http://dbd.game/killswitch
Knock Out should be changed to not encourage slugging
This Dredge started the match with everyone in the dark on the Game map. Very quickly he knocked 2 people down, couple of times I was able to find and pick them up but he very quickly downed them again. Once 2 bled out because they'd been on the ground for 4 minutes he used the 3rd to find me after leaving her slugged for almost 4 minutes. He then slugged me until just before I bled out, that is when he decided to hook me. 0 gens were completed. He didn't even attempt to hook anyone once.
Knockout did not need its first buff, it definitely did not need its second buff. While the insta-mori that's coming would've prevented me from getting slugged for 4 minutes it would not have prevented the slugging until bleed out of my 3 teammates.
If you're not going to do anything to stop killers ability to slug players for 4 minutes until they bleed out then ATLEAST don't give them a perk like Knock Out that encourages it. Knock Out could do the same thing (block their aura to other survivors, make them blind, and make them recover slower from status effects like exhaustion) it does now BUT to injured survivors instead until they are healed/downed.
Comments
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Can't you just run unbreakable?
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Unbreakable wouldn't have helped. He was standing over me as he slugged me. Even if I ran Unbreakable he would've immediately downed me and continued slugging me for the 3 minutes 59 seconds.
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There's nothing wrong with slugging. In fact if anything I'm always surprised when someone complains about being slugged because at least when you're slugged you can move around and try and get to a better position, and if a survivor comes in for a rescue then as long as you've healed yourself as much as possible they can instant tap you to get you off the ground. And unlike hooks if you get downed and get back up the killer hasn't directly gotten much closer to killing you.
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Did you read my post? That the killer was running Knock Out and I couldn't find my slugged teammates? The times I did find them he knocked them back down again quickly after to continue slugging. He bled them out, never once hooking, even though no gens were completed. Then he slugged me as last survivor for nearly the entire 4 minutes before hooking me - there was no possible rescue for me, my entire team was bled out. Do you really not understand why someone would complain about slugging in this situation?
I get you always defend slugging but you can't really think slugging an entire team until bleed out at 5 gens and waiting until last survivor is almost bled out before finally hooking them is OK?
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the perk your looking for is soulguard, soulguard gives you an endurence effect whenever you are picked up on the floor. unbreakable+soulguard can counter that situation, alternatively, looping better to prevent being slugged requires no perks.
that last part is somewhat problematic. your making errors as survivor and yet your not get punished because its very unlikely that the killer will deplete all 4 minutes of slug out timer. survivors can pick themselves up infinitive amount of times with little no drawback which it is not as common for a killer to slug as it is for a killer to camp and tunnel hook-states. Its also why Twins tends not be played very much as killer because she is so inefficient at hooking and slugging is not very effective as strategy overall. I feel like survivors should get punished for being slugged and pick-up off the floor by losing 25% of their death timer since currently survivors rarely ever threatened by slugging as a whole and rarely consider the anti-slugging perks.
I think the fact that every trial for survivor comes with expectation of camping and tunneling hooks is part of reason why the game feels stale because there is lack of dynamic win conditions. if slugging was prominent(i.e the killer would get rewarded for slugging), there would be more dynamic trials and we might see more dynamic perks used on the survivor side and perhaps more dynamic perks used on killer side to reinforce a particular play-style.
Maybe certain perks like No mither could use rework/buff so it isn't just complete meme perk.
basically slugging is somewhat is unexplored in dbd and exploring it might lead to fresh new gameplay experiences.
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Yeah, I read your post. Who cares if no gens were completed? Again, slugging is a perfectly valid way to apply pressure or even to win.
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Well you do get punished as a survivor if you get slugged, just potentially not as much as if you get hooked. Slugging is basically a tradeoff between not securing a hook state in order to save yourself about 10 seconds of time getting into a new chase. If you slug too much and you're not careful you can end up losing since survivors can revive each other pretty quickly when you're not nearby and still be working on gens potentially same as when someone is hooked. And in fact because it takes 4 minutes to time out as a slugged survivor versus 2 minutes as a hooked survivor you might potentially be giving survivors more total time to do gens unless you're cashing in some of those down as hooks.
That's why my preferred strategy is to hook one or two survivors and slug the others. It focuses my carrying time on only one or two targets to help eliminate them more quickly while still giving me extra time to get into new chases after downs. I hardly ever bother trying to do a full four person slug for the win since it can be kind of risky and backfire pretty easily. But, hey, if a killer can manage to do it more power to them!
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Unbreakable with Soul Guard only works once when not hexed, and hex totems generally don't stay up for Soul Guard to work more than once. And again, I was LAST survivor after my teammates were all bled out, hatch was closed, the only thing using those perks would've done was slightly prolonged my time in match before the killer downed me again and continued slugging me until just before bleed out.
The point of no gens were done is that he won so slugging everyone until bleed out was not necessary for his win or to put on pressure. He could've just hooked everyone instead of bleeding them out for 4 minutes. He could've immediately hooked me as last survivor instead of standing over me waiting for me to almost bleed out before finally hooking me. Knock Out making it so a killer can slug all 4 survivors at once because they can't find eachother and the killer just bleeds them out for 4 minutes should not be a thing.
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well yeah the way to utilizing slugging currently is to hook a survivor and than slug another survivor. that's what I do.
The way I do it is I find a survivor, slug them, finding another survivor. if the first survivor is still slugged, you can pick up either previous or current survivor downed, hook them then bring other survivor to the hook and camp them.
now your camping a slugged survivor and a survivor is hooked. if your a killer that excels at camping & slugging, you can consistently trade a survivor that is unhooked and also re-slug survivors that are under the hook. for example twins can re-slug people with victor and can prevent unhooks with incapacitated status effect. huntress can re-slug survivors easily with her hatchets and she has excellent hook defense because of her m2->m1 combo hook trade and many other killer can excel at this gameplay
I think recently, maybe like 5-6 months ago, they nerfed slugging. previously, if you drop a survivor, the hook progress used to regress when a survivor was on the floor. now it does not regress. so once you drop a survivor, you can't pick them up. they'll wiggle off. still slugging in this form is very effective as it reduces the survivor's generator efficiency by 200%(50% of total team).
The other way to utilize slugging is to slug all 4 survivors. this will not happen against competent teams in most cases unless your killer is extremely powerful at the chase(I.E nurse). 4 man slugging not very common and incredibly difficult to achieve consistently without nurse. The more common gameplay when it comes to slugging and 1 hooking is to camp->tunnel a single survivor out of the game so that only 3 survivor remain, then to slug 2 survivors leaving a single alive. If you can locate last survivor while both survivors are on the floor, you can 1 hook last 3 survivors.
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Slugging is basically a tradeoff between not securing a hook state in order to save yourself about 10 seconds of time getting into a new chase.
Slugging without camping hooks is currently rewarding for survivor. you are rarely ever in danger as survivor from bleeding out. Your team really has to mess up for you to get bleed out as survivor. its also why a perk like knock out and third seal is not really globally used by many killers. The blindness itself is completely ineffective against 4 man swf and only really works against solo players. 4 man slugging is even less likely to occur. your team really has to mess up for that to happen with 4 survivors alive. Its more likely with 3 but you still need make mistakes as survivor to get into that position.
This is why you do not really see slugging that much on killer side. its not very rewarding. I think this is the reason why Twins that supposedly only excels at the gameplay is not played that much. it's difficult to play for most players and its not particularly too rewarding even if your good at it(although dev say that twins are monsters apparently).
well being bleed out counts as getting killed, so the killer can choose to kill you this way. some survivors see it as being toxic, i usually just see as total waste of time. just take loss and move on.
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I never facecamp hooks, it's a pretty inefficient use of time for the most part. I do slug though to keep only one survivor on a gen at a time at most. Like I said, the trick is hooking one or two people out. The object of slugging the other survivors isn't to force them to bleed out, it's to keep them off the gens while you focus on the main targets you actually want to hook three times. If someone does happen to bleed out so be it but that's not the actual reason to do it.
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I can't stop laughing at his build
He brought Thrill and Undying purely to spite boon users
There's something about it that makes me just laugh
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I don't see real point. your commit chase time to slug people just to not hook them? then commit to other chases on survivor that your looking to kill in which are your hooking. that just sounds like really slow and indirect way to tunnel people out of the game.
The only way reason I can see you doing this is to avoid decisive strike. I can totally see this on pre-nerf decisive strike and I'm not talking about latest change decisive strike, I'm talking about the decisive strike before the many conditions were put to disable decisive strike.
I can completely understand where this post is coming from because I used to do what your describing a long time ago as killer, but in my new post-mmr experience, that strategy is not really that effective. It often just leads you to throw away hook-states.
that's why I think slugging is just extension to camping. proxy camping slug and face-camp hooks. mindlessly slugging by itself just is not really that strong of a strategy in my opinion. its simply not rewarding and as result, the perks that empower slugging(on killer side) and the perks that weaken it on survivor side are pretty much pointless in their current iteration of the game.
that's also why for example, when they changed boil over, people complained about the perk because the perk encourage slugging because it prevents you from getting to the hook and that's largely because getting slugged as survivor is rewarding. Not punishing. There is no penalities for picking another survivor up and your unlikely to die through bleed out. you just save hook-states if you can force killer to slug excluding the hook camp+slugging technique described in my previous post.
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You're not "throwing away" a hook state, you're intentionally trading it off for faster time getting into a new chase against a more desirable target. Not all hook states are equal, getting a second or third hook state on a single survivor is worth way more than getting one hook each on two or three different survivors.
And yes, the goal is to "tunnel" someone out of the game. But it's a way to do it that actually maintains pressure on the other survivors to stay off the gens in the process, plus gives you the opportunity to possibly get two hooks on a second survivor if the circumstances permit.
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Slugging to bleed out is not "Apply pressure" its being an ass
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oh your like old me. wonderful
you definitely are throw away hook-states. its because the killer's time is 4x more valuable than survivor's time. the extra chases you take is time that survivor team can use to do generators. the only time they waste is for slug is going to pick up the slug. bleed timer are so long that you're very unlikely to die to them. the time it takes for a survivor to pick a survivor up is very little in comparison to the time it takes for the killer to down a survivor especially if the survivor is skilled at the chase.
it only takes somewhere between 5-15 seconds to hook a survivor and by pushing more survivors into their death hook, they're more likely to play passive and you have more chances to find death hook survivors the more survivors on the team are on death hook. I can go off-topic and talk about why spine chill was 20% pick-rate perk at higher mmr in charts & stealth is powerful and why BBQ aura reading is powerful in relationship to this but we'll skip details to this.
going back to the topic, you can instead of wasting time on individual chases just return directly to the hook and chase the unhooked survivor. Technically this used to be more punishing because of decisive strike, but decisive strike has received some negatives that makes less damaging for killers to tunnel survivors off hooks. You'll still have to deal with OTR though.
What I'm saying is that you'd kill survivors way quicker if you were more direct and skipped slugging time sink. although be aware that many killers are not that strong in 1vs1 unless they're high-tier/strong.
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