulnerable while Sprint Bursting so the killer can still hit you if you are too close or they have a ranged attack, unlike the old Dead Hard.
0 -
Well, of course you could just use your Sprint Burst and then 99% it and just run around the map until you bump into the killer, but what were the use of that? But using a 99% effectively? Thats quite rare and takes some forsight and planning.
0 -
Think about it and go look back into patch notes from a few years back and scan over it and see for yourself, anytime survivors have received a noticeable nerf or change the following chapter always has a new perk that would've been broken with the old way, kinda like old mettle of man, Ds was reworked at that time and it was one of the most complained about perks on the forum
0 -
So you have one example, after which MoM was nerfed significantly into oblivion, what was the ridiculous perk after MoM... nothing? Oh right, so one coincidence = the entire history of dbds patch notes, lmao. (MoM lasted 14 days btw, thank god survivors got that perk they'd have to pay for to make up for the permanent DS change)
0 -
Dead hard was baited out lot of times or you get the survivor anyway when they didn't use it optimally but that's not the whole truth. Sprint burst definetely is more consistent you always get distance.
0
