I Think People Are Missing The Point Of 6.1.0.
While there are a few things that probably need to be tweaked (put DS back to 5 seconds, Nurse needs a look), the major argument seems to boil down to 'I'm not escaping as much as I was'.
That...is the point of the patch.
BHVR has access to data we don't.
According to them, kill rates weren't high enough.
They thus adjusted them by buffing killers.
Naturally, you won't be escaping as much as before!
Comments
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Idk. I'm not having fun even if I'm escaping, especially if the killer throws on a bunch of gen slowdown perks. Gens need to go back to 80 seconds, tunneling/camping needs to be looked at and maybe a few changes to some of the recently changed perks on both sides (DS, SC, Overcharge, etc). I'll be happy if they at least do those things. Longer gen times are killing it for me... it's just sooo boring.
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Death Garden’s Scavdngers couldn’t survive either and Oops! Where is that game?
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I mean they wanted to shake up the meta and increase the kills on average. You could just introduce a new killer perk that deactivates all your other perk but puts all the survivors into the dying state at the beginning of the trial. EVERYONE would be running that and most games would be even more of a 4k than they already are. Just because you achieve your stated goal, doesn't mean you made the game fun or balanced.
In regards to SoloQ, the devs overnerfed survivors, especially their ability to combat tunneling and camping. These need HUGE buffs without making basic M1 killers useless again.
Also, map balancing, MMR, killer ability/addon strengths are still huge parts of the balancing of this game and these were completely neglected.
This patch honestly should have come in piece meal and they should have monitored the stats to stop when the killrates reach the point where they are satisfied. But no, lets just completely change everything and then untangle this mess in the next five years! Pretty good job so far.
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Exactly. I've said this before the patch even released. They changed too many things at one time and the game is a mess.
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BHVR adjusted the game in an attempt to ensure survivors die more often, then increased the number of Bloodpoints rewarded for escaping to make sure survivors are also super salty about it.
BHVR makes winning more difficult (also makes it more boring by increasing gen times), and not only doesn't do anything to soften the blow of bad games (de-pipping is still a thing) but makes losing feel worse by rewarding a larger chunk of BP for surviving and getting rid of WGLF stacks.
I start up the game and play one match of survivor and already feel so done with it for the day. I don't expect to win, I'd just like the act of playing the role to be fun.
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I like the killer buffs and most of Survivor nerfs to perks.
However I think many decent / good killers can now stack so many slowdowns and also tunnel and camp much easier. Slowdown powers are even more tedious and boring to VS that overall it killed most of fun for me as Survivor.
Example: Legion on it's own is weak killer and even with strong build he might not be OP or something but OMG the TEDIOUS level of playing againts it. Slowdown power + slowdown perks + slowdown addons on top of base longer gens. Who wants to play againts that?!
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If you're playing against good survivors that are sticking on gens like they normally do, you won't even notice that the game was ever changed from how it was before. The gens get done just as fast. 2 to 3 gens done by 1 hook is pretty much the norm at high MMR
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Good for you, that makes like 1% of the playerbase out there. For the other 99% of survivors, we are all dead before 1 gen now.
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That's also only 1% of the playerbase, called "The Bad Players"
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I think the main issue is whilst they did shake up the meta for survivor they didnt even touch killer to much.
Yes we got a ton of regression nerfs (basicly no good regression perks now) but other than that not much changed.
I think what this patch has done is force killers to be more tunnel/camp because they don't have those regression perks anymore that are effective so the effective strat now is to get 1 person out of the game as quick as you can.
This in turn makes the game infinitly harder for survivors.
In my games I have noticed that I am 4king a lot more now and although im not a bad killer im not the greatest either. Some people i go against have 4k hours in the game and they are just failing mainly because of the huge meta nerf survivors recieved.
6.1.0 brought very little possitive from what i could see. The only thing that was positive for me was the dead hard nerf because i no longer have 4 DH per lobby.
The new prestige system forcing you to prestige - Very Bad
the over nerf of killers regression perks - Bad
the death of self care - Bad
the nerf to the ds stun timer - Bad
The huge buff Nurse got because of the changes - Bad
The over powered off the record buff - Bad (agree with the perk don't agree with how strong it is)
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Or they could just remove killers entirely and have you play against bots?
How about we stop strawmanning?
Let's be honest here, Knight. This isn't true. You wouldn't be happy, because you were complaining before the patch - I could swear you said you quit.
The gen nerfs were to balance out the regression nerfs.
If you put gens back to 80, you have to buff those perks again.
Yes, both sides have stuff that is annoying to face.
Either you don't know how a bell curve works, or you're exaggerating.
I agree that pipping and getting BP should be easier as survivor.
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Guess you didn't face too many pre-mades running Bonesaw and Ghost for ranged revive spam and active camo spam.
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I can't seem to have matches where one of my friends (or me) isn't tunneled out at 5 gens remaining.
Or put in basement and facecamped.
As far as I am able to see, all they did was nerf Survivors ability to counter some very anti-fun Killer strategies while simultaneously making gens take longer.
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The kill rate is increased, I think it’ll end up being like a 7% increase or something when the dust settles, but I agree, people who say you can’t escape in solo queue are being hyperbolic. As long as you play well and don’t rage quit after the first couple of downs you have a good chance of 2-4 escapes at the end.
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Rage quit how about the ones sabotaging survivor games by actively seeking out the killer, not doing gens, or just saying "Take me now Entity" and letting themselves die on hook
Last week out of the 75 rescues I attempted to do 68 just let themselves die on hook. Most of the time I was the only one doing any gens.
I'll be seeing if the dust has settled a bit this weekend when I play....but my hopes are not very high
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Yeah there were a lot of quitters last week. This week seems milder. I don’t even think I had a rage quit the last three days. (I only play a few matches a night though so it’s not statistically relevant, just an anecdotal observation.)
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The only nerf in this department was DS, and yeah - that was a silly nerf.
Camping - that needs a fix, but it's a hard one to fix without breaking the game.
Tunneling...you sort of have to work around as a team. There's a lot of anti-tunnel perks that can't really be buffed much more.
If that. I'd reckon...maybe 5%. And that will likely fall another point or so as people adapt.
It's already getting better, to be honest.
There is definitely a conversation to have here about how this game needs stronger penalties for quitters.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
The patch is like throwing a bomb into a wood to chop some trees.
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DS nerf, DH nerf, built in STBFL, half of Brutal Strength, less distance on hit make it difficult to do anything about the most frustrating Killer strategies that aren't needed anymore.
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There are two problems I have with the changes
1. Camping and tunneling.
No one can argue that camping and tunneling didn't get buffed this patch. With the additional 50 seconds total on gens plus other slowdown perks buffed doing gens take too long. And because of that the killer has no problem with camping and tunneling to get easier wins. Even if you don't tunnel or get tunneled often the potential to do do is still there. And to handle this issue survivor got a miniscule 5 seconds bt. Thats not really going to help. I'm convinced that if a killer runs multiple slowdowns and camp and tunnel they are always going to win. Because what else can the survivors do??
2. Meta change
I'm greatly disappointed by the meta change. Sure survivors got off the record to deal with tunneling but the issue I have is that we are still having to bring perks to deal with base game issues that should have been fixed with the patch. Otr is just ds under a different name which I would argue is arguably worse them ds. Not to mention alot (but not all) the other survivor perk buffs did nothing to increase usage since the buffs either did nothing or made the perks worse. I want to experiment more with different perks not have the same perks over and over again. And sure the meta might be slightly different now but how long until the meta gets stale again?
The other changes I'm fine with but these are the issues I have with it
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I mostly complained about tunneling/camping (which got worse) and Blight with certain perks and addons. Yeah, I'd be happy with the changes I mentioned. I didn't know I couldn't visit the forums and complain if I no longer play. I'll keep coming back to complain until they make survivor fun to play.
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That's all fine and well, but the *why* of it feels problematic. *Why* am I not escaping as much?
It's perks. Killers haven't become better. I'm losing to killers who don't know how to run an L/T wall. They get bloodlust 2 after 25 seconds and have 4 slowdowns. The balance changes don't feel organic. This patch is less about rewarding the skill of one side than it is about making the skill of the other side not matter. That's how it feels.
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Of all the changes they made, the bloodlust ones are the most nonsensical
Bloodlust as a mechanic is already the most bandaid thing in the game, so making it easier to get just baffles me.
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I just dont understand how they went from testing if it should be removed to buffing it.
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It has to be maps, it's the only explanation that makes sense as to why they buffed it.
Like haddonfield, rpd and eyrie, instead of changing them just make bloodlust better. I know RPD is being reworked but the others aren't
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If the point of 6.1. was making survivor experience unfun and discouraging, it's done a pretty good job so far.
Last I checked, the game had optional content for survivors to do : totems, chests, glyphs. Now, anything else than doing gens ensures a loss.
In their crusade against genrushing, they sacrificed the other aspects of the game and made the experience overall unpleasant for a lot of people.
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Playing killer is like playing hello kitty super cute adventures now
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Huh so I'm in the worst 1% of players getting iridescent 1 two months in a row on survivor. I'm pretty mediocre, but I'm certainly not the worst by a long shot. Yet vast majority of my games, about half being swf we are lucky to get even 1 Gen now. It is just comical how fast we can die with these changes. At least most games take less than 5 mins now.
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I don't get upset at people DCing and Suiciding-on-hook when the patch is this unfair. A 6 year old can get on and get free kills now with the developer added training wheels they added to the Killer side. The entire Killer side is now Dead Hard. I just can't respect the killer role when it's just given free kills by the developer. At least with Dead Hard, survivors were still losing with a 45% escape rate.
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I get it on a certain level. Because they have to balance maps for all skill levels of survivor and all skill levels of killer. That's a tall order. Because a map like Cowshed might be balanced for low level survivors, broken for high level survivors, somehow manageable for an elite killer, terrible for an average killer, etc. A lot of maps go either way.
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You're lucky to get 1 Generator done? My bad, 0.1%
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"put ds back to 5 seconds."
I think you're missing the point of 6.1 because they wanted the meta perks to change. Not still be DS but DS feels slightly worse, because they've tried that about 50 times and everyone still runs DS. They want it to feel bad enough that you actually use a different perk.
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the devs argue with to low killrates, just to make clear: 50/50 means a killer get on average 2 (or more) kills and on survivor side 2 of 4 escapes. That means a solo q survivor had already just a chance of 25% to escape. If the killer gets more than 2 kills the survivors escaperate is lower. Now the devs buffed killers and a solo q expierience get worse… on top the games are more unfun.
In my opinion the whole increase killrates is laughable!
The mmr is just bad and paires new killers with to good survivors = low killrate
Mainsurvivor try their archives challenges and doesn’t care for kills = low killrates
In the past I recognized mostly fair and hard matches if the matchmaking was good. But to often the mmr doesn’t work!! Good killers had still a high killrate and now they can chill and get more easily their 4k and bad killers do the same just by tunnling, stacking slowdowns or camping.
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I've probably only played about 10-12 survivor games since the patch and 2 killer games, so very small sample size, but I agree. The game is less fun. Sure for the most part the games have not been terrible, save for a couple of games where there was an early suicide/DC. But it's just a little too slow paced for my liking. I would have preferred shorter gen times, but a secondary objective like finding parts to repair the gen. That would at least be a little bit of an interactive slow down.
I guess at that point it would almost have to be a new game, but I think a lot of what they've done in this update has limited interaction while making the boring part of the game (holding m1 on gens) the primary focus.
It's definitely a different game, and a bit less fun (so far) for me. Which is a part of the reason I'm just not playing it as much.
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the 5 second BT basekit does nothing against tunneling, if you got a basement bubba you ain't getting out of shack.
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That’s not how that works. In most pvp games, the best players have very high win rates because they are better than most. To make a game 50/50 would basically mean making it random. Skill should determine who wins, not arbitrary set odds.
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I have a suspicion that a significant portion of the people complaining are doing so due to a lack of willingness to adapt. For example, I still see posts talking about DS when OTR is now more effective than pre-patch DS was.
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In a game where you need four times more survivors than killers you probably shouldn't make the killer side easier than the survivor. 5 second stun DS and end game DS made it better than current OTR, it was just objectively stronger last patch than what we have now. You can adapt and still be weaker. I know what the meta builds are for both sides right now, I am still dying significantly more as survivor and basically one hand 4king as killer.
The patch is a disaster numbers wise, anyone claiming people are just whining and can't adapt need to stop brown nosing YouTube killer mains and start asking for them to fix the game before there isn't one left.
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So 2 perks for the same level of 1 old one? WOW so cool
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Or the other possibility is that a lot of the complaints are coming from people who can't adapt and, instead of adapting, simply wish to throw shade on forums.
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Which two perks? OTR is all I really need. It also works on both hooks.
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It doesnt work if the killer tunnels/camps since it doesnt stack with the useless 5second BT.
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It does work, that is correct. I don't see the correlation between that and not stacking with the 5 second BT.
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It doesnt*
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Ah okay, I see it was a typo and you edited it. I still don't see the correlation between that and not stacking with the 5 second BT. OTR is 80 seconds in duration, removes tracking information and I still get the haste buff from base BT. I'm able to get to a tile and delay the chase a lot longer than I could have on both hooks.
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Absolutely, at the highest levels, the games won't be balanced. That's why games should be balanced at the very least at 3 different levels of play. Lower play / Mid Play / High Play with the very highest and very lowest excluded similar to a bell curve.
So the largest number of players at 68.2% are balanced by itself. Then the Lowest 13.6% is balanced by itself. Finally the highest 13.6% is balanced by itself. Then you ignore the top and bottom 2.4% to get rid of all the anomalies (such as Otz type players).
Also, the skill levels of both killer players and survivor players bell-curves should overlap. So 68.2% of survivor players are paired and have a 50/50 chance to win against 68.2% of killer players. The same is true for the top 13.6% and bottom 13.6%
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Literally no one understands what this means.
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Some of us who had Stats/Research Methods courses in college do, but agreed it could have been a bit more fleshed out.
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Or it could have been simply stated
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Valid. I just like seeing the detailed and creative graphs and charts people come up with.
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